Road teams for Rio

dabber

I can't get too excited about the Olympic RR. With such a team sport having different size teams as a result of the 2015 country rankings doesn't seem a very even playing field.

andyp

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

That's rubbish. Cummings proved his worth as a team mate more than enough in the 2011 Worlds. He has a massive engine & he can climb.

As for Pete being giving a spot, he is inconsistent as hell, you NEVER know what you're going to get, never mind the fact that - HELLO - he is only just back on the turbo after his collarbone op

Cummings has known Ellingworth since he was a kid, he knows the sort of rider he likes and his way of doing things. If he wanted to be selected for Rio then conspicuously riding at the back of the peloton most races was a strange way to make his case.

What he does for his trade team, who pay his wages after all, should have little impact on whether or not he's selected for his national team should it? He's shown this year that he's got the form to go, and has shown previously that when asked to do a job for the national team, he's done it.

Turfle

If you pick Cummings it has to be to have a free role. If you pick him to do anything else then you're not only asking him to do something he openly doesn't like doing, but you're wasting his skillset.

RichN95.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Rich, at some point you might get that not every decision BC or Sky is 100%. I know it's tough.

Personally I would have picked him, but Ellingworth is the one picking the team not me. He has a type and Cummings isn't it.

RichN95.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

Ps Stevo wasn't one of Ellingworth's Academy protégées. He was a bit ahead of that

They go back further than that. They rode team pursuit together. Even won the nationals together in 2001.

salsiccia1

Dani King not going, and not happy about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36596186

spaceman147

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Dani King not going, and not happy about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36596186

Not happy at all according to that article!

daniel_b

spaceman147 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

Dani King not going, and not happy about it:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/36596186

Not happy at all according to that article!

That does seem completely nuts doesn't it, I can see why she would be angry about it, how can it make sense, and surely they should be able to back up their decisions somehow, or be made to?
I watched Emma Pooley in the Aviva tour, and it seemed like she was always languishing at the back.

She is the second highest-ranked British rider in the UCI Women's World Tour after Armitstead.

TheBigBean

The politics is one of things I dislike about the Olympics. A bit like when the British team refused to take Aaron Cook the then world number one in Taekwondo. The sports should allow such athletes to compete as independents.

Surely Cummings is the most likely to win out of those named. There are more tactics available than riding on the front all day. I always remember the British team's excellent example of riding for JTL so that Gilbert had a very easy win in 2012.

If the head honcho isn't picking riders to win a race, then it's time for someone new to come in.

salsiccia1

It's like the road guys at BC can only see one way of doing things. It's only ever worked on a pan-flat course with the best sprinter in the world, and it nearly went tits-up, even then.

If I was Dani King I would be devastated, being told to concentrate on the road, become GB's best rider not called Armitstead and then not get picked. It looks like more shabby treatment.

dish_dash

Pah, what do the experts at BC know? King and Cummings better off out...

gsk82

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

Omar Little

Seems a bit harsh on Cummings.

The womens team is harder to call - a good case can be made for Harris or King whereas i'm not sure Pooley has shown that much since her return. Will be easier to judge after the national TT i suppose.

Richmond Racer 2

gsk82 wrote:

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

Seems that way. Having said that....

It's horribly difficult for King, anyone can see that, especially after being told she wouldn't make the TP Rio squad, and having to refocus. And she's been riding really well all season.

Re Harris, Armitstead persuaded her to move from CX to road and ride with her this season at Boels Dolmans with a view to making the Rio team to support her. And Harris has shown pretty well for her in races this season, like Strade Bianchi

Difficult one.

Richmond Racer 2

dish_dash wrote:

Pah, what do the experts at BC know? King and Cummings better off out...

Pross

gsk82 wrote:

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

I don't think Dani has blamed 'everyone else'. She has said she's upset as she was told she needed to hit certain criteria which she did and instead they selected a rider who, whilst world class a few years ago, has opted not to take road racing seriously recently. I can understand her position and agree with her point. Has Pooley had to meet the same 9 points?

Turfle

Time will tell with that decision. If Pooley is still the rider she was 2/3 years ago then it would be lunacy to leave her out, and BC would be crucified for the decision.

They seem to have taken the risky pick in the women's team, and the safe pick in the men's team.

Richmond Racer 2

Pross wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

I don't think Dani has blamed 'everyone else'. She has said she's upset as she was told she needed to hit certain criteria which she did and instead they selected a rider who, whilst world class a few years ago, has opted not to take road racing seriously recently. I can understand her position and agree with her point. Has Pooley had to meet the same 9 points?

What is definitely wrong is that King is not allowed to appeal. I find that distasteful.

Pross

On the man's side of things to me Cummings and Yates would have been our best bets for a medal. Kennaugh fully fit and on form would have a chance. To me G is unlikely to win for the same reason I can't see him winning a monument - not quick enough to sprint from a small group and not powerful enough to ride off solo. I also don't see the need to have a leader and ride as a team. On a lumpy course and without having any of the main favourites it's surely better to be looking to get people in key moves and look to win from a small group surely? I really hope they aren't going to ride like a bunch of 4th cat bunch engines again.

andyp

gsk82 wrote:

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

I thought BC picked teams on form, not reputation. If that's the case then King has every right to feel aggrieved, as she has consistently shown she can compete with the best in the world on the road this season. Pooley, on the other hand, hasn't.

King was 11th last week in the Women's Tour, and second best Brit behind Armitstead. Pooley was 45th, and 8th best Brit. She has a lot to prove in the next 6 weeks.

Pross

andyp wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

Is the modern default position for British female cyclists to blame everyone else?

I thought BC picked teams on form, not reputation. If that's the case then King has every right to feel aggrieved, as she has consistently shown she can compete with the best in the world on the road this season. Pooley, on the other hand, hasn't.

King was 11th last week in the Women's Tour, and second best Brit behind Armitstead. Pooley was 45th, and 8th best Brit. She has a lot to prove in the next 6 weeks.

Even more than that, Pooley made a conscious decision to concentrate on triathlon / duathlon ahead of cycling in this season knowing that there was Olympic selection ahead due to obligations to her sponsors. That's a choice by a professional sportswoman and not something we can knock her for. However, it suggests that riding at the Olympics wasn't a priority whereas it obviously is to King and in that situation, all other things being equal, I would pick the one who was desperate to be there.

Mad_Malx

Turfle wrote:

.

They seem to have taken the risky pick in the women's team, and the safe pick in the men's team.

Is Anyone viewed as the protected men's rider?
Would Froome make the team if the TTer didn't have to be in the road too? (I'm doubting his one day ability, not his deserved gt status).

PuttyKnees

Surprised that no one has mentioned Weaver. I think she has more reason to be aggrieved - proven TTer and also competitive road results. Harris is a good pick though.

awavey

Omar Little wrote:

Seems a bit harsh on Cummings.

The womens team is harder to call - a good case can be made for Harris or King whereas i'm not sure Pooley has shown that much since her return. Will be easier to judge after the national TT i suppose.

which is why Im confused theyve picked the team before that and even before the Womens Tour it would seem...if I was a Team GB selector Id have said to the riders in the mix & dont forget Lucy Garner is only out of the running through the cracked ribs injury she picked up 2-3 weeks ago, go out do the Womens Tour as best you can support your teams, then do the nationals, and we'll pick the 2 remaining spots from how well you compete on those, because it puts the riders under the kind of self induced pressure to perform they need for the Olympics.

and Id agree Pooley hasnt shown that much form since her return, and certainly last week at the womens tour though Id accept TeamGB disintegrated around her for various reasons that arent necessarily anyones fault or within their control, they were lacklustre. But in 2014 she lone attacked and kept attacking on the final stage without any team support and I didnt see alot of that last week, Id thought at least a stage win was possible, and it was shown lone attackers who werent GC contenders were allowed alot of license to go try that route if they could.

I mean what happens if Hayley Simmonds goes out an wins the nationals TT ? I saw Pooley has been resigned to Lotto Soudal ...so is she doing the Giro Rosa ?

rich_e

I really feel for Dani King as I think she has been very hard done by with this selection.

I also watched the Women's Tour last week and Pooley was not looking strong. She didn't even feature in the QOM competition here on British hills, so it casts even more of a shadow on her if she has been selected because the Rio stage has some elevation to it.

Ultimately the goal of this race is for the team is give all their support to Lizzie to go for the gold. From my armchair perspective, the way I see it is that with her consistent results and strength as a team player, the fact she was focusing on this race to go to Rio and she also clearly actually gets on very well Lizzie and will work for her (I was there at the podium in Kettering on Sunday), I think it's madness that Pooley has been selected over her.

poppit

Isn't it the case that we can only pick 3 riders in total with one of those 3 riding in the time trial. Lizzie is obviously one of those which leaves 2 places one of which has to be good at hilly time trials. The question is then who would stand the best chance of getting a result in a hilly time trial and then who would work best with Lizzie in the road race. Pooley has good past performances with climbing and time trial so who would be better than her? Don't know if there is anyone at the moment. The choice then comes down to King or Harris. Harris has had a strong year and is a team mate of Lizzie so in my opinion it's difficult to argue against choosing her, a difficult decision though.

andyp

poppit wrote:

Isn't it the case that we can only pick 3 riders in total with one of those 3 riding in the time trial. Lizzie is obviously one of those which leaves 2 places one of which has to be good at hilly time trials. The question is then who would stand the best chance of getting a result in a hilly time trial and then who would work best with Lizzie in the road race. Pooley has good past performances with climbing and time trial so who would be better than her? Don't know if there is anyone at the moment. The choice then comes down to King or Harris. Harris has had a strong year and is a team mate of Lizzie so in my opinion it's difficult to argue against choosing her, a difficult decision though.

Pooley is an amazing athlete. But she hasn't done well in a major cycling event for two years. So as it stands, she's being picked on reputation, not results. Which is unusual for BC.

If we're going on results then Dani King should be going, as she's the second ranked British rider this season.

Turfle

A rider's ranking is not particularly relevant in cycling, or Cav would be picked for the road race. The course suits Pooley much more than it suits King. If Pooley tears it up on the Giro Rosa climbs then BC would look silly for not selecting her.

Gambling on a rider who is a potential medalist is one worth taking, imo.

andyp

Turfle wrote:

A rider's ranking is not particularly relevant in cycling, or Cav would be picked for the road race. The course suits Pooley much more than it suits King. If Pooley tears it up on the Giro Rosa climbs then BC would look silly for not selecting her.

Gambling on a rider who is a potential medalist is one worth taking, imo.

Leave the selection until after the Giro Rosa then. They'll look equally stupid if she spends most of the race off the back. King has done well in hilly races this season, usually supporting her team leaders, i.e. the Euskal Emakumeen and Fleche Wallone.

poppit

andyp wrote:

Turfle wrote:

A rider's ranking is not particularly relevant in cycling, or Cav would be picked for the road race. The course suits Pooley much more than it suits King. If Pooley tears it up on the Giro Rosa climbs then BC would look silly for not selecting her.

Gambling on a rider who is a potential medalist is one worth taking, imo.

Leave the selection until after the Giro Rosa then. They'll look equally stupid if she spends most of the race off the back. King has done well in hilly races this season, usually supporting her team leaders, i.e. the Euskal Emakumeen and Fleche Wallone.

I think you've misunderstood. The primary race she's been picked for is the time trial but she will also have to ride the road race as a member of the 3 woman team. It's highly likely she won't do that well in the road race and certainly not as well as King would have done but that's not the point.