French ban Disc brakes

giropaul

At the risk of being pedantic in the wake of all this emotion, the UCI approved the use of disc brakes AS A TRIAL for Pro-Tour teams. It has never approved their use for non Pro-Tour teams or races - e.g. they would not be allowed for the Tour of Yorkshire race even before the trial was suspended.

Therefore, any UCI "event" (define that as you will), or events that are under National Body (BC,FFC etc) have never officially allowed discs (although I wouldn't be surprised if some were used before much attention was directed at them).

So the French haven't banned them at all in strict terms. They were never approved. Au revoir.

darkhairedlord

The pain of the early adopters, didn't even choose betamax, opting to jump straight to Laserdisc.

gavinbay

As someone who lives out in the French Alps for circa eight months of the year and when not ski touring in the winter season and conditions permit I cycle up my local hill "The Lautaret".





Only last week did the Col de Vars in good Spring weather. Then back out in the summer I'm fortunate to have the Galibier, Izoard, Granon and a whole load more on my door-step.

As you can see from the pic I use a gravel bike in the winter and the difference between discs and rims on long descents is just staggering, even on that cumbersome machine I was cutting minutes off my previous descent times.

Then last autumn I chopped my road bike in for a disc road bike.

Long descents it's not just about stopping distance, speed into bends etc but about hands / fingers cramping up if you're for ever on the brakes as is the case for many Brits doing mountain sportives as they are just not use to descending for 25km!

And as for wet roads, which can be so often the case in the mountains in the summer with afternoon thunder storms!

I actually think that there's a far better case to ban carbon rims as I've seen and "heard" tyres go and seen a good few come off their bikes in the couple of Etapes I've done and a chunk of the Marmot. My Strada carbon rims went on me first time I descended Granon a good few years ago as I was relatively inexperienced at descending and was on the brakes.

I did hear a while back that one reason for not allowing a mixture of rims and discs would that it would make those on rims take a higher risk in order to keep up with riders on discs, and I can sort of understand that argument.

As for the Frenchies, those that are used to the mountains their skill levels are such that they don't need disc brakes and probably view the use of disc brakes as diminishing the skill level needed to descend fast.

There's no way I could stay with my French mate when I was cycling with him last autumn down from Montgenevre and Echelles, and in fact it made me take a higher risk in trying to keep up with him!

DeVlaeminck

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

kajjal

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

Like downhill mountain bikers

manxshred

UCI to continue test in June http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-to- ... n-in-june/

The best anti post I've seen on Twitter is that they should be banned because they get too hot, and if someone touches a tubular wheel on them, it will cause the tyre to roll off the rim.....

Stevo_666

Kajjal wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

Like downhill mountain bikers

Lookyhere

Kajjal wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

Like downhill mountain bikers

tbh i ve never ridden a road bike down a root invested 40% tree lined descent, complete with numerous gap jumps and littered with 180 and 90 ' switch backs all c/w 2.4inch tires

ugo.santalucia

... rounder edges, just like Ugo said... :-)

homers_double

The rotors on my Heckler are perfectly round so I see no issue for all the ragged edges in the first place.

apreading

Tektro/TRP are apparently fine already:



Shimano could be rounded easily though, with a bit of effort:



I wonder if shimano will have to do a VW style recall on rotors and either replace or file them down for us?

DeVlaeminck

Kajjal wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

Like downhill mountain bikers

Fair point, cautious descenders and downhill mountain bikers then.

kajjal

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Kajjal wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

Like downhill mountain bikers

Fair point, cautious descenders and downhill mountain bikers then.

I was only teasing

I found disc brakes on my road bike made me much faster downhill as i trusted them to work more.

RallyBiker

I'm trying to suss out a way to convert my 29er from disc to v brake so as I can sample the advantages on Caddon Bank this coming weekend !

ugo.santalucia

RallyBiker wrote:

I'm trying to suss out a way to convert my 29er from disc to v brake so as I can sample the advantages on Caddon Bank this coming weekend !

It's not a relevant example... big tyres demand long calipers, which are inherently bad, being them V brakes or cantis. Road bikes with narrow clearance can use dual pivot calipers, which are very good. Problem is folks now want bigger tyres, which are only possible if combined with long drop calipers, which suffer the same issues as V brakes and cantis, hence discs become the only viable option.
The progressive deterioration of road surfaces, mainly due to cash strapped councils means tyres are only going to get bigger and rim brakes will disappear, whatever view the UCI takes on them...

Bajiboy

Hi all new to forums so be nice I have just bought the synapse 105 alloy discs and now been informed that I can't use this bike on a sportive I've signed up for. Do people have any knowledge of putting rim brakes on a synapse frame which has internal cabling and no mounts. Also whether the UCI are likely to withdraw their decision.

Cheers Dean.

ugo.santalucia

Bajiboy wrote:

Hi all new to forums so be nice I have just bought the synapse 105 alloy discs and now been informed that I can't use this bike on a sportive I've signed up for. Do people have any knowledge of putting rim brakes on a synapse frame which has internal cabling and no mounts. Also whether the UCI are likely to withdraw their decision.

Cheers Dean.

It's very difficult... there are adapters to fit to the frame, but most importantly you will need new wheels, as your rims are not machined for braking. Finding a rear wheel with a machined rim AND a 135 mm rear dropout aperture will be almost impossible, unless you go bespoke.

I guess your best options are to

a) withdraw from the event
b) get a bike with rim brakes (hire? Borrow?)
c) ignore the rule, show up on the day and see what happens, I think it's unlikely they won't let you start

apreading

Is the event on roads open to the public or closed roads? If open roads then nothing they can do to stop you riding the route but they could refuse you official entry and access to feed stations etc - I would just ride it. Most sportives (at least the ones I ride) dont offer any kind of insurance to entrants but if yours does and you want to be protected by it then you must stick to their rules.

If closed roads then I think only a) or b) from the above are sensible options.

Steve-XcT

BenderRodriguez wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

When you're buying your next bike you do not want to have at the back of your mind that you won't be able to take part in that big event you've been training for.

And anyone who bought a disc-braked road bike ran exactly that risk, given that they were never approved for use in UCI road races.

I can imagine that other organisers will be following the good example set by the FFC. Just imagine a serious injury involving a brake disc and the lawyers getting involved, demanding to know why they were allowed in the event when the UCI had barred them on safety grounds...

Yes other hazards exist, but what add unnecessary ones? And who can seriously argue that something like this doesn't pose an additional hazard?

There are rotors and rotors.

Many of which you would really struggle to cut paper with...others have a sharp edge and sawtooth.

DeVlaeminck

Don't worry about disc brakes - there is no way they could stop you starting or using the feed stations even if they wanted to - well I suppose there is a way but it would mean employing a lot of staff fluent in different languages to walk up and down the road packed with thousands of cyclists waiting to start. Same with the feed stations - you dump your bike and walk over - the people there aren't even looking at whether you've rocked up on a bike let alone what brakes you have. The finish timing is automatic so short of them checking the finish video and DQing anyone with discs that is not an issue either.

This "rule" is about as likely to be enforced as the UK police pulling you over for not having pedal reflectors - don't worry about it - one year we were all meant to have front and rear lights for the tunnels (not actually a bad idea) - I reckon about 10% of the field actually fitted them.

ugo.santalucia

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Don't worry about disc brakes - there is no way they could stop you starting or using the feed stations even if they wanted to - well I suppose there is a way but it would mean employing a lot of staff fluent in different languages to walk up and down the road packed with thousands of cyclists waiting to start. Same with the feed stations - you dump your bike and walk over - the people there aren't even looking at whether you've rocked up on a bike let alone what brakes you have. The finish timing is automatic so short of them checking the finish video and DQing anyone with discs that is not an issue either.

This "rule" is about as likely to be enforced as the UK police pulling you over for not having pedal reflectors - don't worry about it - one year we were all meant to have front and rear lights for the tunnels (not actually a bad idea) - I reckon about 10% of the field actually fitted them.

Agree

paul2718

The Tour of Cambridgeshire organiser was asked the question on Facebook. The answer was,

ToC wrote:

ToC is run under UCI technical regulations. There will however be no bike inspection at ToC 2016 for either the Chrono or the Gran Fondo. Riders qualifying for the Worlds must note however that UCI my be inspecting all bikes in Perth for infringement of technical regulations.

They aren't allowed to say 'yes', the UCI and BC regulations are quite specific, and have been for a while. So pragmatism rules. There was a similar situation prior to the World championships last September regarding wheels, which for a BC or UCI event have to be either of traditional construction or on the tested list. The hint from a UCI person was that they wouldn't be checking. Perhaps unless you won. The wheel issue of course applies to the same events as the disc brake question, but doesn't seem to cause so much anxiety. Loads of people in the Etape on 'illegal' wheels.

Paul

wallace_and_gromit

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Sounds like discs are a benefit to poor descenders then, anyone half decent should not be on the brakes enough for fingers cramping or tyres blowing to be an issue. That might explain the divergence of opinion, the more cautious finding a benefit while the less cautious wonder what the fuss is about?

I've ridden several sportives including the Marmotte on a hybrid with hydraulic discs and a normal road bike. In dry conditions, the discs don't offer much in terms of being able to stop, though when wet, discs are in a different league (higher) in terms of stopping power. Puncture repair time is not really an issue for sportivistes either, as replacing even a rear wheel with a disc takes maybe 30-60 seconds more than replacing a conventional wheel, which isn't a huge proportion of the time taken to fix a puncture. It's most likely not an issue for amateur racers either as if you puncture then you're pretty much stuffed anyway. I can see this would be a big issue for the pros though.

There are probably benefits re not overheating rims even to good descenders in the Alps as if you get allocated a late start time or suffer a puncture/mechanical early on, you will be descending with a lot of not so good descenders in a small space. Then, unless you're prepared to take some crazy risks or are happy scaring the bejesus out of others by slaloming round them, you'll have to brake a lot more than you'd want to. This happened to me in my last Marmotte and whilst my tyres stayed on, the rims were scarily hot at times!

I've never noticed any benefits re cramp in fingers etc. I think if either sort of bike is set up properly to account for length of fingers, riding position etc. then this shouldn't be an issue.

I'm not planning on ditching my 5 year old conventional bike for a bike with discs, but when "Old Faithful" has to be retired, the plan would be to get a bike with discs, so in my dotage, I can descend steadily without worrying about blowing tyres etc.