French ban Disc brakes

13

Comments

  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    All those saying that the tyre loses traction before the rim brakes, are you still running skinny tyres or lower pressure 25s or 28s? Personally, I run 28mm tyres at around 75-85psi on my flat bar commuter and even with hydraulic discs would sometimes be happy with even more braking force. When I ride my son's road bike with 23mm tyres and rim brakes its scary at times, even worse in the wet.
  • paul2718
    paul2718 Posts: 471
    frisbee wrote:
    Don't remember any technical restrictions bikes in the Tour of Cambridge Gran Fondo. Checking this year's there are still none.
    If you review the ToC road book it states that the race is run in accordance with UCI regulations and links to said regulations. Which define what a bike for a road race is. And that specifically doesn't allow disc brakes.

    Paul
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Kajjal wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Performance difference between rim & discs is overstated, regularly.

    The performance difference is marginal in the grand scheme of things.

    As soon as the UCI lift the weight limit on bikes or reduced they'll become moot anyway; at the moment their bikes are underweight so the extra deadweight they need to put on is basically space for advertising. Why not advertise disc brakes?

    It's an over-engineered solution to what isn't really a problem.

    If you're heading on a sportive and you're getting nerdy about kit you should be looking at ways to make you bike lighter and stiffer, rather than worrying about heavy disc brakes.

    Not if you weigh 16 stone and are used to mountain bike disc brakes!!

    In the wet for me decent rim brakes and pads are very poor.

    Just brake a bit earlier mate. It's not rocket science.
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    The worst thing about them reintroducing this ban is we wont get to see discs in the Giro or Tour because if you believe their adherents any technical descent should put anyone on rim brakes out the back.

    I don't believe that will happen but if it does we'll have to accept discs are a genuine advantage.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,334
    Back to topic please, this is French bashing thread....
    left the forum March 2023
  • bikergirl17
    bikergirl17 Posts: 344
    In all seriousness for those who talk about rim brakes being "scary" - perhaps you are simply descending too fast & perhaps should be modulating a little sooner? These weren't made to stop on a dime.

    And I find this debate ludicrous - if it's the rule for this year, deal with it. it truly sucks but you don't want to be the person who slips into the etape with your disc bike & slices someone's leg as you will be sued to high heaven with your insurance firm disavowing you ...
  • apreading
    apreading Posts: 4,535
    Yeah, because everyone knows loads of one legged mountain bikers - I hear Long John Silver took part in the early trials of disc brakes...
  • bikergirl17
    bikergirl17 Posts: 344
    edited April 2016
    apreading wrote:
    Yeah, because everyone knows loads of one legged mountain bikers - I hear Long John Silver took part in the early trials of disc brakes...
  • bikergirl17
    bikergirl17 Posts: 344
    You missed my point. I'm saying if an accident does occur - at a mass participation event not a few bikers on a trail - then that cyclist is financially £€>;6)(). your beef should be with the UCI.

    And look it's not that hard to find another 700c bike push comes to shove - and a good one.
  • thegreatdivide
    thegreatdivide Posts: 5,807
    bikergirl17 wrote:
    In all seriousness for those who talk about rim brakes being "scary" - perhaps you are simply descending too fast & perhaps should be modulating a little sooner? These weren't made to stop on a dime.

    And I find this debate ludicrous - if it's the rule for this year, deal with it. it truly sucks but you don't want to be the person who slips into the etape with your disc bike & slices someone's leg as you will be sued to high heaven with your insurance firm disavowing you ...

    The voice of reason.

    If you're having to slam on your disc brakes it might be time to sit your cycling proficiency test.
  • meanredspider
    meanredspider Posts: 12,337
    Could the anti-disc guys please get their story straight:

    Either:
    a. There's no performance difference between discs and rims or
    b. When braking on rim brakes you just need to go slower and brake much earlier

    Of course there's a performance difference between rim and disc brakes, especially in the wet. And, yes, you can ride rim brakes and ride slower and brake much earlier - and, when riding in difficult conditions you should ride slower all the time because you might not know when you're going to need to brake. That's particular effective when you're racing because it saves energy and you won't be so tired at the the end. You won't have done very well but at least you'd have ridden safely. A trike might be safer still.

    Too funny.

    It's an utter nonsense that discs are banned unless the real reason is that they're perceived to give a competitive advantage.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,840
    meanredspider wrote:
    Could the anti-disc guys please get their story straight:

    Either:
    a. There's no performance difference between discs and rims or
    b. When braking on rim brakes you just need to go slower and brake much earlier

    Of course there's a performance difference between rim and disc brakes, especially in the wet. And, yes, you can ride rim brakes and ride slower and brake much earlier - and, when riding in difficult conditions you should ride slower all the time because you might not know when you're going to need to brake. That's particular effective when you're racing because it saves energy and you won't be so tired at the the end. You won't have done very well but at least you'd have ridden safely. A trike might be safer still.

    Too funny.

    It's an utter nonsense that discs are banned unless the real reason is that they're perceived to give a competitive advantage.
    Nail. Head.

    I could have sworn they were using disc brakes in the first World Cup downhill race in Lourdes last week and nobody was moaning.

    There will be quite a few mountain bikers having a good chuckle about this :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited April 2016
    meanredspider wrote:
    Could the anti-disc guys please get their story straight:

    Either:
    a. There's no performance difference between discs and rims or
    b. When braking on rim brakes you just need to go slower and brake much earlier

    Of course there's a performance difference between rim and disc brakes, especially in the wet. And, yes, you can ride rim brakes and ride slower and brake much earlier - and, when riding in difficult conditions you should ride slower all the time because you might not know when you're going to need to brake. That's particular effective when you're racing because it saves energy and you won't be so tired at the the end. You won't have done very well but at least you'd have ridden safely. A trike might be safer still.

    Too funny.

    It's an utter nonsense that discs are banned unless the real reason is that they're perceived to give a competitive advantage.

    I'm not so much anti them, as I don't get the fuss over them.

    I've used both in the past and in the wet sure, discs have an edge. We're probably talking braking 10-15m later on a wet descent before a hairpin, roughly. Given on rims you spend the first 5m removing the water off the rim anyway, it's not all that different. Most riders I know aren't troubling the limits of grip on their tyres even in the wet, so someone in rim brakes with a bit more balls can cover that gap fairly easily anyway.

    In the dry the difference is more marginal, maybe 3 metres at best? If that.

    In my experience, even in the wet, I can stop faster on my rim brakes than most of those on discs because I'm 55 kilos and they are usually a decent 20 kilos heavier. That makes a much bigger difference.

    As I've said a million times before, the only reason disc brakes are getting a lot of attention in the pro-peloton and from manufacturers is because they can so easily beat the 6.8 kilo weight limit and maintain serious stiffness, that teams are now having to use weights to weigh the bike down.

    At that point, disc brakes make sense. Why have a few pieces of lead dropped down the seat tube when you can use that weight difference to have marginally better (and much more expensive...!), but heavier disc brakes to show off??! Keeps the sponsor happy, riders can say they brake quicker in the wet - job's a good'un.

    As soon as the weight limit gets dropped bike manufacturers will be much more concerned with making light-stiff bikes again - like they were in the '90s and '00s. Some of us remember all the adverts with pro riders holding their bike above their head. "so light, yet stiff!!".

    Broadly speaking the gains made there nowadays are so marginal since they want the top riders to ride their steeds so where's the gain? That's also why we've seen a big increase in development in the 'roubaix' style bikes and aero bikes. You can make them as light and stiff as you want for 6.8 kilos, so why not work on comfort or slipperiness?

    I think in the pro-peloton it's seen as an advantage until the weight limit disappears, and broadly speaking riders are much more concerned with how fast they can go outright, rather than their braking ability. It's not like a motor-race, they spend much less of their time slowing down for corners, and even then, in the dry (which it is more often than not) it's not particularly advantageous.



    Now take all of that with the apparent risk of more serious injuries during mass pile ups (which are inevitable in mass-start road cycling), you wonder if it's all worth it?

    I mean, there was a bit of uproar at the removal of bladed wheels from the pro-peloton and from sportive back in the '90s, because they were so much faster and stiffer, but everyone's made their peace with that now. Could one of those chop your arm off? Probably not.
    _
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    meanredspider wrote:
    Could the anti-disc guys please get their story straight:

    Either:
    a. There's no performance difference between discs and rims or
    b. When braking on rim brakes you just need to go slower and brake much earlier

    Of course there's a performance difference between rim and disc brakes, especially in the wet. And, yes, you can ride rim brakes and ride slower and brake much earlier - and, when riding in difficult conditions you should ride slower all the time because you might not know when you're going to need to brake. That's particular effective when you're racing because it saves energy and you won't be so tired at the the end. You won't have done very well but at least you'd have ridden safely. A trike might be safer still.

    Too funny.

    It's an utter nonsense that discs are banned unless the real reason is that they're perceived to give a competitive advantage.
    Nail. Head.

    I could have sworn they were using disc brakes in the first World Cup downhill race in Lourdes last week and nobody was moaning.

    There will be quite a few mountain bikers having a good chuckle about this :)


    I came road biking from mountain biking and couldn't understand why people put up with poor braking on road bikes. Most on here arguing against disc brakes argue both a. and b. positions at the same time while suggesting disc brakes are like bladed wheels on ancient battle chariots.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,334
    I was hoping this stayed as a French bashing thread, but as thing goes... it's rim Vs disc again.

    We tried comparing stopping distance on a ride out and there is a more than zero difference... I suspect fully hydraulic setups would probably enhance that difference even more. This was on the flat and I have a HyRD front and a generic mechanical at the back.

    When it comes to descending, the point at which you hit the brakes before a hairpin is moved forward by 10 metres, give or take... deceleration is more effective, confidence is enhanced.

    However, in the wet that might be counter productive, as the tyre might lose grip and if that is the front, then it can be painful... of course a bit of "getting used to" avoid any issue, short shapr squeezes act as a manual ABS. With rim brakes one doesn't have that luxury.

    Since the peloton moved to carbon rims, I see a lot more PRO riders falling off downhill when it's wet, most notably a couple of years back at the Tour of Lombardy, they appeared to be riding on ice, which was quite bizarre... but that might also be due to the introduction of compulsory helmets, which more or less happened at the same time (2005?)... they feel safer, they ride harder downhill... hard to say
    left the forum March 2023
  • norvernrob
    norvernrob Posts: 1,448
    Kajjal wrote:
    I came road biking from mountain biking and couldn't understand why people put up with poor braking on road bikes. Most on here arguing against disc brakes argue both a. and b. positions at the same time while suggesting disc brakes are like bladed wheels on ancient battle chariots.

    Personally, having bought a CX bike with discs a couple of months ago (TRP Spyres) I don't see the fuss. I'll say it now....in the dry the SRAM Red calipers on my Foil bite harder than the Spyres and I would say it stops faster. The Spyres were bedded in by braking very hard from speed quite a few times - it's not that they're bad because they're not, they stop well - but the caliper setup I have just feels stronger. The 105 calipers on my Cube were nowhere near as good though.

    The only advantage the discs have for me is that I use the bike on trails and there's no crap getting ground into the rims which is great. Both have their uses, for road riding in dry or moderately wet conditions I'd choose my calipers anytime. For very wet and mucky conditions I'd use the discs (and do).
  • kajjal
    kajjal Posts: 3,380
    NorvernRob wrote:
    Kajjal wrote:
    I came road biking from mountain biking and couldn't understand why people put up with poor braking on road bikes. Most on here arguing against disc brakes argue both a. and b. positions at the same time while suggesting disc brakes are like bladed wheels on ancient battle chariots.

    Personally, having bought a CX bike with discs a couple of months ago (TRP Spyres) I don't see the fuss. I'll say it now....in the dry the SRAM Red calipers on my Foil bite harder than the Spyres and I would say it stops faster. The Spyres were bedded in by braking very hard from speed quite a few times - it's not that they're bad because they're not, they stop well - but the caliper setup I have just feels stronger. The 105 calipers on my Cube were nowhere near as good though.

    The only advantage the discs have for me is that I use the bike on trails and there's no crap getting ground into the rims which is great. Both have their uses, for road riding in dry or moderately wet conditions I'd choose my calipers anytime. For very wet and mucky conditions I'd use the discs (and do).

    Which makes sense as you have tried various brakes and chosen the ones that suit you best.
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    Bored of rim vs disc. I like both types of brake but I think banning a type of brake is silly especially in a non competitive event. BC allowing disc brakes in race wont change much for me I have bought a new Look and I wont be replacing it anytime soon. As most races I do are dry and if there is rain I would just call it damp disc brakes are not essential but I would not them either. Trying to claim disc brakes are a safety concern well I could ride a bike with single pivot brakes in these events and in my race tomorrow and that is hazzardous. Even in the dry I can't stop quickly. So the French better had ban single pivot brakes, cheap tektro brake (they don't work)....... silly French and there inconsitent rules.

    I think the french are silly in this respect and they are silly in other ways. Yellow headlights, is there country sponsered by lumicycle (I love that lumicycle yellow glow it was such an improvement on the Cateye lead acid battery powered lights I had previously). Maybe I should do my off road riding with these lights, I still have them. They used to scare the crap out of me every wednesday night. well the lack of light scared the crap out of me. Tech moves on normally for a good reason.

    I think BC can be a bit silly and so are UCI when it comes to bike rules. All federations have silly rules not just on brakes.
    silly federations, silly french. Back on track now I hope.

    I know why the French have banned disc brakes for some events, they just like to say Non. well I can sympathise with that it just sounds better than no.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    meanredspider wrote:
    Could the anti-disc guys please get their story straight:

    Either:
    a. There's no performance difference between discs and rims or
    b. When braking on rim brakes you just need to go slower and brake much earlier

    Of course there's a performance difference between rim and disc brakes, especially in the wet. And, yes, you can ride rim brakes and ride slower and brake much earlier .



    As I said the shame about this ban is we wont get to see this tested in the grand tours - if discs are a genuine advantage we would have seen some real gaps open up on technical or wet descents.

    Personal experience is discs make naff all difference over alloy rims, against carbon maybe but I haven't ridden modern high end carbon wheels only older or cheaper stuff - and in the Alps last time the only guy in our group on discs was the last one down every mountain but I remain open to conversion!
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • cycleclinic
    cycleclinic Posts: 6,865
    What happened to french bashing. It used to be the brits favourite past time have we gone all soft something.

    I think some of the people posting in this thread might be secret frenchies :lol:
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • davebradswmb
    davebradswmb Posts: 553
    I think that it is clear what is the real reason for the French banning discs. The French are aesthetes, they appreciate beauty unlike us semi-neanderthal saxons, and they saw discs on bikes and they couldn't cope with the way they spoiled the appearance of what are otherwise most beautiful machines. So they banned them, seems reasonable to me.

    I bought my best bike because it was beautiful and it wouldn't have been beautiful with discs on, I can't see me changing the way I choose my bikes anytime soon.
  • manxshred
    manxshred Posts: 295
    Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I do not like the look of a classic steel road bike, and wouldn't own one.
    So there is now a fashion police. I think they have missed the boat on a bunch of middle age men wearing gimp suits with a polystyrene mushroom on their heads.

    Oh, and Spain has also banned them.
    http://road.cc/content/news/187652-spai ... -sportives

    If Italy follow suit, then I'm out of the Maratona, for all the money I have spent.
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    In terms of performance - I much prefer my hydro disc brakes (on my 29er) over the rim brakes on my CX. Never really had an issue on the roadbike though ..

    As for banning disc brakes in a sportive - well - there's bad enough riding as it is - disc brakes aren't going to make any difference - however, if it's under UCI rules and effectively a race then fair enough I guess - still bloody annoying for those entering in good faith only to be banned ...
    TBH though - banning a sportive rider for kit? well - if they were consistent that would be fine - but I've seen plenty of bikes with banned tri-bars being used in sportives.... so if they can't effectively ban those then why bother with discs?
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    Slowbike wrote:
    so if they can't effectively ban those then why bother with discs?

    Because when the insurance companies get involved, the organiser can have a defence ; "they are not allowed, the rider involved broke the rules and is therefore responsible".
  • Lookyhere
    Lookyhere Posts: 987
    ManxShred wrote:
    Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I do not like the look of a classic steel road bike, and wouldn't own one.
    So there is now a fashion police. I think they have missed the boat on a bunch of middle age men wearing gimp suits with a polystyrene mushroom on their heads.

    Oh, and Spain has also banned them.
    http://road.cc/content/news/187652-spai ... -sportives

    If Italy follow suit, then I'm out of the Maratona, for all the money I have spent.

    They will too, cause unlike the uk, these events are timed massed start road races.

    Hopefully discs on road racing bikes will now become a distant memory :lol:
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,108
    It is very unfair - I know it probably wont actually be enforced but most of us would be at least a little concerned about going out to Italy, Spain or France with the prospect that we might be turned away from the event we've travelled out there for.

    My advice would be to still go, take your best bike, and if anyone says anything to you on the start line just feign ignorance and if that doesn't work just ignore them - absolute worst case would be they don't classify you in the results.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • slowbike
    slowbike Posts: 8,498
    dodgy wrote:
    Slowbike wrote:
    so if they can't effectively ban those then why bother with discs?

    Because when the insurance companies get involved, the organiser can have a defence ; "they are not allowed, the rider involved broke the rules and is therefore responsible".

    flippin insurance - it's the bane of everyones life!
    Can't breath without insurance these days ... :(
  • dodgy
    dodgy Posts: 2,890
    What if manufacturers do respond by cutting back on disc brake equipped road bikes now, presumably spares* will become an issue for those already in possession of said bikes sooner than they would normally have done.

    * Rotors, mounts, callipers etc etc

    I'm now nervous of investing, will have to see how this pans out. I want a disc brake equipped bike, no interest in another rim braked bike.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Maybe they've got a point:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 65mph.html
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,334
    bompington wrote:
    Maybe they've got a point:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... 65mph.html

    Nice read from the daily mail, but it cannot be hot on the M25...
    left the forum March 2023

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