Planet X Pricing - SMOKE AND MIRRORS

MikeBrew

bompington wrote:

I wonder how much faster I'd go if I'd spent twice as much as I did on my bikes? Any evidence based figures?

Bit of a red herring as this thread is primarily about PX's dodgy marketing, and inflated notional RRP on their products. RRP is probably the wrong term as PX, obviously, don't use other retailers .
The last time I heard two people talking about "fast" push-bikes I was dropping them off at school. Soon they'll both have mopeds and will no-doubt forget about push bikes comppletely for a couple decades..... I'm not sure that anyone here thinks of better bikes as necessarily faster (zoom, zoom)...

But tell me this, of Planet X's EC-130 Rivet Rider frameset @ £999 , and a Hi-Mod Evo frameset @ £749 , which would YOU buy ? My Point here is that a the Evo at £750 is a steal.. The EC-130 at £1000, or even the 50% off price that it will no doubt very soon be advertised at, is quite simply NOT.
Totally unproved and very unlikely to around or even remembered in 3/4 years time, the imaginatively named EC-130, rather than being an attempt at, or long term commitment to - cycling excellence, is probably just another cheaaply sourced money extraction platform.
No doubt some bright spark(like PastryBoy) will now pipe up and say that the years of R+D, and long lineage that go into an Evo barely makes a noticeable difference between the two in terms of ride. :roll:

bigmat

The Evo Hi-Mod is very heavily discounted and is probably one of the best deals on the market right now, though, isn't it? I'd still be tempted to stump up another £300 and get the Chorus equipped Viner from Planet X if I was in the market for a new road bike. Still, if your point is that the Rivet isn't really a £1,000 frame and that £500 is a more realistic price, I'm inclined to agree (would be a good deal at £500 - they could maybe justify a bit more but I think £1,000 is stretching it a bit - love to see their sales figures at that price...)

MikeBrew

Well yes that was half of my ponit. The other half , that I very likely didn't put across very well, is that after riding both I think that most people would be happy to stump up considerable more for the Evo, than for the EG-123 (or what-ever it's called...)oops forgotten the name already !

bigmat

I suspect an awful lot of people wouldn't be able to tell any difference if they were built up to the same spec and then blind tested. What differences there might be are probably only really relevant to someone racing at a fairly high level.

MikeBrew

Well there are a lot of very recent Evo purchasers on here that could probably comment first hand, on half of that equation...

viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13042198

I guess the diffrences would depend on not only how good the Evo is, but also just how bad the EG-123(or what ever it's called) tyrns out to be. Hopefully, it's not as bad as the N2a that couldn't even keep it's rear wheel clamped in line with the front.

bigmat

Are they laterally stiff, vertically compliant, jump ahead with every pedal stroke, come alive as soon as the road goes uphill? I suspect the main differences with more expensive frames are that they are stiffer for a given weight and better finished. Only one of those has any performance benefit, and unless you're a performance cyclist then it doesn't amount to that much.

MikeBrew

Comfortable is, I think ,the overriding (no pun intended) consensus. Innocuous sounding word that means a hell of a lot in the real world. But have a look ,for yourself viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=13042198

bigmat

Not saying it isn't a great frame - I know a few people who have them and they rave about them. Probably not that fair a comparison with Planet X though, its a pro-level frame that has been heavily discounted. Still, I suppose Planet X bring that comparison on themselves by suggesting theirs is a £1,000 frame!

MikeBrew

BigMat wrote:

Still, I suppose Planet X bring that comparison on themselves by suggesting theirs is a £1,000 frame!

Absolutely, and that really is the nub of what offends me about them. My guess is that the EG-123, is being offered at £999 just to embed it in peoples minds as a 1K frameset then, low and behold, when it's offered at £500 people start buying because it's then perceived to be a "bargain". The fact that it was only ever worth or intended to retail @£500 or less goes unnoticed.

There's nothing wrong with being cheap and direct to market, so why not call it a £500 from the get-go ? Why all the smoke and mirrors ... Why make such a nonsense of their "no nonsense prices" claim....? So no, I can't take them seriously anymore. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
I know that a lot of folk on her have said that they buy when the price is right for them, and are not taken in a all by the ever fluctuating prices. Well everyone would like to think that they aren't affected by it, that they're too smart to be taken in.
But consider this, PX use these dodgy tactics for one reason, and one reason only : because THEY WORK for PX. What also might work is gaining buyers' trust, respect and loyalty by employing straight forward "No Nonsense Prices", instead of just talking about them. Then again, it might not .....

daniel_b

MB sums it up nicely for me above - nice, and succinct, post

chippyk

Pro Carbon Classic:
799 a couple of weeks ago, then,
899 with a 100 quid voucher code and now....
999 with a 200 quid voucher code.

A couple of years ago I remember so Selcof carbon clinchers, something like Was £1699, Now £399 or something. £1699? Who would pay the cost of some Zipp 404s for some presumably chinese wheels off Planet X?

eespark

Rolf F wrote:

Personally I'd far prefer a world where there were not constant sales on all the time - where shops could sell stuff at the fair price they want and we could go and buy things when we wanted without having to consider waiting for whenever the next sale of that item was likely to be. But of course, in that world how would we be persuaded to keep buying more and more crap that we don't actually need?! So, in truth this is the world we want and have created so we really shouldn't complain about it.........

It's not really you and me who've created it but the cynical marketing mentality that seems to have permeated most consumer brands combined with far-east volume production. Planet X is perceived to be a "cheap" brand and hence they need to resort to ever more eye-catching tactics (which may or may not be so). I've brought some of their stuff and graphics aside have been happy with it.

Overall, to respond to Mikebrew's original post, it's not just Planet X and not just cycling. The sad truth is that most companies are not driven by the desire to create a good product and sell it at a fair price but by the aforementioned marketing people who're too lost in their segmentation strategies and what not and just generally trying to be very clever and getting people to part with as much money as possible. It works for a short while, but over the long run everybody loses.

mpatts

part time waster wrote:

Like I said the own branded stuff is toss , badly cut jerseys , gloves , socks ,gilets. you get what you pay for.
Only my opinion. I now spend a bit more and get castelli , rapha , giordana , etc, all in the sales.

I bought one of their LS merino jerseys in 2013. It gets the most use of any kit I own - wore it under my Gabba this weekend. Can't vouch for their other stuff but it's excellent.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Purely as an example, Go outdoors now have an Easter special sale of 15% off the discount card price...

Superb!

But just before this sale, the discount card price for the Calibre Two.two was ~£329.99, now the discount card price is £384.99.

The 15% promo price is ~£327.15, an amazing overall discount of ~£1.84!

veronese68

Has anyone tried the PXPPP40 code today? It's still listed on the website but doesn't seem to work on some rims that it says the code applies to. Might have to try again on the computer at home.

MikeBrew

Veronese68 wrote:

Has anyone tried the PXPPP40 code today? It's still listed on the website but doesn't seem to work on some rims that it says the code applies to. Might have to try again on the computer at home.

No rush... It may well be as cheap or cheaper after the "Sale" . The this hub for instance http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/HUVIME40F/ ... 4-hole-hub . Pre sale £24.99 . Beginning of the 40% "Offer" it was £29.99 before discount applied. Now in the same sale, it's £39.99 before the discount is applied, £23.99 after discount.... So it's now a whole £1 cheaper than it was before there was a "sale" at all.
Similarly, the matching rear hub went £49.99 - £59.99 - and now £69.99 in the "Sale".... :roll:

Never trust a man who'd quote Morrissey in a his monthly sympathy searching PX blogs, eh... Though, I daresay Dave's reply would go something like :
.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9X0zoBCVWA

Mind you, Morrissey also made a few quid by whining and peddling shite, for years. So I can see why one might see the other as something of a kindred spirit ........ :idea:

Back in the day, I used to wonder what sort of person could ever like a pretentious, affectatious tw@t like Morrissey.... At least I've now cleared that one up. 8) More of a Pink Floyd (and Wiggle) man myself...

N0bodyOfTheGoat

The code was still working earlier, but some prices have been tweaked, for example the plain black On One Floaters were £24.99 before the discount and today are £29.99 (same price as the cheaper coloured options).

There have been some items labelled as being applicable for PXPPP40, but this is not the case when you use th code in the basket. For instance, the Fatty Trail.

veronese68

MikeBrew wrote:

Never trust a man who'd quote Morrissey in a his monthly sympathy searching PX blogs, eh...

Good enough for me, I'm out. I knew there was a reason I don't read those blogs.

rickeverett

mpatts wrote:

part time waster wrote:

Like I said the own branded stuff is toss , badly cut jerseys , gloves , socks ,gilets. you get what you pay for.
Only my opinion. I now spend a bit more and get castelli , rapha , giordana , etc, all in the sales.

I bought one of their LS merino jerseys in 2013. It gets the most use of any kit I own - wore it under my Gabba this weekend. Can't vouch for their other stuff but it's excellent.

Second that. Have some of there own brand kit and a merino compression top. Quality is great.

I take a very sceptical stance on expensive kit now after being let down in the past with things like altura bibs splitting and pearl izumi gloves coming apart in a few months. Had some Planet X ALU wheels once that were miles better than the fulcrum 3s that bust hitting a pot hole. they replaced as a stop gap.. They became a two season set.

There's brand snobbery and a underworld in the cycling world of name before use. The likes of mags such as Cycling Plus that seem to have a bias.

MikeBrew

@ rickeverett
To be fair, I've had overshoes and jerseys from them that have lasted very well. Other stuff, not so well. Rather than a critique of the quality of their clothing though, the thread is primarily concerned with them playing silly buggers with prices and marketing.
Despite cycling having grown significantly in recent years, it is still essentially a specialist market, made up of the sport's enthusiasts, new and old. I can't help feeling that by employing the sort of tatty marketing that is utilized to shift a sea of sofa's, cheap carpets, and tacky sports wear etc etc, PX are getting it wrong - very wrong.
I agree about there being brand snobbery in cycling. I owned a Boardman carbon and, despite regular jibes from a certain quarter, found it to be a great bike, that served me well for several years and thousands of miles.
That said, there is difference between buying because a particular brand is synonymous with quality, and buying simply for the name. In other words, sometimes, paying more for a well known name is more about pragmatism that than about snobbery. The maxim "buy cheap - buy twice" still applies to some purchases and at the end of the day, when you cut away away the crap of their price games, are Planet X really even that cheap compared to other brands anyway ?

N0bodyOfTheGoat

Now a 50% discount for the more limited stuff left in the clearance section, but for some bits I've looked at, the pre-discount price is higher (because the discount on the rrp has been lowered) and the 50% off code takes them back to same price as earlier 2016 liquidation sales.;)

MikeBrew

Well to paraphrase Dave's mate, the tw@t formerly known as Morrisey , "30-40-50 percent, what difference does it make ?" .... Diddly squat would appear to be the answer to that , my daffodil waving friend..........Very little indeed, you very very charmless man.....

bendertherobot

TO be fair, Campag Khamsin's have never been £75 like today

MikeBrew

bendertherobot wrote:

TO be fair, Campag Khamsin's have never been £75 like today

True, and at nearly 25% off of the £99 that they were a couple of days ago, a real saving. Not sure why they hiked the notional price to £149 and called it a 50% saving though :idea: On the other hand, there are items there that are more net of 50% off than they were net of 25% off in a previous sale. Now there's some very clever maths !

jdee84

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPHEARDPTS ... n-wheelset

Does this not seem like a good deal from them?

bendertherobot

jdee84 wrote:

http://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/WPHEARDPTSE/hed-ardennes-plus-tune-special-edition-wheelset

Does this not seem like a good deal from them?

Yes. But, they were £1199 last week with some discount code taking them down to £720. So they're marginally cheaper than they were last week. You can still, if my maths is right, build them for slightly less.

ddraver

This thread has put me off buying from them - That Tomac Montezuma at 500 squids would be mighty tempting however...

holiver

The trouble is that majority of people love a perceived bargain. An American department store attempted to use a 'fair' pricing strategy a few years ago and it failed.

http://business.time.com/2013/04/16/att ... es-galore/

It is frustrating when a company always seems to be running discounts, as it is difficult to ascertain the true price of a product and what represents value for money.

onyourright

Planet X takes the view that customers are idiots. But hey, the strategy seems to work.

However, these fake sales are illegal in addition to being insulting to our intelligence. I guess they’re betting no-one will report or prosecute them for it.

balb0wa

These planet x bike of the day deal things on facebook make me laugh.

I think 1 has actually sold, if they were great deals, they would be gone in seconds.