Planet X Pricing - SMOKE AND MIRRORS
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Isn't this just what absolutely every retailer has always done since the history of mankind?
There will always be a way to remove your hard earned cash as long as there are retailers.0 -
PX gear I've had has been pretty decent overall. That said, is it just me or is their wheel range getting poorer as time goes by?0
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Come on guys, some of you sound like whining pussies. It's called marketing. If you like the price buy the item, if not then don't - simples!FFS! Harden up and grow a pair
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I've had a few bits & pieces from PX (bibshorts, winter longsleeve top, skullcap etc) and despite having paid peanuts they are functional & hardwearing. I also currently have a cheap & nasty PX saddle on my winter bike wich turned out to be a lot more comfortable than various more expensive branded ones I've used. But I might just have an odd-shaped arse.
My biggest gripe is that despite having a local PX branch (Edinburgh) I've had to buy everything online because the shop's pretty poorly stocked & seems to serve little purpose beyond being a bike showroom.0 -
I thought PX had closed down in Edinburgh ?0
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I've bought gear from them in the past as well as from this sale. No issues with quality. I had a pair of pearl izumi MIT's rthat fell apart in no time that were four times the price.
I took the punt and bought a rt90 SRAM force bike from them last year.. Service was great, setup bang on and bike a real dream to ride.
I have no issues with this current marketing strategy for the sale.0 -
Fenix wrote:I thought PX had closed down in Edinburgh ?
I moved out to West Lothian 18 months ago & don't think I've been in that bit of town since. Wouldn't be surprised if they were gone!0 -
Price establishment before a sale isnt't solely Planet X's responsibility.
I do study their website for at least a couple of weeks before buying anything as they do tweak it regularly and some items are better purchased out of a sale period as the price could be as good or better.0 -
NuclearRed955 wrote:Fenix wrote:I thought PX had closed down in Edinburgh ?
I moved out to West Lothian 18 months ago & don't think I've been in that bit of town since. Wouldn't be surprised if they were gone!
Yeah sorry to break it to you :-( I almost popped in when I was up on holidays, but it was a bit of a hike from the main drag.0 -
Quit moaning. If you see something you like at a price you like get it. Who gives a stuff if it was 2.5% cheaper in a sale a few months back. You didn't buy it then, stupid you. Stop whinging!
Why should any customer expect any retailer to play straight. From supermarkets with misleading multi buy discounts that are more expensive than smaller packaged version or who use end of aisle marketing tricks or even down to choice of background music and some use synthetic scents too apparently.
If you're gullible that's not the retailer's fault.0 -
Tangled Metal wrote:
Why should any customer expect any retailer to play straight. From supermarkets with misleading multi buy discounts that are more expensive than smaller packaged version or who use end of aisle marketing tricks or even down to choice of background music and some use synthetic scents too apparently
Well you're absolutely right, PX don't appear to "play it straight" with their pricing , and you've raised some interesting and pertinent points . As essentially a specialist interest/luxury item retailer, one wouldn't expect the same "stack it high" sell it cheap ethos employed in supermarkets. After-all, we're talking about quite high value items here and not tins of baked beans and freshly baked croissants.
Supermarket tactics are also extremely at odds with the Made in Britain card that PX likes to play, as well as their "No Nonsense Price" slogan.
Personally I think that, as a company, they have identity issues, wanting to be at one-and-the-same-time perceived as a quality act whilst still employing a "stack em high- sell em cheap" supermarket-esque business model. Where your supermarket analogy falls over though, is that supermarkets are in a market where they sell a lot of,widely available, branded products and so have to be genuinely competitive on price, in a market where like for like price comparisons are very easy to do. To this end most supermarkets offer a price match promise and even do the price comparisons for you.
PX, on the other hand, are selling their own proprietary brand, so price comparison is impossible, leaving them free to create their own illusion of what constitutes a bargain price for their product by misleading potential buyers, with silly buggers games with pricing. It's all very well for you to take the "caveat emptor" position, that if the seller makes a bad purchasing decision it's down to him being gullible, but for the uninitiated newbie to cycling is that really a fair or even rational attitude for anyone to espouse ? Shouldn't buying your first (or even second or third) bike be a pleasurable experience ? As already stated a bike is a fairly high value purchase (compared to a tin of baked beans), and PX like to present themselves a as straight forward, value for money retailer - Made in Britain in good old dependable Yorkshire, with "no nonsense" pricing - isn't that reason enough to expect them to "play it straight" , as you put it, on pricing ?
Comparing what for most of us is a luxury item purveyor,(apart from one commuter bike how much of what we buy for bikes do any of us really need ?)to a supplier of everyday essentials such as a food retailer Eg. a supermarket, is obviously not a like for like comparison. The fact that you've high-lighted just how similar supermarket marketing can be seen to be, to marketing strategy's being being employed by PX, underlines just how far far out of kilter PX's marketing is with the quality product image they'd like to impute to their bikes.
Which pretty much speaks to the nub of this discussion : Their pricing policy really isn't product, potential customer, or projected-image appropriate...0 -
Like many earlier posters I just shop for stuff based on what I'm prepared to pay, rather than any theoretical discount / saving. Bought 5 or 6 SS and LS jerseys a few years ago in one of the PX sales. They really were cheap, but the quality is excellent. Their own brand overshoes at a tenner have also been a bargain, still going strong after 5 years I think. And for a beginner, their bundles, especially clothing, are generally very good VFM.
Planet X aren't doing anything that many other retailers / supermarkets aren't. I'm forever finding in Tesco that it's cheaper to buy several single items than a multi pack, or the smaller bottle of booze is cheaper per litre than the larger one. And I swear they deliberately 'misplace' items on the shelves so you're reading the wrong price / offer.0 -
Fenix wrote:NuclearRed955 wrote:Fenix wrote:I thought PX had closed down in Edinburgh ?
I moved out to West Lothian 18 months ago & don't think I've been in that bit of town since. Wouldn't be surprised if they were gone!
Yeah sorry to break it to you :-( I almost popped in when I was up on holidays, but it was a bit of a hike from the main drag.
Turns out they shut down in January last year - only 9 months after they opened!
Hardly surprising when the shop didn't seem have a lot of stuff you could actually buy. :roll:0 -
I've not shopped with Planet X for a year or so now. Yes, the slightly grubby marketing tactics put me off, the quality of some products also. And come on PX- your Pro Carbon frame is old as the hills now, though presumably much more loved compared to the Nanolights et al that came after it. Just stop respraying it to try and justify its price tag . Keep the old colours and let us have it for about £150 instead. Might buy one then.0
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I don't know why you're so bothered about it. If you think the price is right then buy it, if you don't then don't. Its that simple. PX prices do seem to go up and down a lot but so what? Play the game right and you can get some real bargains. Over xmas I was looking to buy a Chinese frame (hong-fu FM066) direct.... lo and behold on PX had a one day sale and that exact frame (in PX colours with a UK warranty etc) was cheaper than buying it direct.... snapped it up immediately and will soon be building it into a new summer bike. I have some of their clothing and find their bib shorts in particular very comfy, although they no longer do the model that I like....0
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ravey1981 wrote:Play the game right and you can get some real bargains. Over xmas I was looking to buy a Chinese frame (hong-fu FM066) direct.... lo and behold on PX had a one day sale and that exact frame (in PX colours with a UK warranty etc) was cheaper than buying it direct.....
In those few sentences you've pretty much encapsulated what I consider to be the Planet ethos and "brand". The recipe appears to be : First off take a pricing strategy that, as you rightly acknowledge, is a total mind game. Then take a direct import Chinese frame that you could buy almost anywhere, slap on a gawdy PX paint job. Next offer a UK warranty which, as other's have attested, truly requires a British Bulldog like tenacity on the part of the purchaser to make it worth the paper it's written on, in the event of an issue.
Finally stir into that heady mix throwaway resale values and , hey presto, there you have it. "Some real bargains indeed " At the end of the day if your perception is that you have a bargain, then I suppose maybe, in a purely subjective sense, that's exactly what you have.0 -
Jeez dude. Sit on the couch and tell us what it's really about.0
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Fenix wrote:Jeez dude. Sit on the couch and tell us what it's really about.
Well Dr Fraser Crane, it's really just an observation. I've bought plenty of non PX branded stuff off of them over the years. However, much as I might have liked to, I never could quite bring myself to take their bikes seriously enough to buy one though. Partly due to the brand - which essentially only really amounts to proprietary logos and colour schemes - partly due the Sports direct type marketing/pricing . Not even at Xmas when a pro carbon frame-set was £191 in a one day sale, could I bring myself to buy one. Clearly, at that point, price was not the issue. Everyone, me included, would surely love to support a genuine, quality-act British cycling firm. I just don't see them as such.
It would appear that others feel the same way. It's really not a big issue as there are plenty of quality cycle sources/brands out there. Just a shame one of them can't be British.0 -
pastryboy wrote:
That's one very short sentence that suggests that you've done a hell of a lot of research to state that in such an unequivocal way. The fact that you have only managed one (very short) sentence more realistically suggests that you probably haven't haven't done any research, nor do you have very much at all to back up your absurd assertion.
I think that you may well be confusing company's, like Cannondale, Trek, BMC etc, that have long historys of R+D in the sport, yet outsource manufacturing of many of their own designs (to their own QC standards), with the a company (like PX) that simply buys off-the-peg generic frames and slaps a coat of paint and a logo on them...OK PX mmight not be the only firm to do this, but to suggest that business model is true of 99% of bike firms out there is complete nonsense.0 -
So Mr Arrogant, why don't you tell me what the actual difference is between a Cannondale bike and one from Planet X, Ribble or aliexpress? There are no mystical components, just different designs which can easily be copied. What's so special about the quality standards and how does it make a difference?0
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Well if my slightly too matter of fact tone came across as arrogant, that wasn't how it was intended. However, before questioning me, you really need to address the, none too small issue of backing up your, initial somewhat dogmatic statement that 99% of bike firms use the PX business model. Leave it to the politicians to answer one question with another. As for your question : the difference between a PX and a Cannondale, I think it was pretty much covered in my last post, which you appear to have barely read...0
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Being blunt or matter of fact doesn't make someone arrogant. Being presumptuous and talking down to others does.
You're misquoting/misreading. What I quoted referred to brands, not business models, i.e the difference between bikes is logos/colour schemes.
Bearing in mind the nature of a bike and the fact that the vast majority are produced by a very small number of manufacturers then where is the actual difference between them beyond logos and colour schemes (and marginally different shapes)?
If they were all painted black with no branding how would I choose between a Cannondale a Bianchi or a Planet X? R&D is all well and good but in practical terms it leads only to slightly different geometry - the QC might be better but it might not, after all it's the same basic process and materials being used in the same factory by the same people. I've seen nothing to suggest there's anything wrong with Planet X frames - seems to be many happy customers. Of course I'd rather have a Bianchi than a Planet X but I wouldn't kid myself the reason for that is I like the name/look/paintjob/prestige of the brand - none of which would give a better ride.
These are rhetorical questions by the way. If you can post any anything that disproves what I've said (at least the underlying principle of it) I'll happily read it (only actual proof would change my mind - not assumptions that brand A is best just because it's brand A) but as an exchange of opinions I think it's a dead end.0 -
Personally I have no problem with the use of open mould frames. They often build up to be excellent bikes, particularly at a lower budget. And yes, there are loads of companies that do it. I would also much rather source the same frame from PX in the UK with a warranty and protection, rather than take the lottery of ordering direct from China - unless there was a very hefty premium.
However given that essentially the only thing that differs between one companies version of an open mould and another is the paint job and brand - why would you then cheapen that brand by creating fake high RRPs on low value stuff like clothes and components then making it out that need to discount at 70% off to sell?
PX do still do some good stuff, particularly for the money but frankly I find their marketing embarrassing. The customers aren't idiots and can see though it all. I find it interesting how Wiggle have successfully moved DHB upmarket and can now sell premium ranges as competitors to the top brands, complete contrast to what PX seem to be doing.0 -
pastryboy wrote:Being blunt or matter of fact doesn't make someone arrogant. ..... talking down to others does
Well, for fear of once again being accused of talking down to you, let me reply to your initial post/assertion at a level which mirrors its ownpastyboy wrote:That applies to 99% of bikes on the market.
:roll:MikeBrew wrote:No it doesn't..
AS for your second post (excerpt below) :Pastyboy wrote:These are rhetorical questions by the way. If you can post any anything that disproves what I've said (at least the underlying principle of it) I'll happily read it (only actual proof would change my mind - not assumptions that brand A is best just because it's brand A) but as an exchange of opinions I think it's a dead end.
Once again what you've done here is post something (that doesn't even make any sense) then task someone else with "disproving" what you've said. That isn't how it(sensible/reasoned debate) works, you are the one responsible for putting substance behind you words. You can't just say "Mars is made of Blancmange..prove me wrong" There is no underlying principle to your assertions to be disproved, let alone facts. Your questions aren't rhetorical, they're nonsensical.
For instance : You contend that most bikes are made in the same factory by the same people, and ride pretty much the same as each other, and that the only real difference between brands is paint and logo ;
You haven't substantiated that ridiculous claim in any way whatsoever - it's just empty words.Pastyboy wrote:Bearing in mind the nature of a bike and the fact that the vast majority are produced by a very small number of manufacturers then where is the actual difference between them beyond logos and colour schemes (and marginally different shapes)?
after all it's the same basic process and materials being used in the same factory by the same people.
What factory, where is it, what brands do they build. Can you prove that a Cannondale minus paint and branding rides no better, in a blind test, than a PX minus paint and branding, as you've said to be the case .... No, of course you can't.
And what the hell does .... "Bearing in mind the nature of a bike"..... even mean ?
Essentially, you are asking me to explain too someone who appears not to, even vaguely, grasp what a coherent argument is(i.e. your good self), why their grammatically correct, but meaningless sentences do not constitute any sort of coherent argument.
It would be a bit like trying to explain to a horse why he can't play the piano.(you do get that a horse doesn't know what a piano is - right ? )There are other obvious problems there to overcome in the would-be pianist pony scenario, but lets keep this simple
And as far as "an exchange of ideas goes"... what ideas ? You don't appear to have any that you are willing or able to flesh out in any way, convincing or otherwise, just empty assertions - apparently picked out of thin air.0 -
I think when you first start cycling Planet X are ok. They have cheap bikes and equipment which allows most people to get into cycling. As previous post they are the "Sports Direct" of the cycling world and you get what you pay for.
Personally I've found brands such as DHB much better value. PX may be the cheapest, but if the product doesn't last it's not worth the initial low price.
I would also say you get more refinement and product performance from higher end brands. All PX do is go to China and find the cheapest product, there is very limited original design and added value.0 -
Shock horror! It transpires that more expensive products can be better!
Well, apart from the rather large number of more expensive products that aren't, of course. There are those of us who don't really give a stuff about "more refinement", whatever that means, and in most cases "product performance" means diminishing returns at best, or paying through the nose for a name at worst.
I wonder how much faster I'd go if I'd spent twice as much as I did on my bikes? Any evidence based figures?0 -
I agree with bompington's comments above.
I have a 4 year old Pro Carbon it is a good bike, I also have a Canyon Ultimate also a good bike.
The Canyon has £700 wheels and over all cost 1.5 times more than the PX, the wheels on the Pro Carbon cost £150. The ride difference re enjoyment, refinement etc is minimal, the comfort is slightly better on the Canyon mainly due to wider tyres.
I have also had shoes, jerseys and other items all still going strong used along with far more expensive brands, so as to PX quality I see no issues.
As others have said if you don't like the business model of PX then don't buy from them.0 -
I think the fact that this thread exists is evidence that Planet X's marketing strategy is not ideal. I used to view them as a low cost, direct to market offering which offered good quality no-frills kit and bikes. They seemed to be close to the race scene and their stuff was genuinely respected by people who knew their bikes. The last couple of years they have been taking the **** a bit with their pricing and their habit of respraying a frame and claiming it is something different (the Viner Gladius was just a resprayed Pro Carbon, etc).
Maybe it is working for them, but I think they would benefit from having proper differentiation between product ranges (Holdsworth = retro, Planet X = entry level + commuter, Viner = top end for example) and have sensible pricing and less frequent but genuine sales. They seem to be making an effort to sort their product range out (flogging off a lot of the end of line warehouse brands) so I am hoping they come through this current period of restructuring with a more coherent and credible range. Their stuff is still good and is still excellent value - no issue with open mold frames which they have always done and have always made an effort to source the best available at a particular price point. No issue with their kit. Also no issue with their warranties (they replaced my track frame no questions asked).
I'm hoping they can get away from the whole "Sports Direct of cycling" image which I think is unfair but I can totally get where people are coming from.0 -
If you've ever had the misfortune to go into Sports Direct - compare and contrast it to the PX shops. I'd much rather hang around in PX - so the comparison is a bit wonky.
I don't think PX do go to CHina and just find the cheapest product. The quality I've had from their kit has been excellent. I wear one of their jackets for work pretty much all year round - and its lasted me years with no ill effects. The cheapest kit from China wouldn't. Again - their overshoes have lasted me longer than more expensive brands have.0
