Compact Crank vs Semi-Compact

pinno

BigMat wrote:

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

What exactly was Wiggo's RPM? I doubt it was as low as 70 even.

97th choice

Arguing a over Wiggo's cadence is a bit like suggesting that climate change isn't real because it got colder for one year out of a hundred.

MikeBrew

Didn't Wiggo famously get dropped trying to push a 39T up climbs at Trentino.. 2013

pinno

MikeBrew wrote:

Didn't Wiggo famously get dropped trying to push a 39T up climbs at Trentino.. 2013

Was Froomy sick that day?

bigmat

He got dropped on the Angliru (as did Froome) - both should probably have been riding a compact. Point I was making is that there are arguments for lower cadence, there are arguments for higher cadence, there is definitely no such thing as a single "right" cadence. If that was the case every pro cyclist would be doing the same thing and that clearly doesn't happen.

Back to my TT on Sunday, I got passed on a fast section towards the end, checked the guy's Strava afterwards and he was commenting that his 54/11 had really helped. Basically, I was a bit undergeared with my 53/11! Although obviously nobody ever needs an 11T, and even a 52T chainring is compeleterly unnecessary!

Alex99

Pinno wrote:

BigMat wrote:

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

What exactly was Wiggo's RPM? I doubt it was as low as 70 even.

Nowhere near 70. I recall he slowed it down to just over 90 RPM. Exact numbers escape me but it's in his book.

pinno

Wiggo's hour record was at an average 105 rpm. Nuff said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo00qo0oV88

The idea that Wiggins had watched Tony Martin and decided to pedal slowly for the Worlds in 2014 suggests something other than what was intended. It was slower than he normally pedalled - probably IRO 5 to 10 rpm less as stated by Alex99.

Time/Distance BigMat? Average RPM?

milemuncher1

BigMat wrote:

He got dropped on the Angliru (as did Froome) - both should probably have been riding a compact. Point I was making is that there are arguments for lower cadence, there are arguments for higher cadence, there is definitely no such thing as a single "right" cadence. If that was the case every pro cyclist would be doing the same thing and that clearly doesn't happen.

Back to my TT on Sunday, I got passed on a fast section towards the end, checked the guy's Strava afterwards and he was commenting that his 54/11 had really helped. Basically, I was a bit undergeared with my 53/11! Although obviously nobody ever needs an 11T, and even a 52T chainring is compeleterly unnecessary!

briantrumpet

And I'm not looking. If people could resist the temptation to quote, that'd be spiffing.

bigmat

Pinno wrote:

Wiggo's hour record was at an average 105 rpm. Nuff said.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo00qo0oV88

The idea that Wiggins had watched Tony Martin and decided to pedal slowly for the Worlds in 2014 suggests something other than what was intended. It was slower than he normally pedalled - probably IRO 5 to 10 rpm less as stated by Alex99.

Time/Distance BigMat? Average RPM?

25 miles. An hour (give or take a few seconds). RPM - not quick enough!

MikeBrew

BigMat wrote:

He got dropped on the Angliru (as did Froome) - both should probably have been riding a compact. Point I was making is that there are arguments for lower cadence, there are arguments for higher cadence, there is definitely no such thing as a single "right" cadence. If that was the case every pro cyclist would be doing the same thing and that clearly doesn't happen.

Back to my TT on Sunday, I got passed on a fast section towards the end, checked the guy's Strava afterwards and he was commenting that his 54/11 had really helped. Basically, I was a bit undergeared with my 53/11! Although obviously nobody ever needs an 11T, and even a 52T chainring is compeleterly unnecessary!

With all due respect I think your use for such a gear is probably slightly different than that of the average rider who doesn't race , do TT's or have your level of fitness. It's certainly a very different use of a high gear than that of some half wit who suggested that riding a 50/11 (120inch gear) @ 40rpm , including on slopes of up to 6%, was efficient/effective....

Even if you'd ridden the whole 25 in the 53/11 (which I'm sure you didn't).. the RPM would have still been far nearer to 70RPM than to 40...

pinno

Why the smiling icon milemuncher? He was probably pedalling at a decent cadence and I just wonder how fast you could do a 10 mile TT at 40rpm.
BigMat also suggested that Froome and Wiggo should have been riding a compact up the Angliru* - higher cadence perhaps?

*Brutal and inhumane.

Hang on. I had better do a quote. On second thoughts no. It was just a smiley icon from the man in slo-mo after BigMat's post about the Angliru/a TT he was in, BrTr.

briantrumpet

Pinno wrote:

Hang on. I had better do a quote. On second thoughts no. It was just a smiley icon from the man in slo-mo after BigMat's post about the Angliru/a TT he was in, BrTr.

I'll vote for you for POTUS now, if you'll stand. You're obviously a man of discretion.

EDIT - I'm sure we can get round the niceties of neither of us being American somehow.

MikeBrew

Pinno wrote:

Why the smiling icon milemuncher?

Possibly because in his cocooned little world of cloudy reason and absurdity, he vaguely feels that it in some way supports his argument. Don't expect too much in the way of logic from someone who clearly can't do the math's. He'd probably have to remove his socks to count to 20.

milemuncher1

I love it when people say "nuff said" or "end of". It's actually completely the opposite most of the time.


It's a case of "blah blah blah [flawed / wrong stuff] blah blah-end of / nuff said"

MikeBrew

At Pinno, if you still want to try to reason with him, probably best to pitch the level of debate low, a level he can wrap his head around.. Something like :

Perhaps...Still probably a complete waste of time. Never have I known the old adage "No sense - No reason" to be quite so appropriate.

briantrumpet

MikeBrew wrote:

Possibly because in his cocooned little world of cloudy reason and absurdity, he vaguely feels that it in some way supports his argument. Don't expect too much in the way of logic from someone who clearly can't do the math's. He'd probably have to remove his socks to count to 20.

As tempting as continued personal observations are, even in the third person, they are ultimately pointless. BR has seen plenty of people who like to be contrary merely for the sake of being contrary. If they don't mix that with a little intelligence, humour and self awareness, and just remain contrary, they are just tiresome, and add nothing to BR, other than dragging us all down. Really, better not to engage at all, even in jest - it only encourages more contrariness.

MikeBrew

Well... Yes, that is very clearly true.

briantrumpet

I do very much enjoy the mix and dynamics of online forums, but after a while you can start to spot those few who spoil the experience. Thankfully not very many, and as I've said, my tolerance means that I've only ever put five people on ignore, but it's a happier place without them. And never ever stoop to the level of name-calling, unless you're Shakespeare.

MikeBrew

Forsooth, thou speakest a real truth, but sometimes the urge to say it like it is, is just too strong..

briantrumpet

MikeBrew wrote:

Forsooth, thou speakest a real truth, but sometimes the urge to say it like it is, is just too strong..

Verily, show your strength by resisting the urge, my son.

That really pisses them off. Every time you react you recharge their batteries.

pinno

briantrumpet wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

Possibly...20.

As tempting as continued personal observations are, even in the third person, they are ultimately pointless. BR has seen plenty of people who like to be contrary merely for the sake of being contrary. If they don't mix that with a little intelligence, humour and self awareness, and just remain contrary, they are just tiresome, and add nothing to BR, other than dragging us all down. Really, better not to engage at all, even in jest - it only encourages more contrariness.

I beg to differ Brian - ha ha. We've had EzyRider and the mysterious missing decals. We had the devout Muslim who believed that sex out of wedlock was disgusting and you would go to hell for it and wanted to know how to be quicker on his bike on 3 bowls of rice a day between praying 15 times a day. We have had a petrol head brummy with a German name* who's always good for the unbelievably ostentatious and unlikely, now we have Flappity gate. It's wonderful. Lewis Carol would not have needed opium for any material, just BR.

*So I hear. Might be just gossip. Not saying anything like.

You're a very naught boy BTW. How dare you suggest me being POTUS, i'm going to be Putin's successor. The Americans have proved their omnipotence in Syria. I could dish out Polonium on an industrial scale and I would.

briantrumpet

Pinno wrote:

I beg to differ Brian - ha ha. We've had EzyRider and the mysterious missing decals. We had the devout Muslim who believed that sex out of wedlock was disgusting and you would go to hell for it and wanted to know how to be quicker on his bike on 3 bowls of rice a day between praying 15 times a day. We have had a petrol head brummy with a German name* who's always good for the unbelievably ostentatious and unlikely, now we have Flappity gate. It's wonderful. Lewis Carol would not have needed opium for any material, just BR.

I dunno - three are several I've quite enjoyed, especially if there's some method in their madness - I'm still not sure that Manc33 wasn't some physics professor who knew how to wind everyone up, for instance. Maybe when it just reduces down to petty name-calling, and unintelligent trolling I lose interest, as I see enough 'dumb' elsewhere (especially in the US at the moment), and like to think that here on BR is better than that. I've never even got close to putting dennism on ignore, and quite enjoyed Frenchie's unrepentant and unquestioning hero-worshipping. And I like witty and thorough put-downs like those of the late P_Tucker. But sometimes... oh, I dunno why...

pblakeney

briantrumpet wrote:

....as I see enough 'dumb' elsewhere (especially in the US at the moment), and like to think that here on BR is better than that.......

That is usually the first step to dissappointment.

pinno

Oh yeah Manc33 - I remember him , They were the good old days.

briantrumpet

Pinno wrote:

Oh yeah Manc33 - I remember him , They were the good old days.

The butterfly of BR - here for just a short while, flitting off in all directions (well, as far as he could go an a flat earth)...

slowmart

It's surprising the amount of people who frequent the Internet who take whats said by people they don't know far too seriously.

pinno

I've never taken you too seriously Slowmart.

The list grows and long may it.

The flat earther
The rice chomping cycling Jihadist
Decal dreamer
Flappity gate
Backstreet zero...

Christ we haven't had a helmet debate in months.

milemuncher1

Slowmart wrote:

It's surprising the amount of people who frequent the Internet who take whats said by people they don't know far too seriously.

Never make that mistake, it's just the Internet. Relax, go and ride your bike.

pblakeney

Pinno wrote:

Christ we haven't had a helmet debate in months.

Geraint hasn't crashed this year. Yet.