Compact Crank vs Semi-Compact

MikeBrew

Milemuncher1 wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

Well rather than guessing at all, why don't you do some intelligent research around the subject. If you do that and still choose to furbar your own joints, that's your business. However, it's extremely dogmatic, irresponsible and (sorry to have to say it but..) downright stupid of you to attempt to propagate such absolute twaddle on a beginners forum where it could harm others, were they dafty enough to take such ill conceived ideas seriously.
Also in reply to your derisive made up term "leg flappers", a term no doubt born out of frustration that your own neurology and physiology aren't adaptive to a high cadence technique, I have a term for you with a bit more tenure in the real world. "Gum Flappers" : people who talk a lot without first engaging their brains,....

I'm speaking from a little thing called 'experience' no guess work involved. Years and years of 'experience'.

Your post is making you appear as a very insecure little person indeed. I'm sure you're not, it's just the impression I get from the pathetic attempted insulting nature of the sad sounding little posts you seem to insist on making.

Pointing out the obvious is an insult ?

No guess work involved ?

kneecruncher wrote:

my guess would be

It appears that your memory is in almost as poor a condition as your thinking furniture. Can you really not remember what you said a couple of posts back...


I won't engage with you any more lest I give you a platform to talk more shite..

milemuncher1

briantrumpet wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

I'm speaking from a little thing called 'experience' no guess work involved. Years and years of 'experience'.

Ah, so personal anecdote trumps science. Fine. That rules out any rational debate. At least we know.

As a man ( probably ) once said. If you want to know how to play the organ, ask the organ grinder, not the monkey.

milemuncher1

Simon Masterson wrote:

Milemuncher1 wrote:

MikeBrew wrote:

I think I'd be more curious about how much knee cartilage he'd needlessly destroyed...

None, would be my guess. The pedalling technique of a high gear / low cadence rider is very different to that of a leg flapper. Personally speaking, I have the longest cranks I can find, and I'm fitted to the bike, to allow me to use the whole of my leg, with the load being applied equally by hip, knee, and ankle. It does look odd, to those who are unaccustomed to it, but if you get it right, it's a bit like a fighter, who trains to use his whole body, behind a punch, rather than just poking his arm out, or the difference in a heel striker, rather than a ball of foot striker, in running. There aren't many heel striking 100 m sprinters, there aren't many ball of foot striking Marathon runners.

In the nicest possible way, this is absolute nonsense.

Aww bless.

briantrumpet

Aha, so we're onto 'banter' mode now, and avoiding any engagement with reason.

Time to ignore.

pinno

Conversation with Cadel Evans just before the final TT on the penultimate stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Won at an average 105rpm with 3 weeks of riding in his legs over rolling terrain.

Conversation with Chris Froome just before that Ventoux stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Conversation with Greg Lemond on the last day of the 1989 TdF just before that stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow Laurent Fignon away..."

Conversation with Kurt Sevogel prior to breaking Tommy Goodwins record of 75,000 miles in one year:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Conversation with Dr Hutch prior to winning countless and often consecutive TT records:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

I just wonder why none of these b@stards ever listened? :roll:

briantrumpet

Looking on the bright side, tonight I've increased the number of people on 'ignore' by 20%.... to 5. My tolerance for ignorance is quite high, but there comes a point when it's just too much effort.

pblakeney

briantrumpet wrote:

Looking on the bright side, tonight I've increased the number of people on 'ignore' by 20%.... to 5. My tolerance for ignorance is quite high, but there comes a point when it's just too much effort.

Bet you still take a sneaky peak though.

pinno

briantrumpet wrote:

Looking on the bright side, tonight I've increased the number of people on 'ignore' by 20%.... to 5. My tolerance for ignorance is quite high, but there comes a point when it's just too much effort.

So you listen to... sums...tricky sum...20 people. What about the rest?

I suppose it's like pole and line instead of dragnet fishing.

dennisn

Milemuncher1 wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

At the risk of doing a maccavity, here's the first link I came up with... from someone who seems to know a bit about knees...

http://www.kneeclinic.info/knee_sports_ ... ycling.php

"Generally using shorter cranks keeps pedal speed up and knee stress down. Too long crank arms increase forces on the entire knee, but patellar and quadriceps tendons are most affected."

If you are positioned / fitted badly.

How would you or anyone know if you were " positioned / fitted badly"?
Certainly not by reading anything on this site. I must have seen thousands of varying opinions on this forum.

briantrumpet

PBlakeney wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

Looking on the bright side, tonight I've increased the number of people on 'ignore' by 20%.... to 5. My tolerance for ignorance is quite high, but there comes a point when it's just too much effort.

Bet you still take a sneaky peak though.

Rarely, once I've done the deed, unless someone inconsiderately quotes the ignorance. My previous four 'ignores' are all long departed from here, I think.

pinno

Did someone post something?

MikeBrew

Pinno wrote:

Did someone post something?

Apparently the grinder has been at his organ again....

The Organ ,AKA Grinder wrote:

If you want to know how to play the organ, ask the organ : grinder

Hasn't anyone told him he'll go blind ?

briantrumpet

Pinno wrote:

Did someone post something?

simon_masterson

Pinno wrote:

Conversation with Cadel Evans just before the final TT on the penultimate stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Won at an average 105rpm with 3 weeks of riding in his legs over rolling terrain.

Conversation with Chris Froome just before that Ventoux stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Conversation with Greg Lemond on the last day of the 1989 TdF just before that stage of the TdF:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow Laurent Fignon away..."

Conversation with Kurt Sevogel prior to breaking Tommy Goodwins record of 75,000 miles in one year:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

Conversation with Dr Hutch prior to winning countless and often consecutive TT records:

"Listen mate, never mind that flappity leg stuff, you need to pedal at 40rpm - stick to it rigidly, you'll blow the opposition away..."

I just wonder why none of these b@stards ever listened? :roll:

Nik Bowdler probably deserves a mention here, but as far as I can tell all he's objectively done is train himself to ride at 60rpm in a huge gear.

pinno

That ^ is an unearthly 1 revolution per second. My god, that is serious lag flapping. If he keeps that up, his legs will fall off.

simon_masterson

Either that or take off. How much flapping is needed to generate sufficient lift, and do you have to do it with your arms as well?

briantrumpet

Simon Masterson wrote:

Either that or take off. How much flapping is needed to generate sufficient lift, and do you have to do it with your arms as well?

Doesn't work for Chris Froome, despite valiant efforts.

pinno

Simon Masterson wrote:

Either that or take off. How much flapping is needed to generate sufficient lift, and do you have to do it with your arms as well?

Are you an anti-flapper or a flapper?

I think that if I tried to sustain 40rpm, i'd fall off as soon as I hit an incline... oh hang on.

At what speed does the gyroscopic effect stop?

milemuncher1

briantrumpet wrote:

Here's what FSA say:

"Longer cranks can make it harder to sprint, as it’s harder to maintain leverage for as much of each revolution as with shorter cranks. In other words, it’s harder to pedal smoothly. They also straighten your knee at the bottom of the stroke and force it into your chest at the top, which can lead to pain and injury in knees and hips. Your lower back may also suffer."

But, hey, what do they know? Obviously they have no experience of bikes or cyclists.

If you're positioned badly / not fitted correctly.

milemuncher1

I'll keep to riding my bike, the way that suits me, and I'll let you guys give each other the cyber ball cup / reach around ( in the box I've just discovered this site has ).

97th choice

I'm genuinely concerned by some of the advice being offered on this thread, it's completely at odds with well researched standard advice, irrelevant, unsubstantiated and could lead to someone being injured if they follow it.

pblakeney

97th choice wrote:

I'm genuinely concerned by some of the advice being offered on this thread, it's completely at odds with well researched standard advice, irrelevant, unsubstantiated and could lead to someone being injured if they follow it.

If you had added possible death, I may have presumed you worked for Campagnolo.

milemuncher1

97th choice wrote:

I'm genuinely concerned by some of the advice being offered on this thread, it's completely at odds with well researched standard advice, irrelevant, unsubstantiated and could lead to someone being injured if they follow it.

Or not, if they actually read everything, and not misquote the parts they choose to, out of context.

milemuncher1

PBlakeney wrote:

97th choice wrote:

I'm genuinely concerned by some of the advice being offered on this thread, it's completely at odds with well researched standard advice, irrelevant, unsubstantiated and could lead to someone being injured if they follow it.

If you had added possible death, I may have presumed you worked for Campagnolo.

bigmat

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

milemuncher1

BigMat wrote:

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

^^
This is it in a nutshell. It's whatever works best for you. It's the ultimate underpants test.

97th choice

Milemuncher1 wrote:

BigMat wrote:

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

^^
This is it in a nutshell. It's whatever works best for you. It's the ultimate underpants test.

If all options were equal, but assuming that conventional, proven, wisdom on the subject follows a standard distribution then what works for you will probably won't work for 99.7% of everyone else.

bompington

Milemuncher1 wrote:

This is it in a nutshell. It's whatever works best for you, then you use it to lecture, berate and abuse everyone else

FTFY

simon_masterson

BigMat wrote:

After coming second in the 2013 Worlds TT championships, Brad Wiggins studied the winner Tony Martin's style and noted that he had a slower cadence. After doing some research his coaching team concluded that a bigger gear and a slower cadence would result in a more efficient style. He came back and won the following year.

Point is, it isn't a black and white issue, its a developing science and in any event different styles suit different riders (just compare Cancellara's "flappy legs" with the likes of Ullrich, Gontchar or Tony Martin).

Milmuncher's approach does seem a bit extreme, but if it works for him then great.

That logic could be used to justify a lot of ineffective methods, though. In the example you mentioned, we're talking about Wiggins going from a significantly higher cadence than most road riders use to one much closer to what most would call 'normal' - in the name of trying to save a few seconds. As per my example above, Nik Bowdler is a better case in point here, but does riding at 60rpm in a gigantic gear really suit him, or has he trained his body to be able to? The human body is quite good at adapting.

MikeBrew

Not sure that someone who would be made to wear water wings before being allowed near a bowl of soup, warrants any more replies at all...If he wants to wreck his knees pushing a big gear @ 40rpm, ride long distances very slowly, and talk utter, un-reasoned shite, on the internet to get attention ... Let him get on with it. He clearly has a lot of spare time on his hands. :idea:
The main thing is that no absolute beginners are going to take him even remotely seriously, now that he's so clearly and comprehensively illustrated his level of delusion for all all to see. Side show over, nothing new to see here.