Donald Trump

rjsterry

Just been on the UK Government petition site. The petition against Trump making a State Visit is gaining about 1000 names a minute and is at about 740,000 as I write this. Likely to be over a million by the morning, I'd guess. TM now seems to be in damage limitation mode.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Just been on the UK Government petition site. The petition against Trump making a State Visit is gaining about 1000 names a minute and is at about 740,000 as I write this. Likely to be over a million by the morning, I'd guess. TM now seems to be in damage limitation mode.

Haha - quite funny to see that ticking up by about 250 per 10 seconds now.

rjsterry

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Just been on the UK Government petition site. The petition against Trump making a State Visit is gaining about 1000 names a minute and is at about 740,000 as I write this. Likely to be over a million by the morning, I'd guess. TM now seems to be in damage limitation mode.

Haha - quite funny to see that ticking up by about 250 per 10 seconds now.

Now over 820,000. More than 1000 per minute.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Just been on the UK Government petition site. The petition against Trump making a State Visit is gaining about 1000 names a minute and is at about 740,000 as I write this. Likely to be over a million by the morning, I'd guess. TM now seems to be in damage limitation mode.

Haha - quite funny to see that ticking up by about 250 per 10 seconds now.

Now over 820,000. More than 1000 per minute.

More than at his inauguration.

tangled_metal

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

Very easy to sneer. Who knows, but if it adds one more bit of pressure to delay a State Visit, which may in turn add a bit more pressure on DT to change his policy, then it's worth doing.

tangled_metal

DT feel this pressure? He's got a lot more pressure in his own country.

It is very easy to sneer when something is as unlikely to amount to much. Like a bunch of people on the internet effectively shouting into the wilderness.

Besides i don't actually agree with it. He's head of state as elected by the system in place. They're democracy is the match of ours. Plus the head of state is elected so perhaps more democratic. You might not respect the guy but respect the office. That's my view. Besides imagine a country like France banning a visit by the queen because she's unelected or her government is saying things they don't like.

You might oppose his policies but you have no legitimate right to force your views on him or punish him for it. He's not specifically breached human rights any more than the other presidents did in the first few months. So hate his rhetoric and policies all you like but i do not think any head of state that has the checks and balances he has should be banned from a state visit.

As far as how soon it is, we got first visit for our pm. Why not arrange an early visit to keep the "relationship" going? If UK PMs are able to temper his actions or influence him it's for tree greater good.

veronese68

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

Very easy to sneer. Who knows, but if it adds one more bit of pressure to delay a State Visit, which may in turn add a bit more pressure on DT to change his policy, then it's worth doing.

Exactly.
Besides, we should let him come. Then mess him around in customs at Heathrow for a few hours before telling him he looks a bit orange so we don't want him and putting him on the next plane back.

rjsterry

Veronese68 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

Very easy to sneer. Who knows, but if it adds one more bit of pressure to delay a State Visit, which may in turn add a bit more pressure on DT to change his policy, then it's worth doing.

Exactly.
Besides, we should let him come. Then mess him around in customs at Heathrow for a few hours before telling him he looks a bit orange so we don't want him and putting him on the next plane back.

It's worth pointing out that the petition is against a formal state visit, rather than any visit at all. That said, I can think of no better time for a protest against Heathrow expansion, followed by cab drivers protesting against Uber.

briantrumpet

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

Very easy to sneer. Who knows, but if it adds one more bit of pressure to delay a State Visit, which may in turn add a bit more pressure on DT to change his policy, then it's worth doing.

For a complete narcissist like Trump, for whom image is everything, having a meeting with the Queen snatched away would be devastating. As witnessed by his reaction to the suggestion that the crowds for his inauguration were small, these things matter greatly to him.

blobbo

I went to look at the petition, only to find it said I had already signed it, which I did not knowingly do. Suspicious to say the least. Is it just me ?

bendertherobot

briantrumpet wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

Yes it's good people have a good but useless way to vent from the comfort of their homes/offices/universities. These petitions, have they ever had an effect on what happens? Democracy in action?

Very easy to sneer. Who knows, but if it adds one more bit of pressure to delay a State Visit, which may in turn add a bit more pressure on DT to change his policy, then it's worth doing.

For a complete narcissist like Trump, for whom image is everything, having a meeting with the Queen snatched away would be devastating. As witnessed by his reaction to the suggestion that the crowds for his inauguration were small, these things matter greatly to him.

One where he had to drive through throngs of protestors, under heavy security, hounded by good press, ticked off by Charles and asked by Kate about the twitter thing would be infinitely better. They're really scared of Charles, he will be chomping to get to meet him.

kingstongraham

The last but one state visit was from Xi Jinping.

bendertherobot

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ?CMP=fb_gu

Has to have stuff explained to him

rjsterry

blobbo wrote:

I went to look at the petition, only to find it said I had already signed it, which I did not knowingly do. Suspicious to say the least. Is it just me ?

A little odd. You have to supply a name email and postcode, with a confirmation email sent out and your signature not counted until you click the confirmation link. Is someone else using your email?

bendertherobot

https://trofire.com/2017/01/29/donald-t ... rn-office/

This is complicated, and clever, it has to be said. And worrying.

veronese68

rjsterry wrote:

blobbo wrote:

I went to look at the petition, only to find it said I had already signed it, which I did not knowingly do. Suspicious to say the least. Is it just me ?

A little odd. You have to supply a name email and postcode, with a confirmation email sent out and your signature not counted until you click the confirmation link. Is someone else using your email?

If you have signed a petition before could it be done as a one click thing? Does anybody else in your house use your email or computer. If you are certain you didn't do it you could tell Trump and he can add it to his voter fraud paranoia.
Thinking about it Hope not Hate were sending a letter asking for him not to be asked, that can be done as a one click thing. Looking at it may have been enough to sign it. The proper government petition has to be done as RJS says with the email confirmation.

tangled_metal

Just one point about POTUS they use their own airforce one and IIRC it flies into a private/secured area of i think Stanstead. Along with backup plane and a 757 loaded with kit/personnel. Airport gets shut down and same with main roads on the route he will take to his destination. I doubt any press gets near without his permission. He'll not notice protesters i reckon. Either way most POTUS have had protesters on state visitors. Hardly much pressure that way.

Sorry but it's not going to succeed or have any influence on DT. What it will possibly do is force the speaker to table a debating time if enough signatures are received on the official government petition site. It'll be 10 minutes late on, mid week and sandwiched between two longer but administrative debates. The last bit will mean MPs will dash out for comfort breaks before the second more significant debate. There will only be a handful of MPs keeping seats warm while waiting for the debate after it or some minor MPs using it to get noticed. Or even some more widely known troublemakers out to show their right on status as a protest MP. Before Corbyn took over the Labour party I'd have thought he'd do this sort of debate.

Sorry for being so cynical. I actually don't want to cosy up to him if he does half of what he campaigned on. I just don't believe petitions work. I mean, IIRC it was a Blair invention this government petition site. It's not really meant to work you know. It's just spin!

Garry H

People objecting to the democratically elected representative of the world's most powerful nation, meeting up with someone with "God's right" to rule. How I'm laughing.

bendertherobot

Tangled Metal wrote:

Just one point about POTUS they use their own airforce one and IIRC it flies into a private/secured area of i think Stanstead. Along with backup plane and a 757 loaded with kit/personnel. Airport gets shut down and same with main roads on the route he will take to his destination. I doubt any press gets near without his permission. He'll not notice protesters i reckon. Either way most POTUS have had protesters on state visitors. Hardly much pressure that way.

Sorry but it's not going to succeed or have any influence on DT. What it will possibly do is force the speaker to table a debating time if enough signatures are received on the official government petition site. It'll be 10 minutes late on, mid week and sandwiched between two longer but administrative debates. The last bit will mean MPs will dash out for comfort breaks before the second more significant debate. There will only be a handful of MPs keeping seats warm while waiting for the debate after it or some minor MPs using it to get noticed. Or even some more widely known troublemakers out to show their right on status as a protest MP. Before Corbyn took over the Labour party I'd have thought he'd do this sort of debate.

Sorry for being so cynical. I actually don't want to cosy up to him if he does half of what he campaigned on. I just don't believe petitions work. I mean, IIRC it was a Blair invention this government petition site. It's not really meant to work you know. It's just spin!

There's no secret tunnel to the Palace

benws1

I must admit that I'm finding this whole thing rather amusing. There are a lot of angry people around.

It could be worse. Clinton could have won. :shock:

joenobody

This makes for interesting, if scary, reading

rjsterry

Garry H wrote:

People objecting to the democratically elected representative of the world's most powerful nation, meeting up with someone with "God's right" to rule. How I'm laughing.

Divine Right went out with the English Civil War. Do try and keep up.

The petition isn't about whether DT can visit, just whether he gets the honorary events and meetings. Not sure he's done anything to deserve any such honour.

As for the petition not achieving anything, there is already considerable pressure from several MPs across all parties, for an urgent debate on our response to the ban. A ban which affects UK citizens with dual nationality, despite the FCO believing it had secured an exemption.

coopster_the_1st

Tangled Metal is making valid points regarding the usefulness of petitions and respecting the American political system.

Protesting does not work. One million people protested in the streets against Gulf War II and it still went ahead. How much notice is going to be taken by one million people spending a couple of minutes clicking a few internet links?

blobbo

Veronese68 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

blobbo wrote:

I went to look at the petition, only to find it said I had already signed it, which I did not knowingly do. Suspicious to say the least. Is it just me ?

A little odd. You have to supply a name email and postcode, with a confirmation email sent out and your signature not counted until you click the confirmation link. Is someone else using your email?

If you have signed a petition before could it be done as a one click thing? Does anybody else in your house use your email or computer. If you are certain you didn't do it you could tell Trump and he can add it to his voter fraud paranoia.
Thinking about it Hope not Hate were sending a letter asking for him not to be asked, that can be done as a one click thing. Looking at it may have been enough to sign it. The proper government petition has to be done as RJS says with the email confirmation.

Work Computer (shhh don't tell anyone I am here) and iPhone both imply not signed, have signed other petitions on iPad, so will check that when I get home tonight.

Won't make any difference though, he and a boat load of fake tan are still going to come.

pblakeney

Is DT really that bad*?
I mean, he is only doing what Brexiteers want to do.

*Yes, I think he is.

coopster_the_1st

benws1 wrote:

I must admit that I'm finding this whole thing rather amusing. There are a lot of angry people around.

It could be worse. Clinton could have won. :shock:

Wasn't a great choice put forward to the American electorate, was it?

Personally I'm bored of DT dominating the news already. The US system is a mature democracy with inbuilt checks and balances. We should respect the US system and leave their electorate to it.

I only agree with DT on one policy and that is his approach taken to NATO. Too many countries are free loading on the back of others, many of them unsurprisingly within the EU, so I hope he quickly achieves getting all members to meet their 2% of GDP spending on defence

bendertherobot

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Tangled Metal is making valid points regarding the usefulness of petitions and respecting the American political system.

Protesting does not work. One million people protested in the streets against Gulf War II and it still went ahead. How much notice is going to be taken by one million people spending a couple of minutes clicking a few internet links?

If it gets under the skin of a narcissist, it's working.

bendertherobot

Coopster the 1st wrote:

benws1 wrote:

I must admit that I'm finding this whole thing rather amusing. There are a lot of angry people around.

It could be worse. Clinton could have won. :shock:

Wasn't a great choice put forward to the American electorate, was it?

Personally I'm bored of DT dominating the news already. The US system is a mature democracy with inbuilt checks and balances. We should respect the US system and leave their electorate to it.

I only agree with DT on one policy and that is his approach taken to NATO. Too many countries are free loading on the back of others, many of them unsurprisingly within the EU, so I hope he quickly achieves getting all members to meet their 2% of GDP spending on defence

In built? He bypassed even internal checks and balances to draft this one. Some Courts have stepped in. Others not. And the Judiciary is no longer listed on the White House page as part of that system.

rjsterry

blobbo wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

blobbo wrote:

I went to look at the petition, only to find it said I had already signed it, which I did not knowingly do. Suspicious to say the least. Is it just me ?

A little odd. You have to supply a name email and postcode, with a confirmation email sent out and your signature not counted until you click the confirmation link. Is someone else using your email?

If you have signed a petition before could it be done as a one click thing? Does anybody else in your house use your email or computer. If you are certain you didn't do it you could tell Trump and he can add it to his voter fraud paranoia.
Thinking about it Hope not Hate were sending a letter asking for him not to be asked, that can be done as a one click thing. Looking at it may have been enough to sign it. The proper government petition has to be done as RJS says with the email confirmation.

Work Computer (shhh don't tell anyone I am here) and iPhone both imply not signed, have signed other petitions on iPad, so will check that when I get home tonight.

Won't make any difference though, he and a boat load of fake tan are still going to come.

Sure but there's a difference between a visit and a full State Visit with parades, banquets, etc. Protest doesn't always work, but it certainly can do.