Donald Trump

mamba80

Mr Goo wrote:

I think we shall see the withdrawal of most of the US forces in Europe. The UK and Europe should not be reliant on another country to defend them. And clearly even in the Obama administration there was American frustration at the lack of spending from Euorpean countries on defence.
The Royal Navy will take delivery of two new aircraft carriers, and aparently there are only enough personnel to have one at sea at any time. Not forgetting the fiasco over the selection of which variant of the F35 to acquire an the £ millions wasted.
The UK should ditch Trident 2 (nobody is ever going to press the button) and plough the money into conventional military hardware an recruitment.

The UK needs to act soon before Trump withdraws from places like Lakenheath.

We could also look to an air launched weapon and landbased one too, apparently a huge saving over Trident 2.

we are apparently dependant on the french for frigate cover for these Aircraft carriers, Brexit is starting to look like a great idea......

rolf_f

mamba80 wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

I think we shall see the withdrawal of most of the US forces in Europe. The UK and Europe should not be reliant on another country to defend them. And clearly even in the Obama administration there was American frustration at the lack of spending from Euorpean countries on defence.
The Royal Navy will take delivery of two new aircraft carriers, and aparently there are only enough personnel to have one at sea at any time. Not forgetting the fiasco over the selection of which variant of the F35 to acquire an the £ millions wasted.
The UK should ditch Trident 2 (nobody is ever going to press the button) and plough the money into conventional military hardware an recruitment.

The UK needs to act soon before Trump withdraws from places like Lakenheath.

We could also look to an air launched weapon and landbased one too, apparently a huge saving over Trident 2.

we are apparently dependant on the french for frigate cover for these Aircraft carriers, Brexit is starting to look like a great idea......

I'm sure that if we shout loudly at the French for long enough they'll agree to keep providing frigate cover without charge.

bondurant

bompington wrote:

Bondurant wrote:

One other point also, on the Marshall Plan. On one hand, to rebuild Europe after the war. On the other, if you think about what countries the money went to and how the US saw communism, the Marshall Plan was also an ideological buffer against the USSR.

This is not to say we don't owe the US a lot, just to point out some realpolitik that worked out well for us.

True, but "worked out well for us" - the UK was specifically excluded from the Marshall plan, with the deliberate intention of making sure that we couldn't ever challenge to be the dominant nation again.

That's not the case I don't think (that the UK was excluded)?

bendertherobot

Muslim ban/registry today then.

bompington

Errr... just presenting alternative facts....

... turns out my clear and accurate memory of school history was total mince :oops:. I really have no idea where that came from then...

kingstongraham

Pinno wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Given Trump's pseudo isolationist stance I will be interested to see how much of the US armed forces are withdrawn from Europe.
He has stated that it's not the USAs job to defend Europe. Quite honestly he is right.

NATO is intrinsically linked to the UN Security council and we know Trump's feelings towards those institutions.
Withdrawing US troops is effectively another stepping down from the cold war. A good thing really so long as Trump doesn't see China as the new global 'threat'. If Trump is intent on this protectionist route, it will ultimately result in economic conflict with China - then China becomes the new enemy to blame when the protectionist policies start to fail.

If he goes through with the plan to block China in the South China Sea, it might not only be an economic conflict. At that point, Europe needs to stand on its own two feet, because the US won't have the capability.

Also, if the other signatories to the TPP renegotiate and include China, I can't see that being positive for the US. Over 4 years, the economy will probably grow, but he could be sowing the seeds of the end of the USA as the global power.

rick_chasey

Bunch of journos going to court after being arrested when they were covering unrest at the inauguration.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ion-unrest

Should be a decent test of the system - if it works, they should bet found innocent (unless some rather unusual evidence comes up - I saw some of their journalism - was surprised they were arrested).

bendertherobot

Ultimately, if it goes tits up, he could find himself needing to be an ambassador and say, well, sorry.

Trump doesn't say sorry.

rick_chasey

Re US history & marshal etc.

Does amuse me how much people praise the self interest in the Marshall plan (building up the economies for US companies to sell stuff to!), and at the same time bristle with rage at the prospect of contributing to EU funding (which gets transferred to Eastern Europe - a part of the world ravaged by Soviet oppression).

Anyway, I just note Trump as a real end of an era - when the US stood behind Europe and supported it in its ambitions to become again a world leading light for free speech and democracy.

rolf_f

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bunch of journos going to court after being arrested when they were covering unrest at the inauguration.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/ ... ion-unrest

Should be a decent test of the system - if it works, they should bet found innocent (unless some rather unusual evidence comes up - I saw some of their journalism - was surprised they were arrested).

Evidence? What evidence? "Fact" based evidence or "alternative fact" based evidence.

Lets face it, he's going to get shot.

bendertherobot

The wall thing, and fines to the cities not doing anything. Those are, San Diego aside, predominantly Trump supporting cities?

mfin

In case it hasn't been posted, enjoy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RMwjaZouNY

bianchimoon

The real true story about that inauguration, from the Washington Post...

The crowd was magnificent and huge, bigger than any crowd had ever been before! It stretched all the way to the moon. The Pope, who was there, confirmed it.

“Thanks for being here, Pope,” Donald Trump told him.

“Are you kidding? You’re my best friend,” the Pope said. “I wouldn’t miss your big day for anything!” He gave Donald Trump a big high-five.

Everyone in the world had come there at great expense. They sold all their possessions — their homes, their “Hamilton” tickets, which were worthless to them — to raise money to come and see this great sight. They could not believe that a perfect being such as Donald Trump even existed. They thought that he was a myth or a legend or a decades-long series of fabrications.

But then they saw him, and their doubts fell away.

The media was there, too, and they were very sorry. “Donald,” the newscasters said, “we were mean to you. We used to laugh and call you names. We were no better than all of the other reindeer. How can you ever forgive us?”

“Forgive you?” Donald Trump asked. “I’ve already forgotten.” He smiled a big, beautiful smile. That was just who Donald Trump was: forgiving, like Jesus, but blond.

It was a wonderful start to the day.

Everyone liked Donald Trump’s speech and the words that he used. They liked even more the part where he rolled up his sleeve and showed off his bicep. It was a great bicep. It made the Rock so upset to see it that he threw something down on the ground and said “darn.”


The scene in Washington on Inauguration Day
View Photos Trump supporters and protesters gather in the capital as a new presidency begins.
Donald Trump pulled out a violin and played a solo, and then he pulled out a guitar and played an even sicker solo. The whole ground was soon covered with women’s undergarments. (Millions of women were there to support Donald Trump, and they were all AT LEAST sevens.) Also, every woman that Donald Trump had ever dated was there, and they were not upset with him, just ashamed that they had not lived up to his required standard.


“Trump! Trump! Trump!” the crowd cheered.

Donald Trump touched many people in the crowd in a way that they all thought was welcome and appropriate, and he cured their ailments, from cancer to autism.

“If only we could bottle your touch,” someone said, “children could stop getting vaccinated altogether.”

Donald Trump winked. “Don’t worry!” he said. “I’m on it!”

Then Donald Trump served loaves and fishes to everyone there. There were enough loaves and fishes for everyone, and they all were Made in America and said “TRUMP” on them. It was like the Oscars, but also like Woodstock, but also like the Super Bowl, but also like the Sermon on the Mount. If you were not there, you should just go home and die, because nothing in your life will have purpose or meaning by comparison, not even holding your newborn child in your arms or having health insurance. This is what FOMO was talking about for all these years.

Bono, and Bruce Springsteen, and Elton John, and the Rolling Stones, and Beyonce, and all the top artists were there. They fought hard over who would be allowed to sing. Finally Bruce Springsteen won. Bono cried and cried, and the other artists had to console him. When Bruce Springsteen had finished singing, he walked over to Donald Trump, extended his hand, and said, “You are the only real hero left in the world.”

The people were so excited that they built a very special stone pyramid just for Donald Trump so that he would not have to wait until he died to see what his monument would look like. But they were silly to be concerned. Donald Trump will never die!

A little child was in the audience, and he started to cry because the emperor was wearing so many clothes. Also, he could tell that he was not and never had been racist.

Donald Trump’s beautiful big family was there. His favorite childhood dog was there, too, back from the farm where he still lives to this day.

Donald Trump can talk to the animals, and his eyes are lasers. When the floor is lava, Donald Trump can walk on it, but only Donald Trump. When Donald Trump points his finger at you, you have to lie down. But when other people point their fingers at Donald Trump, he does not have to. Donald Trump’s block tower is the biggest. He does not need a nap or a snack. He has the longest, biggest attention span. Everyone loves Donald Trump, and what he has to say interests them.


Donald Trump is the star. People love him.

He won the popular vote, too.

thegreatdivide

Wow! That's a beautiful thing.

bianchimoon

thegreatdivide wrote:

Wow! That's a beautiful thing.

Unbelievable

mr_goo

Yes. That is a very funny story from the Washington Post.

webboo

Just watching the BCC news and there was 3 Trump fans singing Woody Guthrie's This is my land. Somewhat ironic. One of them went on to say I pray god will stop the immigrants coming across the border.
Are they really as thick as they appear.

pinno

Webboo wrote:

Just watching the BCC news and there was 3 Trump fans singing Woody Guthrie's This is my land. Somewhat ironic. One of them went on to say I pray god will stop the immigrants coming across the border.
Are they really as thick as they appear.

Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL8_-3QkgZQ

mr_goo

Well he may be a despicable man with little hands but he certainly is cracking on with the job. That wall will be finished by Friday next week at this rate.

ballysmate

Pinno wrote:

Webboo wrote:

Just watching the BCC news and there was 3 Trump fans singing Woody Guthrie's This is my land. Somewhat ironic. One of them went on to say I pray god will stop the immigrants coming across the border.
Are they really as thick as they appear.

Yep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL8_-3QkgZQ

Sad thing is, you could make a similar vid in any one of our towns in the UK.
But it always feels good for us Europeans to look down on Americans doesn't it?

veronese68

Webboo wrote:

Just watching the BCC news and there was 3 Trump fans singing Woody Guthrie's This is my land. Somewhat ironic. One of them went on to say I pray god will stop the immigrants coming across the border.
Are they really as thick as they appear.

As I saw written somewhere you can't claim you're pro life if you believe once a sperm and an egg have joined it's a human life, but object to helping refugees.

rolf_f

I wonder if the special relationship would survive sanctions being put in place against America........

bianchimoon

Wanting a special relationship with a president that wants to bring back torture, build a wall, deny womens rights, withdraw from the UN, gag scientists, deny affordable healthcare to millions, when america goes low... we go lower

rjsterry

Veronese68 wrote:

Webboo wrote:

Just watching the BCC news and there was 3 Trump fans singing Woody Guthrie's This is my land. Somewhat ironic. One of them went on to say I pray god will stop the immigrants coming across the border.
Are they really as thick as they appear.

As I saw written somewhere you can't claim you're pro life if you believe once a sperm and an egg have joined it's a human life, but object to helping refugees.

I caught 30 seconds of a documentary on the American so-called pro-life movement the other night. Just enough to catch the sentence "if that little bunch of cells could talk it would say I don’t want to die".

What?!

rolf_f

bianchimoon wrote:

Wanting a special relationship with a president that wants to bring back torture, build a wall, deny womens rights, withdraw from the UN, gag scientists, deny affordable healthcare to millions, when america goes low... we go lower

"We're gonna have the best torture. I've got the best torturers. It really works." No, I doubt that I would want a relationship with the US right now, special or otherwise. It's hard to see that any relationship can be productive given Trumps attitude to pretty much everything.

rjsterry

Some vaguely reassuring comments coming from Sen. John Thune, which suggest that Congress is not keen on protectionism.

bendertherobot

https://twitter.com/AltNatParkSer?lang=en-gb

He's really annoyed the National Parks Service.

mr_goo

bianchimoon wrote:

Wanting a special relationship with a president that wants to bring back torture, build a wall, deny womens rights, withdraw from the UN, gag scientists, deny affordable healthcare to millions, when america goes low... we go lower

Lots of sweeping statements there. I'm no fan of Trump. But I'd like you to back up your statements with hard facts.
Obama within his first couple of days sanctioned a drone strike which killed innocent civilians. And a couple of days later made a joking comment about it at a party he hosted for his daughters.

Let's get some perspective. Trump ain't a Saint. But neither was Obama or any of the preceeding Presidents.
If Trump stops USA from becoming the world police and not getting involved in conflict and not promoting democracy where it's never existed. Surely that's a good thing rather than the blood shed of the last couple of decades.

bendertherobot

Mr Goo wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Wanting a special relationship with a president that wants to bring back torture, build a wall, deny womens rights, withdraw from the UN, gag scientists, deny affordable healthcare to millions, when america goes low... we go lower

Lots of sweeping statements there. I'm no fan of Trump. But I'd like you to back up your statements with hard facts.
Obama within his first couple of days sanctioned a drone strike which killed innocent civilians. And a couple of days later made a joking comment about it at a party he hosted for his daughters.

Let's get some perspective. Trump ain't a Saint. But neither was Obama or any of the preceeding Presidents.
If Trump stops USA from becoming the world police and not getting involved in conflict and not promoting democracy where it's never existed. Surely that's a good thing rather than the blood shed of the last couple of decades.

Is that an alt fact? So, he came to power in 2008, what drone strike was 2008? Is the joke you're referring to the Jonas brothers one in 2010?

bendertherobot

Trump's already on his anyway.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2682564/u ... ike-yemen/