paris
Comments
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We will have to agree to disagree on this Bally, and move on.
My thoughts as well. If I could shake your hand across the ether, I would.
No worries !
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Just watched Hilary Benn's speech. That is the sort of speech befitting a statesman and probably closest encapsulates my views on the issue. Cameron's 'Terrorist sympathisers' remark was ill judged and his failure to apologise even more so.
If Tony Benn was alive he'd be demanding a paternity test.
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That was a pretty conclusive majority with a good degree of cross party support for the motion. Although insignificant in terms of numbers, I note that 75% of Lib Dem MPs voted for the motion, including the party leader."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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Just watched Hilary Benn's speech. That is the sort of speech befitting a statesman and probably closest encapsulates my views on the issue. Cameron's 'Terrorist sympathisers' remark was ill judged and his failure to apologise even more so.
If Tony Benn was alive he'd be demanding a paternity test.
^this.
i think TonyBenn was spinning in his grave
of course it was a speech befitting a future contender for the labour party leadership, i was hoping to be persuaded to support bombing but i wasnt.
unless the civil war is stopped then the killing and destruction of the country will continue, regardless of what happens to IS.
IS leadership is apparently relocating to Libya, get ready for another marathon debate
Poor Syria, when the war stops, what will be left of their economy or their people.0 -
Just watched Hilary Benn's speech. That is the sort of speech befitting a statesman and probably closest encapsulates my views on the issue. Cameron's 'Terrorist sympathisers' remark was ill judged and his failure to apologise even more so.
If Tony Benn was alive he'd be demanding a paternity test.
Future leader, perhaps...?
Corbyn's face during Benn's speech (at least the bit he had the courtesy to be present for) was a picture, and his reluctance to 'budge up' and let Benn sit down was quite something!Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.0 -
That was a pretty conclusive majority with a good degree of cross party support for the motion. Although insignificant in terms of numbers, I note that 75% of Lib Dem MPs voted for the motion, including the party leader.
They did. Was part of the deal they struck: if Cameron includes Faron's 5 changes, he gets their vote.
Faron got 'em. Fair's fair.
Not bad for 6 votes Tories didn't need.0 -
Should you not be worried that they sold out for a few conditions? I'm sure that your party are not naturally 75% 'warmongerers' as you put it recently.That was a pretty conclusive majority with a good degree of cross party support for the motion. Although insignificant in terms of numbers, I note that 75% of Lib Dem MPs voted for the motion, including the party leader.
They did. Was part of the deal they struck: if Cameron includes Faron's 5 changes, he gets their vote.
Faron got 'em. Fair's fair.
Not bad for 6 votes Tories didn't need."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.0 -
Either way it wasnt going to be great for you - if it wasnt a sell out that would have meant they fundamentaly disagree with your pacifist stance.No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.
Got a link to what was agreed? I want to see what is in the extremist funding point - one part of my day job is running a corporate treasury department so the banking aspects could be interesting."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.
Tim Farron makes no such claims on the libdem voice and in the email he sent to members, just that he set 5 tests and following meetings with various committees, he came to his view, no deal struck, just verbal assurances, worth nothing.
the funding of IS and others is global and nothing the Gov could solely act on.0 -
1. Cut off the money supply. Doesn't matter who, or how. Bombing the oil fields and refineries is the only case for bombs. But they don't want to do that. Too many vested interests in future oil.
Keeping the oil appears more important than getting the terrorists.
2. Target the men, not the land. Worldwide.
PS:- Any completion is going to take years and probably decades at a minimum. We are in this for the long haul.
1. Didn't they just bomb, as their first target, an oil field?
Syria is not a big player in oil. It's reserves are small and their refining capacity limited. A minnow compared to the big boys like Saudi and Iran.0 -
Nice to know that they were paying attention.1. Cut off the money supply. Doesn't matter who, or how. Bombing the oil fields and refineries is the only case for bombs. But they don't want to do that. Too many vested interests in future oil.
Keeping the oil appears more important than getting the terrorists.
2. Target the men, not the land. Worldwide.
PS:- Any completion is going to take years and probably decades at a minimum. We are in this for the long haul.
1. Didn't they just bomb, as their first target, an oil field?
Syria is not a big player in oil. It's reserves are small and their refining capacity limited. A minnow compared to the big boys like Saudi and Iran.
The death cult oil is the target to cut the money supply, not oil itself.
We can go after Saudi and Iran when proved that they are in the death cult.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I listened to bits of the Syrian debate in the Commons during Weds afternoon. And what strikes me is that CaMoron was talking about an ultimate objective of eliminating IS & installing a democratically elected government in Syria. Well that's gonna work ain't it?
Look what happened when the last two secular dictators were removed from power with the help of the meddling West. Love him or loathe him Putin has it right. The country needs Assad. Just like Libya needed Gaddafi and Iraq needed Saddam. Uncomfortable as it may seem, they kept their countries very stable and delivered good infrastructure to the people. Now Libya and Iraq are basket cases and Syria is all but rubble. And all in the name of promoting democracy. Can't the Western powers get it into their thick skulls that democracy is not suitable for all regions of the world, especially the Middle East.
Footnote:
If the West really want to cut the head off the beast that is IS then perhaps they should be bombing Saudi Arabia. Historically that's where they spawned from and that's where they continue to be funded and supported from.
Rant ends.Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.0 -
Mathew Parris hit the nail on the head, when he said that Cameron has seen a party going on and wants to join in.
bout right really and seems that Benn has been dazzled by power, fame and fortune too.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/12/02/john-mccain-britain-bombing-syria_n_8699016.html0 -
Seems like H Benn is a bit of a chip off the old block in that he is happy to be in the inner circle but can't resist being a t***. It's all very well having someone in your tent phishing out, rather that the reverse, but WTF.
Time for Jezza to get nasty, maybe :twisted:Ecrasez l’infame0 -
Thank you mamba, very useful post.No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.
Tim Farron makes no such claims on the libdem voice and in the email he sent to members, just that he set 5 tests and following meetings with various committees, he came to his view, no deal struck, just verbal assurances, worth nothing.
the funding of IS and others is global and nothing the Gov could solely act on.
I think you were overclaiming on behalf of the 'magnificent 8' there Rick "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
His policies already are[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19754610#p19754610]BelgianBeerGeek[/url] wrote:Seems like H Benn is a bit of a chip off the old block in that he is happy to be in the inner circle but can't resist being a t***. It's all very well having someone in your tent phishing out, rather that the reverse, but WTF.
Time for Jezza to get nasty, maybe :twisted:
Unfortunately for JC there aren't enough Trots in parliament for him to fill all of his shadow ministerial positions so he has had to dish out some of the jobs to less hard left Labour MPs."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.
Tim Farron makes no such claims on the libdem voice and in the email he sent to members, just that he set 5 tests and following meetings with various committees, he came to his view, no deal struck, just verbal assurances, worth nothing.
the funding of IS and others is global and nothing the Gov could solely act on.
Those 5 features were not met after the first proposal (a week or so ago).
Since then the Tories have amended the amendment slightly in order to accommodate.0 -
So, we all feeling safer now then? Now that we have a token set of Tornados dropping big fireworks?
Then the drumbeats carry on. I heard General the Lord Dannatt (I have this unfortunate mental image of the Stephen Fry character from Blackadder General Melchett, bah) no less advocating physical 'boots on the ground'.
This is the same chap that believes his God saved him 4 times... Oh dear...
http://www.christianstogether.net/Articles/136794/Christians_Together_in/Christian_Life/Reaching_Out/Army_chief_says.aspx
Bombs eh? Can't get enough of them.
Why not get our forensic accountants' boots on the desk to work on the funding, the oil trading, the Saudi Wahhabi connections...? Surely now the US are hardballing the oil price with their internal shale production, the historic genuflection to those Saudi cxxxsxxxers ain't necessary?0 -
How odd, a general advocating use of the army. Just like the RAF Sir Whatever on the radio the other day saying that these days bombing is accurate enough not to worry about civilian casualties. I'm sure the navy would advocate submarine warfare against IS (just like Libya).
I do wish these rent a quote generals and the like would just feck off and look after their gardens and stop getting all priapic about killing people.
And I'm already sick of Shiney-face Dave's "serious" face. Yeah, we get the idea, Dave, you got your fight. Now you can look Hollande in the eye. Tosser.
Oh well, off to knit some socks and scarves for the troops (Cyprus can get nippy in the winter). What a flipping mess.Ecrasez l’infame0 -
Thank you mamba, very useful post.No but they are politicians.
Gotta get grubby to get stuff done.
Better have some impact than none. You take each instance in their own context. In this one, they got something for very little. The alternative would be ineffectual posturing (since they have so few seats).
I'm pleased Faron's extremist funding review was included. I think that adds a lot of value.
Tim Farron makes no such claims on the libdem voice and in the email he sent to members, just that he set 5 tests and following meetings with various committees, he came to his view, no deal struck, just verbal assurances, worth nothing.
the funding of IS and others is global and nothing the Gov could solely act on.
I think you were overclaiming on behalf of the 'magnificent 8' there Rick
mmmm i dint do it to be helpful but to highlight how far so called left of centre politicians and parties have fallen and that includes comrade Corbyn too!
i am no pacifist or terrorist sympathiser, as anyone who knows my former life would know but i m not for destroying the infratructure of a country, destroy the populice, just because "something needs to be done"
There is plenty that could be done before bombing the place, starting with rebuilding our pathetically under equipped armed forces, real pressure on Saudi and Turkey, working with russia and Assad, instead of against them, so, inviting Montenegro into NATO ??? of all times , now! wtf do these wan$ers want? a 3rd world war?0 -
Classy...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344070/Labour-s-traitor-list-Corbyn-tries-call-bullies-anti-war-supporters-plotting-kick-66-MPs-backed-bombing-ISIS-Syria.html
Anyone else see the irony in anti-war protesters threatening MPs with violence and even death?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Classy...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344070/Labour-s-traitor-list-Corbyn-tries-call-bullies-anti-war-supporters-plotting-kick-66-MPs-backed-bombing-ISIS-Syria.html
Anyone else see the irony in anti-war protesters threatening MPs with violence and even death?
yes i do, i guess if you advocate bombing, then why stop there? (just for some balance)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3337092/Party-leaders-DID-know-Tatler-Tory-bully-claims-Bombshell-letter-reveals-former-chairman-complained-Mark-Clarke-Grant-Shapps-January.html
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/27/elliott-johnson-young-tory-destroyed-by-party-he-loved-mark-clarke0 -
Devil's advocate.Classy...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3344070/Labour-s-traitor-list-Corbyn-tries-call-bullies-anti-war-supporters-plotting-kick-66-MPs-backed-bombing-ISIS-Syria.vv.html
Anyone else see the irony in anti-war protesters threatening MPs with violence and even death?
Live by the sword, die by the sword.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
At least 2 who dont see the irony then.
So you reckon they deserve it?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I see that you read my second sentence.At least 2 who dont see the irony then.
So you reckon they deserve it?
But not the first.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
No, I read and thought it was your get out clause if challenged.
I see that you read my second sentence.At least 2 who dont see the irony then.
So you reckon they deserve it?
But not the first.
Although mamba seems to have completely missed the point that I am not having a go at Labour. These are Labour MPs getting the threats from 'peace activists' :roll:"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
At least 2 who dont see the irony then.
So you reckon they deserve it?
I can see the point and irony you are suggesting but you are really bring this up to further rubbish the labour party, rather than concern for the MPs or condemnation of the tweeters, true or false? :shock:
Who? the boy and his parents or the MP's voting for air strikes? of course both situations and actions are totally unacceptable and Corbyn has said so, (livingstone is a prize prat however) but what has Cameron had to say about Grant Shappes etc etc? nothing much as far as i can see.
you cant bring up the Labour stuff, whilst ignoring the situation in the Tory party, which to me is worse, if thats the right word?
Someone really did die, a family in grief and all this within the confines of the tory party, i wonder what the parents would do to have their son back in exchange for some threatening tweets?0 -
:roll: Read my post above - I've already said this is not a dig at Labour. They are supposedly 'peace activists' - although tbh that is a very charitable description of people who are intimidating and threatening Labour MPs....these are the apologist fury chimps who I referred to not too long ago. The hard left grass roots in all its glory.At least 2 who dont see the irony then.
So you reckon they deserve it?
I can see the point and irony you are suggesting but you are really bring this up to further rubbish the labour party, rather than concern for the MPs or condemnation of the tweeters, true or false? :shock:
Who? the boy and his parents or the MP's voting for air strikes? of course both situations and actions are totally unacceptable and Corbyn has said so, (livingstone is a prize prat however) but what has Cameron had to say about Grant Shappes etc etc? nothing much as far as i can see.
you cant bring up the Labour stuff, whilst ignoring the situation in the Tory party, which to me is worse, if thats the right word?
Someone really did die, a family in grief and all this within the confines of the tory party, i wonder what the parents would do to have their son back in exchange for some threatening tweets?
Get off your high horse and RTFP "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
:roll: Read my post above - I've already said this is not a dig at Labour. They are supposedly 'peace activists' - although tbh that is a very charitable description of people who are intimidating and threatening Labour MPs....these are the apologist fury chimps who I referred to not too long ago. The hard left grass roots in all its glory.
Get off your high horse and RTFP
your not one of these Peace Activists are???? you have zero idea if these people are genuine labour members or people like you who joined labour just to stir up trouble? or just trolls?
You d not have bought it up if it wasnt a dig at labour, something you do at every conceivable opportunity
the irony is that it the Tories who have run a bully campaign against young people, something you ve glossed over :shock: 0
