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paris

sungodsungod Posts: 13,208
edited March 2016 in The cake stop


best wishes to the people who were caught up in the terrible attacks, and their families
my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
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Posts

  • oxomanoxoman Posts: 8,844
    Sad times in Paris. Evil will never win, good will overcome.
    Too many bikes according to Mrs O.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,173
    Whilst I will accept Western interference in the middle east has been a factor of the unrest for a long time, the actions of ISIS are beyond comprehension and I do not accept that their actions are in the slightest bit justified. Protest yes, strikes yes, international political pressure yes but not the carnage wreaked by a bunch of medieval scum who have no right to breathe oxygen. Therefore, the best we could do is to unilaterally annihilate them.

    The news from Paris just gets worse and worse. So sad, so senseless
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    My heart goes out to those who have lost loved ones. Je suis Paris.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • city_boycity_boy Posts: 1,616
    Whilst I will accept Western interference in the middle east has been a factor of the unrest for a long time, the actions of ISIS are beyond comprehension and I do not accept that their actions are in the slightest bit justified. Protest yes, strikes yes, international political pressure yes but not the carnage wreaked by a bunch of medieval scum who have no right to breathe oxygen. Therefore, the best we could do is to unilaterally annihilate them.

    The news from Paris just gets worse and worse. So sad, so senseless

    Yep. That just about sums it up.
    Statistically, 6 out of 7 dwarves are not happy.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Whilst I will accept Western interference in the middle east has been a factor of the unrest for a long time, the actions of ISIS are beyond comprehension and I do not accept that their actions are in the slightest bit justified. Protest yes, strikes yes, international political pressure yes but not the carnage wreaked by a bunch of medieval scum who have no right to breathe oxygen. Therefore, the best we could do is to unilaterally annihilate them.

    The news from Paris just gets worse and worse. So sad, so senseless

    Yep. That just about sums it up.

    Unfortunately this is a no-win situation. If the hard-core fundamentalists of the US bomb the hardcare fundamentalists of ISIS then more people will sign up for the latter.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,159
    Whilst I will accept Western interference in the middle east has been a factor of the unrest for a long time, the actions of ISIS are beyond comprehension and I do not accept that their actions are in the slightest bit justified. Protest yes, strikes yes, international political pressure yes but not the carnage wreaked by a bunch of medieval scum who have no right to breathe oxygen. Therefore, the best we could do is to unilaterally annihilate them.

    The news from Paris just gets worse and worse. So sad, so senseless

    Yep. That just about sums it up.

    Unfortunately this is a no-win situation. If the hard-core fundamentalists of the US bomb the hardcare fundamentalists of ISIS then more people will sign up for the latter.
    Darwinism?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    Whilst I will accept Western interference in the middle east has been a factor of the unrest for a long time, the actions of ISIS are beyond comprehension and I do not accept that their actions are in the slightest bit justified. Protest yes, strikes yes, international political pressure yes but not the carnage wreaked by a bunch of medieval scum who have no right to breathe oxygen. Therefore, the best we could do is to unilaterally annihilate them.

    The news from Paris just gets worse and worse. So sad, so senseless

    Yep. That just about sums it up.

    Unfortunately this is a no-win situation. If the hard-core fundamentalists of the US bomb the hardcare fundamentalists of ISIS then more people will sign up for the latter.
    Darwinism?

    Common sense I think. Let's not forget why ISIS was formed, The West's (in particular the US's) dreadful hoiler than thou attitude to anything foreign to their culture. I despair at both sides.
  • Ultimately these awful people will have to be spoken to, assuming they would come to a negotiating table.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,173
    Ultimately these awful people will have to be spoken to, assuming they would come to a negotiating table.

    ...and in so doing, their actions become justified/legitimised to them?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • sungodsungod Posts: 13,208
    Common sense I think. Let's not forget why ISIS was formed, The West's (in particular the US's) dreadful hoiler than thou attitude to anything foreign to their culture. I despair at both sides.

    i don't agree, nor with negotiation

    whilst western idiocy (though others have played a part too), most recently of bush/blair, has certainly driven recruitment, the roots of this go far back, at least to the wahhabis, maybe all the way to when sunni/shia split

    their core belief is that only they are right, everyone else is, at best, to be tolerated as long as they toe the line, but more typically to be enslaved or killed: a christian may be allowed to live if they pay 'taxes' and behave; people of some other sects are not so fortunate, they are not recognised as human, men are slaughtered, women and young girls raped

    various regional rulers should've been exterminating these lunatics as vermin, some did, but others resorted to appeasement, allowed them to set up 'schools' to twist the minds of children, even gave them power within the state

    you do not do that with scum who value nothing on earth and believe that dying in the process of killing others to advance their loathsome ideals will guarantee them paradise

    they will never negotiate, barring capture and re-education or permanent imprisonment, you can only exterminate them

    unfortunately it's now been left so long that many others will suffer and die in the process
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • I believe the only way forward is to negotiate. However if they don't come to the table "Sungod" is right.
    I quote: they will never negotiate, barring capture and re-education or permanent imprisonment, you can only exterminate them
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • DeVlaeminckDeVlaeminck Posts: 6,328
    Thing is how can you negotiate with people who think it is OK to kill or rape anyone that doesn't follow their particular brand of Islam and whose whole raison d'etre is to destroy our society and the values that we have fought for over centuries. What do we negotiate over - do we give them territory - do we recognise their right to set up a caliphate with access to oil and consequently vast wealth to further their ambitions?

    It isn't like dealing with say the IRA or some other terrorist groups, we might have thought they were committing abhorrent acts that were totally unjustified but ultimately their world view wasn't that different to ours there was always room to find a compromise however unlikely that looked. How do we compromise with ISIS or similar groups - what would that even look like ?

    Seems to me that we either try and destroy them through direct force and accept they will respond with attacks like those in Paris in an attempt to make our actions unpopular at home or we play a more subtle game to get rid of them - maybe boosting their regional opponents - maybe accepting that we back some unpleasant people to prevent these more unpleasant people furthering their reach.
    AFC Mercia women - sign for us
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,173
    If they do not recognise any form of social structure except their own, negotiation is pointless. Conceding some territory is only going to give them a base from which they can recruit and further their cause. However, cornering them in that enclave would allow us to obliterate them. Free bus pass to ISIS central sir? No, problem.

    Unfortunately, that's rather simplistic.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • If the offer to talk was there and they refuse to talk, does that not leave the door open to the last resort with a certain amount of legitimacy?
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    If the offer to talk was there and they refuse to talk, does that not leave the door open to the last resort with a certain amount of legitimacy?

    And just what is the 'Last Resort'? Would it include dealing with the cradle of wahhabism, Saudi Arabia, in the same manner as its offspring? Which is essentially where Al-Qaeda/Taliban/ISIS all spawned from and continues to be funded,encouraged and supported from. Perhaps cutting the head off the snake is the first best option. Then go after the middle and the tail.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • If the offer to talk was there and they refuse to talk, does that not leave the door open to the last resort with a certain amount of legitimacy?

    And just what is the 'Last Resort'? Would it include dealing with the cradle of wahhabism, Saudi Arabia, in the same manner as its offspring? Which is essentially where Al-Qaeda/Taliban/ISIS all spawned from and continues to be funded,encouraged and supported from. Perhaps cutting the head off the snake is the first best option. Then go after the middle and the tail.
    The last resort................................................all out warfare, rather than air strikes.

    It will not solve anything though. Without giving ISIS any more gravitas the world is potentially on a very slippy slope.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    You can't put an ideology against the wall and shoot it dead.


    It's a multi faceted approach which should be aimed at addressing some of the drivers for recruitment and radicalisation as well as militarially.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,772
    You can't put an ideology against the wall and shoot it dead.


    It's a multi faceted approach which should be aimed at addressing some of the drivers for recruitment and radicalisation as well as militarially.


    True. But decent moderate Muslim preachers could do more to combat it.
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    You can't put an ideology against the wall and shoot it dead.


    It's a multi faceted approach which should be aimed at addressing some of the drivers for recruitment and radicalisation as well as militarially.


    True. But decent moderate Muslim preachers could do more to combat it.

    I think the UK has a more vocal moderate Muslim demographic while France seems to have a more disconnected Muslim population making up a disproportionate amount of French prisons which could be an indicator of larger social issues? Not one sole answer here, just multiple drivers and layers of complexity and conflicting interests.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
  • mr_goomr_goo Posts: 3,755
    You can't put an ideology against the wall and shoot it dead.


    It's a multi faceted approach which should be aimed at addressing some of the drivers for recruitment and radicalisation as well as militarially.


    True. But decent moderate Muslim preachers could do more to combat it.

    I agree with the idea. However I understand that many of the mosques in the UK and Europe are funded from Saudi Arabia which is the home of Wahhabism. Which in turn is the ideological foundation of all the intolerant versions of Islam. The Saudis wouldn't put moderate respectable preachers into their own establishments, they want to spread Wahhabism throughout the world.
    Always be yourself, unless you can be Aaron Rodgers....Then always be Aaron Rodgers.
  • ballysmateballysmate Posts: 14,772
    Here is a quote from Charlie Hebdo
    Friends from the whole world, thank you for #prayforParis, but we don't need more religion! Our faith goes to music! Kissing! Life! Champagne and joy! #Parisisaboutlife
  • bianchimoonbianchimoon Posts: 3,942
    Here is a quote from Charlie Hebdo
    Friends from the whole world, thank you for #prayforParis, but we don't need more religion! Our faith goes to music! Kissing! Life! Champagne and joy! #Parisisaboutlife

    ahh so beautifully put
    All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032

    I would support this, and propose the state be set up on Staats Island in the Falklands, it would be a one way ticket and no boats or any comms equipment would be allowed.
    All welcome.
  • pblakeneypblakeney Posts: 14,159

    I would support this, and propose the state be set up on Staats Island in the Falklands, it would be a one way ticket and no boats or any comms equipment would be allowed.
    All welcome.
    Especially Argentinians?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • MatthewfalleMatthewfalle Posts: 17,380
    I've been to too many memorial services/2 minute silences recently.

    Why can't people just be nice to each other?
    Postby team47b » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:53 am

    De Sisti wrote:
    This is one of the silliest threads I've come across. :lol:

    Recognition at last Matthew, well done!, a justified honour :D
    smithy21 wrote:

    He's right you know.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,173
    I've been to too many memorial services/2 minute silences recently.

    Why can't people just be nice to each other?

    BR's very own mercenary steps in and blows the whistle for full time. :D
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • johnny25johnny25 Posts: 344
    I've been to too many memorial services/2 minute silences recently.

    Why can't people just be nice to each other?

    Because killing and destroying people and things is hard wired into our DNA.
  • pinnopinno Posts: 40,173
    I've been to too many memorial services/2 minute silences recently.

    Why can't people just be nice to each other?

    Because killing and destroying people and things is hard wired into our DNA.

    Err... on a forum?
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • slowmartslowmart Posts: 4,039
    I've been to too many memorial services/2 minute silences recently.

    Why can't people just be nice to each other?

    Because killing and destroying people and things is hard wired into our DNA.

    Unless you're the leader of the Opposition

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/nov/16/corbyn-against-shoot-to-kill-uk-paris-attacks-labour

    It's more concerning Corbyns total lack of comprehension of the mindset of the extremist in question. It's not to negotiate but simply kill as many civilians as possible.

    No wonder Cameron has gone even more comatose as a Prime Minister with Corbyn "leading" the opposition.

    Corbyns position and mind set is more concerning than the thoughts of similar attacks in the UK.
    “Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”

    Desmond Tutu
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