Rugby World Cup 2015
Comments
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The simplest truth in this whole affair is that if Scotland had caught their line out then we wouldn't be having any sort of discussion!!
Aye, ifs, buts, maybes and if onlys.
Maitland yellow card still rankles, 7 points shipped during that; Hogg being wiped out after he cleared the ball just before the infamous Aus penalty, no TMO, no yellow, no Scottish penalty; then a reverse of the England v Wales folly on the lineout throw.
Think Joubert will get the final now then?
Nah!!
As only southern hemisphere teams are left in the competition, then it's an odds on certainty that a northern hemisphere referee will take charge of the final (and semi finals too!) Either Nigel Owens or Wayne Barnes who despite his detractors has had an excellent tournament. But it'll probably be Owens!!0 -
Up on the BBC ticker that World Rugby has said that Craig Joubert was wrong to award the last minute penalty against Scotland.............. That'll help!!
yep! What a load of sh1t! Decision made, penalty given. Very cruel on Scotland but that's the way it is. For world rugby to say this is ridiculous.
There's a massive poo storm. They have to say something. Anyone with the video who has watched it eight times in super slow mo can see that the decision was wrong. They are backing him saying he called it, mistakes happen, couldn't use the TMO. That last bit is the crucial bit. I disagree with them. I think there's scope.
FTFY (sorry!)Wilier Izoard XP0 -
True enough, however the trouble with Craig flipping Joubert (as my old man calls him...sort of) is that he seems to constantly get these game changing, important decisions wrong in important matches. I grudgingly accepted that he'd become the second best Ref over the past three years since the farce of the 2011 Final, but yet again he's got a crucial decision wrong
He's the Chris Robshaw of Referees....We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The general British refrain after most international tournaments, 'We wuz robbed!!'
As has been pointed out, Scotland had only to take their own lineout ball to see the game out but didn't. Robshaw could have gone for the 3 points, tied the game and would have been plaing the Saffers in the QF but didn't. If my aunt had been born with a dick she would have been my uncle..
Lets get over it and move on.
Lancaster had 4 years to prepare and didn't come up with an effective strategy, swapping and changing at the last minute.
Gatland had even longer. No doubt Wales will point to 2011 and say, 'If only..' Fact is in 2011 Wales played 7 lost 3. Something had to improve to make the next step but didn't. They carried on with their failing gameplan.
In contrast Argentina have taken their game to a new level. Australia have had 1 year under their new coach and the difference in them is remarkable. They can now scrummage for starters.
We just never seem to learn or develop quickly enough. Bish bash bosh is our game and it isn't good enough any more.
The Lions go to NZ in 2 years. I fear for them. It may just kill the concept if they are no longer competitive.0 -
Completetly agree with this we are always finding excuses why we lost if it was the other way round do you think the aussies will be looking for excuses or looking at themselves why they lost i.e. prop giving away intercept pass for last try no defence around ruck for first try missing 3 out of 5 kicks etc.The general British refrain after most international tournaments, 'We wuz robbed!!'
As has been pointed out, Scotland had only to take their own lineout ball to see the game out but didn't. Robshaw could have gone for the 3 points, tied the game and would have been plaing the Saffers in the QF but didn't. If my aunt had been born with a dick she would have been my uncle..
Lets get over it and move on.
Lancaster had 4 years to prepare and didn't come up with an effective strategy, swapping and changing at the last minute.
Gatland had even longer. No doubt Wales will point to 2011 and say, 'If only..' Fact is in 2011 Wales played 7 lost 3. Something had to improve to make the next step but didn't. They carried on with their failing gameplan.
In contrast Argentina have taken their game to a new level. Australia have had 1 year under their new coach and the difference in them is remarkable. They can now scrummage for starters.
We just never seem to learn or develop quickly enough. Bish bash bosh is our game and it isn't good enough any more.
The Lions go to NZ in 2 years. I fear for them. It may just kill the concept if they are no longer competitive.
i think they will be looking at themselves same as all southern hemisphere countries and that currently is one of the reasons they are so much better0 -
Are you serious? Have you ever heard the Aussies when they lose?if it was the other way round do you think the aussies will be looking for excuses or looking at themselves0 -
Ok Maybe the Aussies are a bad example lol possibly New Zealand then0
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From the BBC website:
"World Rugby was "unfair" to referee Craig Joubert by saying he was wrong to award Australia a late, match-winning penalty against Scotland, according to Wallabies coach Michael Cheika"
Hmm. Do you think he might have had a different opinion somehow of the dodgy decision had it gone against Australia?0 -
I'm not sure the moderate media are "getting it" with regard to outing Joubert.
They had two choices. Confirm that the decision was, in fact, wrong but that he could not use the TMO or stay silent (though they could confirm he could not use the TMO).
There is such a massive storm that they have to say something. As a matter of fact it was the wrong decision. But that happens. That wrong decision means that his decision not to use the TMO was correct.
Have WR thrown him under a bus? I have no idea. But I simply read the review, using all camera angles, as something which confirms that refs get it wrong. They get it wrong a lot but this one had to be put to bed given the time when it occurred. Had it been at 40,60,70 minutes no-one would have cared.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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I'm not sure the moderate media are "getting it" with regard to outing Joubert.
They had two choices. Confirm that the decision was, in fact, wrong but that he could not use the TMO or stay silent (though they could confirm he could not use the TMO).
There is such a massive storm that they have to say something. As a matter of fact it was the wrong decision. But that happens. That wrong decision means that his decision not to use the TMO was correct.
Have WR thrown him under a bus? I have no idea. But I simply read the review, using all camera angles, as something which confirms that refs get it wrong. They get it wrong a lot but this one had to be put to bed given the time when it occurred. Had it been at 40,60,70 minutes no-one would have cared.
Bang on.
FWIW, I think scrapping promotion and relegation is a terrible idea. Yes, I'm a Bristol fan and current thinking is that if the PL is ring fenced (Bristol would be selected to join a 14 team league (based I think on ground size). However, the quality of the rugby being played in the Championship is getting better and better (Exeter, anyone?) and teams work hard to build squads and get promoted. Yes, London Welsh got it terribly wrong.
Yes, we should allow players to play in the French leagues to follow the money but we should be selecting them in the national side if they are good enough which in the case of Armitage, they clearly are.
We should perhaps look more closely at the saturation of the English leagues with overseas players. Saracens are an excellent team playing exiting rugby in s 'southern hemisphere' style of play but with a lot of overseas players. There's a certain irony that their start winger is Chris Ashton who I will personally make an effort to stop taking to the field in an England shirt if ever selected again.
A fairly dis-jointed post from me, but I think you get the gist of it.Cube - Peloton
Cannondale - CAAD100 -
They get it wrong a lot but this one had to be put to bed given the time when it occurred.
That's the crux though isn't it? He knew the call would swing the result from Scotland to Australia. Given the clock time, essentially it was the last scoring opportunity of the match. Foley was back in the groove with his kicking.
So was it arrogance? Over-confidence? One would have thought that the sensible man would go for confirmation from his on field officials and the TMO in spite of what the 'rules' might say is allowed.
As it turned out, Joubert will now carry the stigma of the wrong call and the gifting of the win to Australia for the rest of his career.0 -
They get it wrong a lot but this one had to be put to bed given the time when it occurred.
That's the crux though isn't it? He knew the call would swing the result from Scotland to Australia. Given the clock time, essentially it was the last scoring opportunity of the match. Foley was back in the groove with his kicking.
So was it arrogance? Over-confidence? One would have thought that the sensible man would go for confirmation from his on field officials and the TMO in spite of what the 'rules' might say is allowed.
As it turned out, Joubert will now carry the stigma of the wrong call and the gifting of the win to Australia for the rest of his career.
And I think he could have. He could have asked his AR's. That's one option. Please confirm who touched the ball last. He could have, IMO, asked the TMO. But that would have required the phrase "can you confirm whether that was a deliberate knock on and whether you saw any foul play." That's an interpretation within the rules. He could have just asked the TMO, that would have broken the rules. He'd be remembered as the ref who broke them but provided a just and fair result. I guess, really, he couldn't win this one.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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I think the problem is that he so clearly was unsure of the decision as he gave it. It was not a confident penalty call, it was an "Ive got to give something here and I ve no idea what it should be"
I think blowing the whistle then watching the big screen (which is going to the TMO but also not) might have been his best course of action but he didnt. It was a hell of a difficult call, even with a replay!
With regard to the bus, I don't think World Rugby have helped anyone with their statement. I think that criticism is necessary or else referees (Steve Walsh and young Joubert) being good examples can think that because they are not criticised they are not doing anything wrong, but it should stop the day after. All WR did was prolong the agony...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
I think blowing the whistle then watching the big screen (which is going to the TMO but also not) might have been his best course of action but he didnt. It was a hell of a difficult call, even with a replay!
Whilst that would have resulted in a correct decision, it sets a dangerous precedent. We'll have referees blowing whistles every 5 minutes to look at the big screen.
How about allowing onfield captains a limited number of referrals (like in cricket)? The purpose there is to eliminate howlers, but by limiting the number of challenges, prevents a challenge at every breakdown.Cube - Peloton
Cannondale - CAAD100 -
I think blowing the whistle then watching the big screen (which is going to the TMO but also not) might have been his best course of action but he didnt. It was a hell of a difficult call, even with a replay!
Whilst that would have resulted in a correct decision, it sets a dangerous precedent. We'll have referees blowing whistles every 5 minutes to look at the big screen.
How about allowing onfield captains a limited number of referrals (like in cricket)? The purpose there is to eliminate howlers, but by limiting the number of challenges, prevents a challenge at every breakdown.
Fair point and good idea
It's partly because that was obviously what he was doing anyway, It was the sort of thing where breaking the protocol may have been best for Craig...WR could still have said it was not in the rules to prevent it happening all the time but It would have hard to criticise the right decision...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The decision may have been the wrong one and Joubert is not a great ref but world rugby have really hung him out to dry on this one whatever happened to the referees decision is final and backing him? also I think that all TMO decisions should be made in real time only as the referee sees it no slow motions as in my opinion that's what causes most of the controversy. Or go back to how all amateurs play and just have the referee and Touch Judges making the calls0
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The decision may have been the wrong one and Joubert is not a great ref but world rugby have really hung him out to dry on this one whatever happened to the referees decision is final and backing him? also I think that all TMO decisions should be made in real time only as the referee sees it no slow motions as in my opinion that's what causes most of the controversy. Or go back to how all amateurs play and just have the referee and Touch Judges making the calls
Why does everyone feel it isn't backing him? The statement confirms that WR could only see that it was wrong after watching multiple camera angles and that, given the decision he made, he could not go to the TMO. Mistakes happen.
Given that this occurred at 78.30 what on earth could they have said instead?My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Meanwhile, it's nice to see that the Aussie coach, at least, is doing the decent thing and standing up for the guy who won it for them...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/rugby-world-cup/11943585/Rugby-World-Cup-2015-Craig-Joubert-defended-by-Australias-Michael-Cheika-after-Scotland-penalty-blunder.html0 -
In my opinion I don't think they should openly say that the referee got it wrong. they should turn round and say he was right not to use TMO as could not and we will be reviewing our procedures and that the referee's decision is final. By openly stating he got it wrong it puts all the blame on him rather than on the inept contradictory laws relating to TMO usage. As stated previously I think TMO should only be able to judge on real time as the referee sees and use the different angles to aid not slowed down as that makes everything look a lot worse.The decision may have been the wrong one and Joubert is not a great ref but world rugby have really hung him out to dry on this one whatever happened to the referees decision is final and backing him? also I think that all TMO decisions should be made in real time only as the referee sees it no slow motions as in my opinion that's what causes most of the controversy. Or go back to how all amateurs play and just have the referee and Touch Judges making the calls
Why does everyone feel it isn't backing him? The statement confirms that WR could only see that it was wrong after watching multiple camera angles and that, given the decision he made, he could not go to the TMO. Mistakes happen.
Given that this occurred at 78.30 what on earth could they have said instead?0 -
In my opinion I don't think they should openly say that the referee got it wrong. they should turn round and say he was right not to use TMO as could not and we will be reviewing our procedures and that the referee's decision is final. By openly stating he got it wrong it puts all the blame on him rather than on the inept contradictory laws relating to TMO usage. As stated previously I think TMO should only be able to judge on real time as the referee sees and use the different angles to aid not slowed down as that makes everything look a lot worse.The decision may have been the wrong one and Joubert is not a great ref but world rugby have really hung him out to dry on this one whatever happened to the referees decision is final and backing him? also I think that all TMO decisions should be made in real time only as the referee sees it no slow motions as in my opinion that's what causes most of the controversy. Or go back to how all amateurs play and just have the referee and Touch Judges making the calls
Why does everyone feel it isn't backing him? The statement confirms that WR could only see that it was wrong after watching multiple camera angles and that, given the decision he made, he could not go to the TMO. Mistakes happen.
Given that this occurred at 78.30 what on earth could they have said instead?
But they can't say he can't use the TMO without rehearsing why he gave the penalty. That penalty was playing the ball from a knock on. Not foul play. Anyone with youtube can see that he got it wrong. Saying he got it wrong is simply stating a fact.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Wasn't the penalty for playing the ball from an offside position? The fact that the Aussie player was trying to gather the ball and knocking on himself, mean that the Scot player was onside, so a scrum should have been awarded for the original knock on?
I've thought about this so much the past few days I may well have confused myself!Cube - Peloton
Cannondale - CAAD100 -
Fair enough point taken makes sense
In my opinion I don't think they should openly say that the referee got it wrong. they should turn round and say he was right not to use TMO as could not and we will be reviewing our procedures and that the referee's decision is final. By openly stating he got it wrong it puts all the blame on him rather than on the inept contradictory laws relating to TMO usage. As stated previously I think TMO should only be able to judge on real time as the referee sees and use the different angles to aid not slowed down as that makes everything look a lot worse.The decision may have been the wrong one and Joubert is not a great ref but world rugby have really hung him out to dry on this one whatever happened to the referees decision is final and backing him? also I think that all TMO decisions should be made in real time only as the referee sees it no slow motions as in my opinion that's what causes most of the controversy. Or go back to how all amateurs play and just have the referee and Touch Judges making the calls
Why does everyone feel it isn't backing him? The statement confirms that WR could only see that it was wrong after watching multiple camera angles and that, given the decision he made, he could not go to the TMO. Mistakes happen.
Given that this occurred at 78.30 what on earth could they have said instead?
But they can't say he can't use the TMO without rehearsing why he gave the penalty. That penalty was playing the ball from a knock on. Not foul play. Anyone with youtube can see that he got it wrong. Saying he got it wrong is simply stating a fact.0 -
When all is said and done, and irrespective of the refereeing decisions made at the time, Scotland put themselves under enormous - and unnecessary - pressure with a lineout throw to the tail. If Reid hadn't instinctively grabbed the ball from an offside position, with the last player touching the ball being Australian it would've resulted in an Australian scrum on our 5-metre line. Australia could still have scored from the set-piece so the final result would still have been far from certain.
There are two things about this that hack me off though (well, three if you count Joubert's blatant lack of manners in leaving the pitch at a canter);
1. After he blew for the penalty, Joubert watched the slow-mo replay on the big screen. Take a look at his face and you can't but help conclude he KNEW he'd made a mistake. At that point he could've consulted his AR's, admitted he got it wrong and changed the penalty to a scrum. No need to consult the TMO
2. During the replay on the big screen, the late hit on Hogg as he cleared to touch was also played in glorious technicolour. Joubert can't have failed to notice that, nor could the TMO who was perfectly at liberty to draw foul play to Joubert's attention. (He certainly wasn't shy earlier in the game when pointing out Maitland's "deliberate" knock on. On that occasion, Joubert reversed his decision for an Aussie scrum, and carded Maitland. That decision cost Scotland at least one try)
As a number commentators have observed, it's doubtful the SH superpowers would have been reffed that way. Can you imagine the furore if it had been the All Blacks on the receiving end of this? 'Nuff said
In the final analysis, Scotland couldn't close out the game, and paid the price. Hopefully they can carry the same levels of passion & skill into the 6N."Get a bicycle. You won't regret it if you live"
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Semi finals this weekend - can anyone see anything other than a NZ vs Aus final?Wilier Izoard XP0
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Can't really see past the AB's, but if they are going to choke, no place better than a World Cup QF!
My first born is currently 4 days late, so no doubt I won't be watching any of the rugby! Perhaps a World Cup try fest might nudge things along.Cube - Peloton
Cannondale - CAAD100 -
Semi finals this weekend - can anyone see anything other than a NZ vs Aus final?
Yes. Australia have been successively pummelled over many weeks and are very lucky to have survived. They'll be knackered. So I can see, and hope, to see Argentina turn them over.
NZ v Arg final for me. Well, something I'd like to see. No one will turn the AB's over. So I'd like to see Argentina make the final.My blog: http://www.roubaixcycling.cc (kit reviews and other musings)
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Semi finals this weekend - can anyone see anything other than a NZ vs Aus final?
Yes. Australia have been successively pummelled over many weeks and are very lucky to have survived. They'll be knackered. So I can see, and hope, to see Argentina turn them over.
NZ v Arg final for me. Well, something I'd like to see. No one will turn the AB's over. So I'd like to see Argentina make the final.
I'd love to see Argentina beat Australia . . . I'm going to the match. I think Argentina have brought a lot to the RWC over the years and deserve to do well.Wilier Izoard XP0 -
It would be great I agree, but I don't see it. They play each other in the Rugby Champs so Argentina won't be a "surprise" like they were for Ireland.
I'm hoping they re going to be 2 cracking games though!
Agree but I think Argentina will be looking closely at the Aus vs Scotland video and thinking that they're beatable. Argentina's first 20 minutes against Ireland was sublime stuff - love the way they play.Wilier Izoard XP0
