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How do I get faster ??

aw1808aw1808 Posts: 91
edited October 2015 in Training, fitness and health
I ride with a group of lads on a group ride and can hold 23 mph but that's my limit for the hour (hour long flat ride ) and I'm holding them back . They are good friends and if they drop me then slow up till I get back on and I'm full on balls out .

What's the best way for me to increase the speed training wise so I can hold on apart from going every week ?
I may be slow going up but i will pass you going down !
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  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    There is probably a lot more info needed, but the basics:
    - can you drop weight? any excess will hold you back
    - can you improve your riding to be more efficient/more aero?
    - can you up your CV output to give you more power?

    Have a read of:
    https://wattbike.com/uk/guide/training_plan/wattbike_10_mile_time_trial_training_plan_with_joanna_rowsell
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Are you just riding once a week ? Try getting another 3 or 4 sessions in in the week.

    23mph is a pretty fast and furious ride - is that all they do ? A weekly hours ride ?

    Convert them to a proper bike ride - lower speed, longer distance, cake stops !
  • Billy! I told you not to post about this on the internet, we really don't mind slowing up for you. Sure it's not great that you are out the back 10 minutes later ....but that's half the fun of our group ride!
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,016
    - can you drop weight? any excess will hold you back

    Not really. Weight isn't going to make much, if any, difference on a flat ride. The OP just needs more sustainable power than he has now.
  • homers_doublehomers_double Posts: 6,691
    Has this just turned from what should have been a lads chat in an internet issue?
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    - can you drop weight? any excess will hold you back

    Not really. Weight isn't going to make much, if any, difference on a flat ride. The OP just needs more sustainable power than he has now.

    It really does depend on how much is spare and at the moment we don't have much to go on. But while I agree it makes much more of a difference when climbing, you still have an easily fixed issue. Its not just about the physics of accelerating a heavier object, its also about the link to lower CV capacity. There is also the whole blood volume thing and rotating mass of the legs to consider.

    http://www.livestrong.com/article/356265-how-does-bmi-affect-vo2-max/
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/475642-how-much-does-body-weight-affect-your-cycling-speed/
  • I ride with a group of lads on a group ride and can hold 23 mph but that's my limit for the hour (hour long flat ride ) and I'm holding them back . They are good friends and if they drop me then slow up till I get back on and I'm full on balls out .

    What's the best way for me to increase the speed training wise so I can hold on apart from going every week ?

    Is that 23mph average for the full hour, or that you can get up to 23mph at some points? As obviously there is a world of difference between the two!

    How much training are you doing? As obviously just 1 hour a week isn't going to do much of anything.
  • KheSanhKheSanh Posts: 62
    You're asking the wrong folks, ask your mates who you ride with. :-)
  • aw1808aw1808 Posts: 91
    They all ride regularly and a few race cat 3 and CX . Everybody rides regularly and the weekend runs are normally a 50-60 miler with cake. !

    Yeah I am a bit bulky and could lose a few kg's which is what I'm working on , I commute daily but it's only 6 miles and at a push I can make it 15 .

    We tend to average around the 21 mark for the hour as there are a few turning etc but generally that flat open roads are around the 23/24mph mark . Last night it was up at 27/28 for long stretches and I couldn't hold on , they do wait for me at junctions though :-)

    Do I need to improve my sustainable power ? Aero is not an option as I'm not exactly slim but still riding on the drops .
    I may be slow going up but i will pass you going down !
  • KheSanhKheSanh Posts: 62
    What cadence do you spin when the pace goes up? Do you try and push a bigger gear or get the legs spinning faster? When the pace goes up try and get your cadence higher first and increase power/speed.
  • aw1808aw1808 Posts: 91
    I tend to go for cadence instead of mashing a gear and normally my average cadence is around the 90 mark .

    Is this just case of working my ftp and losing weight ?
    I may be slow going up but i will pass you going down !
  • s this just case of working my ftp and losing weight ?

    It's all about raising FTP and your body's ability to process lactic acid. Weight loss is secondary and will almost certainly happen quite naturally through training anyway.

    Good luck.
  • How long have you been cycling for? As they seem like a well trained fast bunch. So it's not surprising if you can't hold on.
  • aw1808aw1808 Posts: 91
    Been riding for 4 years now and always improving but getting to the point where just blasting myself isn't working .
    I may be slow going up but i will pass you going down !
  • pastryboypastryboy Posts: 1,385
    I found using rollers helpful for a lack of stamina. 60-90 minute session at 90+ rpm will get your body used to it keeping going and also keeping your pedalling strict and smooth. Not really something I'd do in the summer though.
  • KheSanhKheSanh Posts: 62
    I tend to go for cadence instead of mashing a gear and normally my average cadence is around the 90 mark .

    Is this just case of working my ftp and losing weight ?

    90 is a good cruising cadence but work on taking it to about 100 / 105 for faster pace sections.

    Also plenty of good interval training will be your friend. Under and overs; 1 min at about 10% over threshold and then 1min 10% under threshold. Start off with 5 sets of 5.
    Spin out and leg speed intervals and the good ole hill climbs; 5min hard effort with a 10s sprint at the end and 3 min recovery between efforts, start off with 6.

    Also make sure you have a recovery week every 4th week, it makes the world of difference to your training.
  • supermurph09supermurph09 Posts: 2,471
    Are you getting dropped because when you go on the front you go into the red? If so, don't go so hard when it's your turn.
  • homers_doublehomers_double Posts: 6,691
    An average ride pace of 23/24 mph is rediculous, I have guys on strava that ride a lot and they don't hit that level, 27/28 is just silly.

    It's either that or I'm just slow and censored .
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • An average ride pace of 23/24 mph is rediculous, I have guys on strava that ride a lot and they don't hit that level, 27/28 is just silly.

    It's either that or I'm just slow and shoot.

    Indeed, which what makes me think that perhaps the OP is looking at what speed he's topping out at on his speedo rather than the actual average speed as reported by the likes of Strava?

    14-15mph is my usual pace, I'd regard 18mph+ as a 'fast' group ride. 23-24mph as very fast. 27-28mph well that's the likes of pro racers and most of us won't ever get close to that.
  • homers_doublehomers_double Posts: 6,691
    Or it's in metric...

    My average pace around a 35km morning loop is 25km/h or 15.5mph and I'd class myself as heavy and not that good at climbing which is why I might be "slow and censored " and others are faster. But they're only a few mph faster, not 50% faster.

    Average place on longer rides probably drops to about 14mph which seems to be the norm for a ride out with some mates.
    Advocate of disc brakes.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,016
    People should read the first post again. This is an hour-long flat ride with trained, competitive amateurs. The pace could easily exceed 20mph, and 23-24 would not be suprising, especially if the ride was a chaingang or similar. We used to hit 22-23 avge on an hour's undulating chaingang.

    To get faster, just keep doing those rides.
  • iPeteiPete Posts: 6,076
    As soon as the OP mentioned speed this was going to digress wasn't it?.. he is merely saying that on some stretches these riders push the pace up to 27/28. Hardly out of this world and easily achievable with a bunch of strong riders on a flat circuit.

    Just ask what your mates are doing. if they are racing at cat 3 they are likely putting in many more miles than your current commute can provide, along with specific training sessions. I'm sure it's all there to see on Strava.
  • VamPVamP Posts: 674
    As soon as the OP mentioned speed this was going to digress wasn't it?.. he is merely saying that on some stretches these riders push the pace up to 27/28. Hardly out of this world and easily achievable with a bunch of strong riders on a flat circuit.

    Just ask what your mates are doing. if they are racing at cat 3 they are likely putting in many more miles than your current commute can provide, along with specific training sessions. I'm sure it's all there to see on Strava.

    This.

    Amateur racers will be putting in at least 8 to 10 hours a week with significant percentage at threshold and above. Best to structure your training in some way, just so you know what you're doing, although it sounds like you're relatively untrained (this is a good thing) so almost anything you do will help. Don't worry about speeds, it's building up your power and repeatability of going into the red that you want. Forget nonsense about cadence.
  • whoofwhoof Posts: 756
    An average ride pace of 23/24 mph is rediculous, I have guys on strava that ride a lot and they don't hit that level, 27/28 is just silly.

    It depends what the group ride is. The OP says it's flat for about an hour and most of the guys race. If it's a chain-gang then they are trying to replicate a break in a road race. If that is the case then the claimed ave speed (21 mph) is on the slow side and hitting 27/28 mph at times is not surprising. If this is what you want to partake in then I would suggest you do some research on interval training.

    I
  • diydiy Posts: 6,680
    If you are holding 23-27mph etc Aero will make a huge difference. I know this is a training thread, but for a 1 hour ride at that pace - you might want to look at kit upgrades in line with those done "TTing" a road bike. I noticed quit a difference at higher speeds going with 50mm wheels, slamming the front, inline post, extension etc. This is really where all these Aero road bikes can make a difference.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,016
    If you are holding 23-27mph etc Aero will make a huge difference. I know this is a training thread, but for a 1 hour ride at that pace - you might want to look at kit upgrades in line with those done "TTing" a road bike. I noticed quit a difference at higher speeds going with 50mm wheels, slamming the front, inline post, extension etc. This is really where all these Aero road bikes can make a difference.

    Aero is not going to make much difference on a group ride, and is not the reason why he can't keep up. Also, you really, really don't want to be using bar extensions on a fast group ride.
  • pastryboypastryboy Posts: 1,385
    Watch some of the videos on youtube of people doing laps around Regents Park if you're unsure how much difference being in a group makes.
  • bobmcstuffbobmcstuff Posts: 9,124
    An average ride pace of 23/24 mph is rediculous, I have guys on strava that ride a lot and they don't hit that level, 27/28 is just silly.

    It depends what the group ride is. The OP says it's flat for about an hour and most of the guys race. If it's a chain-gang then they are trying to replicate a break in a road race. If that is the case then the claimed ave speed (21 mph) is on the slow side and hitting 27/28 mph at times is not surprising. If this is what you want to partake in then I would suggest you do some research on interval training.

    I

    I agree, if it really is flat and by the sounds of the description about them being cat 3 and CX racers they're probably working together properly, 20+mph doesn't sound unreasonable.

    Also in the subsequent post he says the overall average is around 21mph, just 23/24 on the wide open flat bits.
  • fenixfenix Posts: 5,437
    Right - so its a chaingang then. That explains a bit more.

    I'd keep riding the way you are as it sounds to me like you're improving riding with them.

    What I would do is hit the turbo in the winter - look up the trainerroad thread - they have a training plan to boost your FTP - I think its 12 weeks long and about 5 hours a week. If you do that you'll improve a lot.
  • Right - so its a chaingang then. That explains a bit more.

    I'd keep riding the way you are as it sounds to me like you're improving riding with them.

    What I would do is hit the turbo in the winter - look up the trainerroad thread - they have a training plan to boost your FTP - I think its 12 weeks long and about 5 hours a week. If you do that you'll improve a lot.

    Here's that thread: The official TrainerRoad thread

    Adding to what Fenix said, the Base training plans are perfect for winter training. They're all about charging up your aerobic motor, burning fat, and getting you ready to build top end speed as the season picks up. Check out this article on the purpose of building base: Base Training Q & A
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