I want this now...
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Bah, humbug and all that, they'll be putting motors on them next ;-)0
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Well said. I ride a bike for the love of riding a bike and would still be riding even if it was a full rigid hippy rig and I believe technology and extra bits to twiddle and play with can, to some extent, rob us of the love of riding bikes - look at the love hate nature of something like Strava which in effect only allows us to work out where and how far we rode without having to manually plot it on a map and tells us if we beat our mates up or down that hill without our mate having to have been there.
I was slow to come to the Strava party and now love using it. I was skeptical about carbon until I finally bought mine. I didn't get a CD player until 1998.
I think I am a new tech technophobe from my youth - my dad bought us a Betamax and an Intellivision games console when everyone else had VHS and Atari - burnt at such a young age!
And yet you ride a bike with sophisticated suspension and pneumatic tyres...All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
Some people definitely draw a line with electronic assistance on a bike. That line can be blurred - many of us use lights, computers, power meters (if you shave your legs). So maybe it is electro-mechanical assistance tat people object to and see bikes as a pure solely mechanically operated macine. But you can further that argument - if you harness the energy from braking to power said devices, then it is yourself that as provided the energy to start with.
Electronic actuated dampers are not new, have been around for the best part of two decades, this is just a refinement.0 -
Some people definitely draw a line with electronic assistance on a bike. That line can be blurred - many of us use lights, computers, power meters (if you shave your legs). So maybe it is electro-mechanical assistance tat people object to and see bikes as a pure solely mechanically operated macine. But you can further that argument - if you harness the energy from braking to power said devices, then it is yourself that as provided the energy to start with.
Electronic actuated dampers are not new, have been around for the best part of two decades, this is just a refinement.
Electrical 'assistance' (i.e. e-bike) is entirely different from an electronic gizmo that just makes your components operate more efficiently. Other than those who have a physical need, I can't see the point - it's a pushbike not a motorbike. If I want to ride a motor bike, well, I'll get a motorbike. If you're too damn lazy to pedal, this is not the game for you. But I don't get the aversion to this sort of gizmo. I have a PUSHed Fox Float X on the back and a Pike on the front. Why would I not want them operating to their full potential all of the time? Seems nuts to somehow think that is a sin.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
Battery life is a non issue with such systems as they use such minute amounts of power. Forgot 2-3 weeks, it's more like 2 months between charges and there are fail safes built in to warn you when you're running low. Batteries are only going to get better too as things progress.
In the article they mention its time between charges as being two to three times greater than the Di2 drivetrain. They also mention 25 hours of actual riding time. Given that the time we actually spend riding is a whole lot less than the time we're out on our bikes, taking into account all the stopping we do, that's a lot. Even an all day epic, in reality, has far fewer hours of riding time than we like to pretend it does.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
Pretty much what I'm getting at. I'm sure the tech will get there eventually, but for now, it's not for me. I'm not an early adopter, I'm not rich enough! Some people will be though, and good luck to them. I poo-pooed the iphone when it came out, I saw it as 'pointless', guess who now has an iphone 5s after having had an iphone 4... (though I'm a bit miffed that the battery life is STILL as crap as it is). I probably said the same about a dropper post, but I wouldn't be without one now. Give it a few years, I might embrace it, if it doesn't turn out that it actually was a crap idea to begin with.
Call it fear, call me a miserable, skeptical sod, whatever. My mind won't be easily changed. Perhaps one day once the tech is old enough to be reliable and useable.
I think this is the crux of the subject and is refreshingly honest. Skepticism in new tech is perfectly natural, especially when it is of someting so averse to our current style and comprehension.
I think it is sensible to wait and see if the tech works and is reliable, no doubt in my mind it is going to be expensive so i certainly wouldnt want to feel i have wasted my money. This kit will only be successful if reviewed favourably and honestly.
For it to be really successful, it needs to have a fail safe so that if worst comes to the worst, a battery failure wont foul the shock performance too badly and will allow the bike to be rideable in more than a "limp home mode." Develop that part of the idea and it will quash a large portion of the complaints by people who havent tried it.
So, "wait and see" is the sensible option but the problem is that if no one adopts early enough, the tech can fail immediately and will never achieve it's potential greatness. Someone needs to take a leap of faith. We need to trust that the tech is good enough now and will only get better.
i remember being an early adopter of dropper posts, i struggled with a wobbly speedball for months fully believeing that it was a great idea all the while anyone i knew who rode bikes would say " i dont see the point, its just one more thing to fail and i can always get off and adjust my saddle whenever i like for free."
All of those people are now sporting a dropper post and in my opinion, you would have to be mental to ride any bike without one.
Oh and i wonder how many of the FS riders started their lives in the "FS is skill flattering/ expensive/ heavy/ pointless/not-as-good-as-my-legs-even-though-i-use-front-suspension-which-is-better-than-my-arms-for-some-reason/ etc etc etc camp.
Even if you dont believe it will ever be for you; Look at the idea and the problem it is trying to overcome, understand and appreciate that not all problems exist for everyone, then be thankfull that bikes and their associated tech havent reached a stall point.
I suppose what i am really saying is, never say Never!!0 -
Some people definitely draw a line with electronic assistance on a bike. That line can be blurred - many of us use lights, computers, power meters (if you shave your legs). So maybe it is electro-mechanical assistance tat people object to and see bikes as a pure solely mechanically operated macine. But you can further that argument - if you harness the energy from braking to power said devices, then it is yourself that as provided the energy to start with.
Electronic actuated dampers are not new, have been around for the best part of two decades, this is just a refinement.
Electrical 'assistance' (i.e. e-bike) is entirely different from an electronic gizmo that just makes your components operate more efficiently. Other than those who have a physical need, I can't see the point - it's a pushbike not a motorbike. If I want to ride a motor bike, well, I'll get a motorbike. If you're too damn lazy to pedal, this is not the game for you. But I don't get the aversion to this sort of gizmo. I have a PUSHed Fox Float X on the back and a Pike on the front. Why would I not want them operating to their full potential all of the time? Seems nuts to somehow think that is a sin.
Di2 does the physical shift for you, many would say that was assistance. Maybe people are just too damned lazy to set their gears up properly and push a lever, cable and spring? Maybe...0 -
Some people definitely draw a line with electronic assistance on a bike. That line can be blurred - many of us use lights, computers, power meters (if you shave your legs). So maybe it is electro-mechanical assistance tat people object to and see bikes as a pure solely mechanically operated macine. But you can further that argument - if you harness the energy from braking to power said devices, then it is yourself that as provided the energy to start with.
Electronic actuated dampers are not new, have been around for the best part of two decades, this is just a refinement.
Electrical 'assistance' (i.e. e-bike) is entirely different from an electronic gizmo that just makes your components operate more efficiently. Other than those who have a physical need, I can't see the point - it's a pushbike not a motorbike. If I want to ride a motor bike, well, I'll get a motorbike. If you're too damn lazy to pedal, this is not the game for you. But I don't get the aversion to this sort of gizmo. I have a PUSHed Fox Float X on the back and a Pike on the front. Why would I not want them operating to their full potential all of the time? Seems nuts to somehow think that is a sin.
Di2 does the shift for you, many would say that was assistance. Maybe people are just too damned lazy to set their gears up properly and push a lever, cable and spring? Maybe...
Mmm... that's stretching it a little, don't you think.
While Di2 seems like a solution to a problem that's already been adequately solved, does it really matter if it's a cable or a remote signal that goes from the trigger to the mech?All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
It's not the signal that some people object to - it's a servo/motor doing the work. Now I happen to personally think it works brilliantly, but some people will always object for this reason.
We have electronic droppers in the offing, and I am sure it won't be long before we see servos in brakes. Though is hard to see people needing more power than a Zee. But in years they might be viewed as just adequate again.0 -
Well said. I ride a bike for the love of riding a bike and would still be riding even if it was a full rigid hippy rig and I believe technology and extra bits to twiddle and play with can, to some extent, rob us of the love of riding bikes - look at the love hate nature of something like Strava which in effect only allows us to work out where and how far we rode without having to manually plot it on a map and tells us if we beat our mates up or down that hill without our mate having to have been there.
I was slow to come to the Strava party and now love using it. I was skeptical about carbon until I finally bought mine. I didn't get a CD player until 1998.
I think I am a new tech technophobe from my youth - my dad bought us a Betamax and an Intellivision games console when everyone else had VHS and Atari - burnt at such a young age!
And yet you ride a bike with sophisticated suspension and pneumatic tyres...
I am pretty sure pneumatic tyres were about before I was born so not sure I can be seen as an early adopter of those even by my own techno-retard standards. Suspension? Well my first "mountain" bike was fully rigid and then I went to a hardtail for a few years. baby steps.
Actually my first ever bike as a kid (god knows where my dad found it) had solid rubber tyres and rod brakes.
Why are you so keen to push this on people - where were your calls for everyone to embrace 27.5+ and Boost and all that cr*p?Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
On the 27.5+ point - I saw this the other day.....http://nsmb.com/uncle-dave-eats-27-5-crow/Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0
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Why are you so keen to push this on people - where were your calls for everyone to embrace 27.5+ and Boost and all that cr*p?
What an odd thing to say. I'm not keen to push this on anyone. I couldn't care less if anyone takes to this or not. I am mildly fascinated by all the lame excuses that are cropping up here to try to justify the fear of change (I might have to plug it in over night once every three months etc, etc), but beyond that it's a free world, buy or don't buy, it's none of my business.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
How about this. I'll think about buying a bike with Di2 and electronically controlled suspension when it doesn't involve a quadrupling of the price for an incremental improvement in performance. Most of the technological improvements that have become ubiquitous in mountain biking have been major improvements like suspension and disc brakes and gears with sufficient range to cover your requirements. I don't buy xtr as the expense far outweighs the benefits for my usage. The same applies to Di2 and electronic suspension.
Di2 does seem expensive for slightly better shift quality. Especially as I really like the feel of my shifting, quite satisfying, and it never does anything unexpected.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
"I don't buy xtr as the expense far outweighs the benefits for my usage. The same applies to Di2 and electronic suspension,"
This is the reason I will not be buying. The performance gain over my current 2x9 XT/XTR is just not enough to warrant it, and it weighs a little more if you go for the double shifter - that said is impressively light still for a battery/servo set up.0 -
i think it is an interesting idea.
Ive got nothing against modern ideas and progression in mtb. And as such, i like the sound of this. shame it looks so bloomin ugly though! couldnt the box of trixks be mounted under the saddle or somthing?
There are a lot of people who dont want change and i dont have any issue with that but i do wonder why those people dont go the whole hog and get rid of the suspension on both ends of their bikes too. i mean, surely that s technology making the bikes easier to ride over tougher terrain than before, surely there is more satisfaction to be found in using good old fashioned leg and arm suspension.
People can be oddly schizophrenic when it comes to what technology they will and won't accept. And that seems especially so of mountain bikers.
Don't forget roadies balking at the thought of disk brakes slowly creeping in!0 -
Yes but you're like a dog with a bone here. Keep poking us, you'll keep getting the same answer. Show us that it actually works and some of us might change our tunes.Why are you so keen to push this on people - where were your calls for everyone to embrace 27.5+ and Boost and all that cr*p?
What an odd thing to say. I'm not keen to push this on anyone. I couldn't care less if anyone takes to this or not. I am mildly fascinated by all the lame excuses that are cropping up here to try to justify the fear of change (I might have to plug it in over night once every three months etc, etc), but beyond that it's a free world, buy or don't buy, it's none of my business.0 -
I'm going to take that with a pinch of salt, mainly on the basis that I hated the Genius LT I tried the other day.On the 27.5+ point - I saw this the other day.....http://nsmb.com/uncle-dave-eats-27-5-crow/
I'd also like to know how it's different to the ridiculous tyres found on downhill rigs back in the day, because they were a bloody awful idea.0 -
Having owned a cross bike with discs, I can say that I don't really see the point of discs on a road bike, aside from saving a little money/hassle on replacing your rims every few years...
Actually discs on road bikes are a good example of something that might be pointless technology. Due to the tyre limitations you can already lock up under brakes quite easily using dual pivot callipers. All my mountain bikes have hydraulic disks but if I replace my roadie tomorrow I won't go out of my way to get one with discs. That might be different if I lived in the mountains though.i think it is an interesting idea.
Ive got nothing against modern ideas and progression in mtb. And as such, i like the sound of this. shame it looks so bloomin ugly though! couldnt the box of trixks be mounted under the saddle or somthing?
There are a lot of people who dont want change and i dont have any issue with that but i do wonder why those people dont go the whole hog and get rid of the suspension on both ends of their bikes too. i mean, surely that s technology making the bikes easier to ride over tougher terrain than before, surely there is more satisfaction to be found in using good old fashioned leg and arm suspension.
People can be oddly schizophrenic when it comes to what technology they will and won't accept. And that seems especially so of mountain bikers.
Don't forget roadies balking at the thought of disk brakes slowly creeping in!0 -
No drawbacks for a pro with discs. The bikes will still weigh 6.8kg. But for mr 'Ive got £500', they will see the discs eat budget, and weights go up as cheaper parts go on, as well as the weight of the discs.0
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No drawbacks for a pro with discs. The bikes will still weigh 6.8kg. But for mr 'Ive got £500', they will see the discs eat budget, and weights go up as cheaper parts go on, as well as the weight of the discs.
If I was a regular centurion riding roadie and went out in the dry and wet I'd be keen for the all condition stopping power of discs but as I havent riden my road bike since May it falls into the same category as Di2 - an unimportant expense.Angus Young wrote:Di2 does seem expensive for slightly better shift quality. Especially as I really like the feel of my shifting, quite satisfying, and it never does anything unexpected.
I don't often find my suspension doing anything I don't expect that makes me feel I need electronics to help me out either.....ilovedirt wrote:Yes but you're like a dog with a bone here. Keep poking us, you'll keep getting the same answer. Show us that it actually works and some of us might change our tunes.
What he said.Closet jockey wheel pimp whore.0 -
Yes but you're like a dog with a bone here. Keep poking us, you'll keep getting the same answer.
Not at all. I just have a different view than you do. Am I supposed to just say "O.K. my mistake"?Show us that it actually works and some of us might change our tunes.
Well, so far, the only available evidence suggests that it does. Brilliantly. I suspect that more evidence won't change your mind. Though, just like all those people who tried to convince the world that droppers were just a silly frippery and something more to go wrong, you'll all end up riding it eventually.
All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
So far the only sources we have are those that are likely paid to tell us that it's amazing, and probably will be the only sources for a while. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm sure gripshift was hailed as the "next big thing" at some pointYes but you're like a dog with a bone here. Keep poking us, you'll keep getting the same answer.
Not at all. I just have a different view than you do. Am I supposed to just say "O.K. my mistake"?Show us that it actually works and some of us might change our tunes.
Well, so far, the only available evidence suggests that it does. Brilliantly. I suspect that more evidence won't change your mind. Though, just like all those people who tried to convince the world that droppers were just a silly frippery and something more to go wrong, you'll all end up riding it eventually.0 -
So far the only sources we have are those that are likely paid to tell us that it's amazing, and probably will be the only sources for a while. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm sure gripshift was hailed as the "next big thing" at some point
Were they paid to tell us it is amazing? Maybe. I don't know. Do you?All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
What would put me off is if the electronics die does that mean I need a new shock? Does it limit tuning? It's water tight as new but how about in a year or two? Is there any adjustment or modulation within the system or is it an on or off switch?
My Cane Creek shock has the most efficient climb setting I have ever used, I wouldn't feel the need to spend £500 replacing what I think is already excellent.Transition Patrol - viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=130702350 -
What would put me off is if the electronics die does that mean I need a new shock? Does it limit tuning? It's water tight as new but how about in a year or two? Is there any adjustment or modulation within the system or is it an on or off switch?
My Cane Creek shock has the most efficient climb setting I have ever used, I wouldn't feel the need to spend £500 replacing what I think is already excellent.
And yet, every review I've read about the CC shock talks about reliability issues but that didn't put you off...All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
So far the only sources we have are those that are likely paid to tell us that it's amazing, and probably will be the only sources for a while. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm sure gripshift was hailed as the "next big thing" at some point
Were they paid to tell us it is amazing? Maybe. I don't know. Do you?
No, but with them only allowing one person to ride it and review it, I wouldn't trust the review not to be unbiased, even if the reviewer thought he was impartial.0 -
So far the only sources we have are those that are likely paid to tell us that it's amazing, and probably will be the only sources for a while. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm sure gripshift was hailed as the "next big thing" at some point
Were they paid to tell us it is amazing? Maybe. I don't know. Do you?
No, but with them only allowing one person to ride it and review it, I wouldn't trust the review not to be unbiased, even if the reviewer thought he was impartial.
Of course. And I'm not suggesting it's definitive. But it's all we have at this point so, if we take it at face value, most of the objections here are covered. Of course, if, when this hits the streets, people's bikes are spending more time in the shop than on the trail, or it doesn't make for a better ride, or doesn't hold a charge etc, etc, then I'm with you.All the gear, no idea and loving the smell of jealousy in the morning.
Kona Process 134 viewtopic.php?f=10017&t=129946070 -
Who knows, maybe? But it's one opinion, and I can't truly form an opinion on its performance without having ridden it.So far the only sources we have are those that are likely paid to tell us that it's amazing, and probably will be the only sources for a while. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I'm sure gripshift was hailed as the "next big thing" at some point
Were they paid to tell us it is amazing? Maybe. I don't know. Do you?
I have however formed an opinion on whether or not it's for me, and personally I can't see myself needing/wanting it. I make a point of ridding my bike of unnecessary complexities and only using kit that I think is functional and robust. It doesn't strike me that this is any of those things.0
