Tour de France 2015: Stage 12 **Spoiler**
Comments
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Every single mountain stage in the Giro had time gaps. There was significant mano a mano between the leaders. There were many stages outside the GT tactic book and the now accepted way of riding GTs. It was straight out of the , legend making moves, pure racing.
Pyrenees are over in the Tour and from a GC perspective we have had.
-One burn up climb with a shockingly strong performance by one team and some under performances by other riders. I can see how that would be borderline exciting, if you were a fan of Sky.
-One tempo stage with a flurry of activity at the end.
-One Queen stage ridden at tempo for its entirety, with a Sky set ridiculous pace, a few half hearted attacks into a headwind subsequently brought back by Sky's lackies and culminating in zero time gaps between the top 6 on GC who followed Skys 3rd lacky (still better than basically all the other team leaders in this race) home to the finish and a dry set of clothes.
Don't talk about moaning, as if I and others do it for fun. You will find that we will be among the first to sing a good race's praises. Some people just enjoy with no passion and simply don't know how to reach levels of emotion on both ends of the spectrum.
I have watched more than enough races in my life to know what is legitimately exciting and what isn't.
I just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics.
Maybe I need to take a break from pro cycling to appreciate it more. Too much of a good thing and all that.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Seeing as no one else has mentioned it.
12
NED 7 GESINK, Robert (LOTTO NL - JUMBO) + 5:32
FRA 8 GALLOPIN, Tony (LOTTO SOUDAL) + 7:32
ITA 9 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA) + 7:47
NED 10 MOLLEMA, Bauke (TREK FACTORY RACING) + 8:02
FRA 11 BARGUIL, Warren (GIANT - ALPECIN) + 9:43
11
FRA 7 GALLOPIN, Tony (LOTTO SOUDAL) + 4:33
NED 8 GESINK, Robert (LOTTO NL - JUMBO) + 4:35
FRA 9 BARGUIL, Warren (GIANT - ALPECIN) + 6:44
NED 10 MOLLEMA, Bauke (TREK FACTORY RACING) + 7:05
ITA 11 NIBALI, Vincenzo (ASTANA) + 7:47Contador is the Greatest0 -
As for the stages to come in the Alps.
Stage 17 and 18 are easier than some training rides Contador does solo. Very easy gradients throughout and easy to control. The only thing that can make them interesting is a crosswind, a crash or a mechanical.
Stage 19 looks more promising and there are lots of possibilities here. Set an infernal rhythm on the first climb to splinter it. Go for long range on off the HC. Attack on the Mollard, take risks on the short descent and power up the Toussure. Also quite a short stage. I have high hopes but fear that tired legs and worry about stage 20 could curtail most action.
Stage 20 is also tasty on paper. Hopefully Froome has binned a decent amount of time on stage 19 leaving it rather more open. Last stage and a short one means those who would rather fight for the podium than defend their top ten might give it everything. Or someone who needs to rescue their Tour with a huge win. It would be great if it cracked off on the HC but there is a really long descent and approach the the Alpe which will deter many riders. So if there are no attacks there then all we can hope for is that dull and tiny Porte has been shelled somehow and Froome has to defend by himself left right and centre on the Alpe.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Twinkling Valverde interview on the highlights:
"Well, we were a lot closer today than Stage 10."
Froome's attack at 4km was pretty cheeky. Didn't want to be the only former winner not to attack....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Every single mountain stage in the Giro had time gaps. There was significant mano a mano between the leaders. There were many stages outside the GT tactic book and the now accepted way of riding GTs. It was straight out of the , legend making moves, pure racing.
Pyrenees are over in the Tour and from a GC perspective we have had.
-One burn up climb with a shockingly strong performance (EH? BEATING GALLOPIN BY 2'22 AND GESINK BY 1'33?) by one team (NOWHERE NEAR AS STRONG AS ASTANA IN SEVERAL GTS) and some under performances by other riders. I can see how that would be borderline exciting, if you were a fan of Sky.
-One tempo stage with a flurry of activity at the end.
-One Queen stage (STAGE 19 ALREADY?) ridden at tempo for its entirety, with a Sky set ridiculous pace (A PACE THAT ALLOWED THE BREAKAWAY TO GET 13 MINUTES AHEAD), a few half hearted attacks into a headwind subsequently brought back by Sky's lackies and culminating in zero time gaps between the top 6 on GC who followed Skys 3rd lacky (still better than basically all the other team leaders in this race) home to the finish and a dry set of clothes.
Don't talk about moaning, as if I and others do it for fun. You will find that we will be among the first to sing a good race's praises. Some people just enjoy with no passion and simply don't know how to reach levels of emotion on both ends of the spectrum. (A GOOD RACE BEING ONE WHERE CONTADOR IS WINNING YOU MEAN?)
I have watched more than enough races in my life to know what is legitimately exciting and what isn't.
I just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics. (WONDER WHY)
Maybe I need to take a break from pro cycling to appreciate it more. Too much of a good thing and all that.
COMMENTS IN CAPS ABOVE.0 -
deltete0
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I just realized Arredondo is in this race. Reckon that guy's contract needs to be looked at. He came and lit up the Giro last year winning the mountain prize, fighting spirit prize and one stage, providing huge entertainment for the fans. Since then he has been off the radar and gets dropped on most climbs. Very unusual drop in performance.Contador is the Greatest0
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Sky were on a training ride until the final climb: Stannard led over 2 cols (?). None of the other teams tried a single thing to put them under pressure. That was abysmal on such a rewarding parcours, and nothing to do with any stifling tactics on the final climb.
Astana have cratered and Tinkoff is too stretched to give 100% to Giro and Tour. Nairo isn't far away. He's still a young man and this is his first Tour as leader. When the Stage 10 shellshock (bunch of amateurs) wears off, there are enough desperados in the race for the mojo to make a comeback....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
I just realized Arredondo is in this race. Reckon that guy's contract needs to be looked at. He came and lit up the Giro last year winning the mountain prize, fighting spirit prize and one stage, providing huge entertainment for the fans. Since then he has been off the radar and gets dropped on most climbs. Very unusual drop in performance.
He was supposedly going for polka but that didn't materialise either.0 -
I have watched more than enough races in my life to know what is legitimately exciting and what isn't.
I just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics.
Maybe I need to take a break from pro cycling to appreciate it more. Too much of a good thing and all that.
I like your passion FF, but I think you're wrong here - Froome is a very exciting rider, whether you're a fan or not. He is an out and out racer. Sure he's got a strong team who can close things down, but he will go toe to toe.
Your Contador fan-ness make you see his racing through a distorted lens. There is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But Contador / Schleck wasn't that exciting. When I think about Contador and outstanding performance in the Tour the only thing that really springs to mind is Verbier. And that was so ET it was like something out of a sci fi film.
A lot of people here (me included) feel the same way when Valverde wins a race. But I'm sure we can say he's a classy bike rider and does ride in an exciting way. But it doesn't mean he's to everyones tasteFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Ooooh there is something to get excited by. They are doing the descent into Gap!
Have such wonderful memories of when the legendary racer Vinokourov won the stage (what a beauty it was watching that guy turn the pedals in anger) and Contador deliberately disrupting the chase to catch him and then hugging at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWQMBxY5fDk
My post from the spoiler thread that day:VINO
What a move by Vino. He is too strong. Very pleased for his win - he really wanted it and deserves one.
A shame that P+P, Boardman and that loser that can't keep his eyes open in front of the camera have to mention over and over about Vino's past. Why haven't they mentioned about Lance, Hincappie, DaveZ etc.
That was a very exciting finish. Ballan - great move, such a shame he didn't have the legs. Cunego - no legs, no surprise. Roche was attacking on the climb. Voeckler - never disappoints, some superb close up shots of him descending.
Yeah what a move by Contador. The biggest GC favourite not afraid to power to the front and disrupt the train.
Anyone who thought or still thinks that Astana were not a united team are very much mistaken.
Very surprised that all the sprinters were there, good job for them. Nice sprint for Cav.
I also have brilliant memories of Mende in the Tour and in Paris Nice (two) so hoping that stage can be interesting.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Ex-forumer DaveyL just sent me this in email
Quite interesting
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2004 and 2015 TdFs both had a stage from Lannemezan to Plateau de Beille
The 2004 stage was 205.5 km and took in the following climbs:
Km 42.5: Col des Ares, 4 km at 4.7%
Km 64: Col de Portet d'Aspet, 4.4 km at 9.8%
Km 99.5: Col de la Core, 14.2 km at 6%
Km 131: Col de Latrape, 5.6 km at 7.7%
Km 146: Col d'Agnes, 9.8 km at 8.2%
Km 155: Port de Lers, 3.8 km at 5.7%
Km 205.5: Plateau de Beille, 15.9 km at 7.8%
The 2004 stage avg speed was 33.8 km/hr.
The 2015 route was 195 km and took in the following cols:
Km 57.5: Col de Portet d'Aspet, 4.4 km at 9.8%
Km 93: Col de la Core, 14.2 km at 6%
Km 144: Port de Lers, 12.9 km at 6%
Km 195: Plateau de Beille, 15.9 km at 7.8%
The 2015 stage avg speed was 33.6 km/hr.
The 2004 stage was 10 km longer, with an extra 11 km of climbing amounting to an extra 900 m of ascent (3/4 of a Plateau de Beille) and was run 0.2 km/hr faster.
--Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I have watched more than enough races in my life to know what is legitimately exciting and what isn't.
I just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics.
Maybe I need to take a break from pro cycling to appreciate it more. Too much of a good thing and all that.
I like your passion FF, but I think you're wrong here - Froome is a very exciting rider, whether you're a fan or not. He is an out and out racer. Sure he's got a strong team who can close things down, but he will go toe to toe.
Your Contador fan-ness make you see his racing through a distorted lens. There is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But Contador / Schleck wasn't that exciting. When I think about Contador and outstanding performance in the Tour the only thing that really springs to mind is Verbier. And that was so ET it was like something out of a sci fi film.
A lot of people here (me included) feel the same way when Valverde wins a race. But I'm sure we can say he's a classy bike rider and does ride in an exciting way. But it doesn't mean he's to everyones taste
Agree. There have been some great Froome v Contador battles in the last couple of years.0 -
Do riders pay any attention to zoomer talk of Froome's invincibility? While it's essential fuel for the doping narrative, does it also work to his advantage?...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0
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I was engrossed from beginning to end. From Hesjedal missing the break at the beginning all the way through to the end. The makeup of the break, Astana's tactics, the split in the break, Kwiatkowski, wondering which domestique Sky would use up and when, watching all the fancied riders falling off the back of the peloton, J-Rod's attack, Fuglesang and Bardet - and that's not even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the GC group over those 3km, especially G's heroics.Absolutely nothing happend but from 6km-3km though..
3km of action on the queen stage.
When does one lose one's sense of excitement from watching this sort of racing?
Okay, I think this season has been phenomenal so far because of actual proper racing. This, for me, sounds like finding joy in little things (things that happens in every single race..) because of aknowledging that this wasn't actuallly that good. Even the commentators here were half asleep (and that's with a dane about to win in the break in Jakob!!)
But fair enough if you find joy in that, I just don't.
There's nothing worse than people calling out people as moaners (not you, just in general) because they don't see the fantastic in all the simple things that happen during basically every race.
This season has shown us so many times that we can expect much more than we got today.0 -
I have watched more than enough races in my life to know what is legitimately exciting and what isn't.
I just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics.
Maybe I need to take a break from pro cycling to appreciate it more. Too much of a good thing and all that.
I like your passion FF, but I think you're wrong here - Froome is a very exciting rider, whether you're a fan or not. He is an out and out racer. Sure he's got a strong team who can close things down, but he will go toe to toe.
Your Contador fan-ness make you see his racing through a distorted lens. There is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But Contador / Schleck wasn't that exciting. When I think about Contador and outstanding performance in the Tour the only thing that really springs to mind is Verbier. And that was so ET it was like something out of a sci fi film.
A lot of people here (me included) feel the same way when Valverde wins a race. But I'm sure we can say he's a classy bike rider and does ride in an exciting way. But it doesn't mean he's to everyones taste
Well you know my feelings on Froome and his racing ability. My ire is with Sky and the fact they have the ability to close a race down and ruin the spectacle. I am sure that if it was team leader against team leader Froome would be top three most exciting. The guy has fire in his heart. Other than that his style and general ugliness on the bike lessons my enjoyment of him as does his meteoric performances, majority seated climbing and ridiculous 150 rpm attacks.
Maybe you didn't enjoy the Contador Schleck era. I think most people did though. And as for Contador and outstanding performances, specifically in terms of ET performances, well it is good that there are not too many even though there are some and to be honest, his wins were much more exciting as they were normally built up and not just one knockout blow then defend. In addition to Verbier you can add Etna and a couple more Giro climbs.
It is worth pointing it out the Contador has been duking it out at the highest level longer than anyone which in itself is remarkable.
Do you think you would ever see a Sky rider doing a track stand half way up an MTF? a la Contador-Schleck?! Absolutely brilliant stuff those boys brought to the table, especially with Frank in the mix.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2KOQrYYL_k
(play it with sound)Contador is the Greatest0 -
Ex-forumer DaveyL
What a blast from the bast! I am breaking out in a sweat just thinking of the battles with this avatar.
You will like this thread iain
viewtopic.php?f=40002&t=12645669Contador is the Greatest0 -
A great stage. Foul weather, all the top guys riding on the limit, trying an attack to see how the others are going. A war of attrition, survival of the fittest. I was enthralled for the whole stage cos I love cycling and I am aware that you have to have the legs to attack, not just the parcourse. The days of a Tour favorite riding away from the bunch with two climbs still to go are a thing of the, chemicaly enhanced, past. I can find interest and excitement in any stage, and no its not over yet. Its not over till the end of the final stage, anything can happen.
Oh, and Froomes 6k attack to shred the rest of the favorits was heroic, If Contador had done that FF would have been crowing about the panache of "His man".
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Nothing lasts forever. Even the greatest fade eventuallyI just know that watching Contador and others when he was flying against Schleck and others in year's gone by got me into unbelievable levels of excitement, emotional overdrive, pure unadulterated joy. I haven't felt that for a very long time, just now and again when you see some heroics.
You used to love him racing against Schleck, but he always had Schleck in his pocket. Even in 2010 when it seemed close, Contador always knew he would whip him in the TT. Schleck never beat Contador at anything on the road.
The greatest victories are the one's where you are tested the most. And for Contador, of all his seven GTs (nine if you like), his best wins are the two Vuelta wins in 2012 and 2014 - 2012 for the audacious attack that stole the jersey and 2014 because Froome was the rival that Schleck never was.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Also remember stage 17 is a copy of stage 5 from the Dauphine, featuring the tricky Col d'Allos descent where Bardet jumped away and won up to Pra-Loup. Potential for attacks there for sure you'd think...Ooooh there is something to get excited by. They are doing the descent into Gap!0 -
I like your passion FF, but I think you're wrong here - Froome is a very exciting rider, whether you're a fan or not. He is an out and out racer. Sure he's got a strong team who can close things down, but he will go toe to toe.
Your Contador fan-ness make you see his racing through a distorted lens. There is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But Contador / Schleck wasn't that exciting. When I think about Contador and outstanding performance in the Tour the only thing that really springs to mind is Verbier. And that was so ET it was like something out of a sci fi film.
A lot of people here (me included) feel the same way when Valverde wins a race. But I'm sure we can say he's a classy bike rider and does ride in an exciting way. But it doesn't mean he's to everyones taste
I suspect it's Froome's personality, or rather lack there of, that prevents some people warming to him. People want charismatic GC contenders, not PR polished grey men who are scared to take a stand or say anything controversial. No-one can deny his form this year; he's dominating the race. It's just a shame there isn't enough competition to prevent it from appearing a done deal.
The first week was the highlight for me. Absolutely stunning racing. This week has been a little too much like a procession, with the exception of one day.0 -
Ex-forumer DaveyL just sent me this in email
Quite interesting
The 2004 stage was 10 km longer, with an extra 11 km of climbing amounting to an extra 900 m of ascent (3/4 of a Plateau de Beille) and was run 0.2 km/hr faster.
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Excellent. Ta. The outrage abroad is embarrassing. Some will cringe in the morning and the drooler pool will drain a bit. And thanks for exposing Frenchie's avatar dossier....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
I thought today was a little less than entertaining. That's wholly down to the gc contenders failing to put any pressure at all on Froome or Sky. What I am really having trouble with however is which of the following gives me most joy:
Froome leading and looking fairly dominant. Epic performance on Tuesday to take advantage of the others weakness/lack of form/bad day. One ugly riding style though
Sky being as strong as they are. Obviously chose their team well to do specific tasks. Roche however I think could have stayed at home. I would say he has been a disappointment but I didn't think he had enough form to be chosen in the first place.
The amount of promising young talent on show. The future seems bright.
Contador being absolutely nowhere
Frenchies bleating....really is quite special..0 -
I dread to ask, but 'Drooler pool'?0
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this should inspire you thenIs the longest running argument I've seen on the forum - longer than even doping: "cycling needs to be less boring"
Maybe it's not the sport for you?
I quite like the idea of rock climbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zKuQttH1kE0 -
That's just what the common perception of Froome is, it's not actually accurate. Would a polished grey PR man barge onto the Astana bus for a chat with Nibali about the bottle throwing incident, for example? Froome also doesn't have to be so outspoken about doping and what he's trying to do to prove he's clean, hardly dodging controversy there is he?[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19654495#p19654495]The Loyal Lieutenant[/url] wrote:I like your passion FF, but I think you're wrong here - Froome is a very exciting rider, whether you're a fan or not. He is an out and out racer. Sure he's got a strong team who can close things down, but he will go toe to toe.
Your Contador fan-ness make you see his racing through a distorted lens. There is nothing wrong with that, we all do it. But Contador / Schleck wasn't that exciting. When I think about Contador and outstanding performance in the Tour the only thing that really springs to mind is Verbier. And that was so ET it was like something out of a sci fi film.
A lot of people here (me included) feel the same way when Valverde wins a race. But I'm sure we can say he's a classy bike rider and does ride in an exciting way. But it doesn't mean he's to everyones taste
I suspect it's Froome's personality, or rather lack there of, that prevents people warming to him. People want charismatic GC contendors, not PR polished grey men who are scared to take a stand or say anything controversial. No-one can deny his form this year; he's dominating the race. It's just a shame there isn't enough competition to prevent it from appearing a done deal.
I really don't know what people expect to get from star athletes - I don't think Contador or Nibali or Quintana are exactly larger than life characters either, are they??0 -
Nothing lasts forever. Even the greatest fade eventually
Sadly this...
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Days like this to give you goosebumps.
In case you want to watch it again. See here from the Andy Schleck attack 10km from the summit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmsERu8HxS4
ps. sound on if you want to listen to Fignon who was doing the commentary with his failing voiceContador is the Greatest0 -
Also remember stage 17 is a copy of stage 5 from the Dauphine, featuring the tricky Col d'Allos descent where Bardet jumped away and won up to Pra-Loup. Potential for attacks there for sure you'd think...Ooooh there is something to get excited by. They are doing the descent into Gap!
Forgot about that. Could be tasty then. Thanks for pointing it out.Contador is the Greatest0 -
That was the day George Hincapie was dropping GC contenders as he drove the pace on the Agnes I think? I just remember laughing, it was so obvious what was going on.Ex-forumer DaveyL just sent me this in email
Quite interesting
--
2004 and 2015 TdFs both had a stage from Lannemezan to Plateau de Beille
The 2004 stage was 205.5 km and took in the following climbs:
Km 42.5: Col des Ares, 4 km at 4.7%
Km 64: Col de Portet d'Aspet, 4.4 km at 9.8%
Km 99.5: Col de la Core, 14.2 km at 6%
Km 131: Col de Latrape, 5.6 km at 7.7%
Km 146: Col d'Agnes, 9.8 km at 8.2%
Km 155: Port de Lers, 3.8 km at 5.7%
Km 205.5: Plateau de Beille, 15.9 km at 7.8%
The 2004 stage avg speed was 33.8 km/hr.
The 2015 route was 195 km and took in the following cols:
Km 57.5: Col de Portet d'Aspet, 4.4 km at 9.8%
Km 93: Col de la Core, 14.2 km at 6%
Km 144: Port de Lers, 12.9 km at 6%
Km 195: Plateau de Beille, 15.9 km at 7.8%
The 2015 stage avg speed was 33.6 km/hr.
The 2004 stage was 10 km longer, with an extra 11 km of climbing amounting to an extra 900 m of ascent (3/4 of a Plateau de Beille) and was run 0.2 km/hr faster.
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This performance, and his stage win the following year when he jumped Pereiro in the final km of a mountain stage, led to some journos touting him as a future Tour winner. Jesus wept, they must've been at the Kool Aid.0
