Tour de France 2015: Stage 12 **Spoiler**
Comments
-
Is the longest running argument I've seen on the forum - longer than even doping: "cycling needs to be less boring"
Maybe it's not the sport for you?
I have been watching nearly every race since 2007. Recently I have been questioning myself whether I should curtail my interaction with the sport quite substantially.
I quite like the idea of rock climbing.
I've been watching every tour since 1989. There used to be more excitement in terms of lone range efforts and mad attacks in the mid 1990s and 2000s but as we know now (and probably many knew then) it was all EPO bullshit. The racing has changed but I prefer watching what I consider realistic physical achievements.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19654280#p19654280]Le Commentateur[/url] wrote:The bells... the bells......
(edit: watching delayed transmission... when the coverage got stuck on a church due to the weather).
I thought you were making a Quasimodo reference0 -
Looking at the photos of Froome on that climb he was seriously on the rivet...the other guys lost out badly there not hammering him more and had Porte and Thomas not been there he might have been in real difficulty.
As is often the case with wet weather and good light the photos are quite amazing.
I particularly like this one. Faces are something else:
Fantastic finish line photo. Edits of these are going to be shots to treasure.
Could look at photos of G all day long.
Contador is the Greatest0 -
But what I'm disagreeing with is your opinion of this Tour being really boring, it was an exciting opening week and there's still plenty of mountains left - you never know Froome could pull a Contador and lose a load of time on Stage 20
To clarify, I did really enjoy the first week for the most part. My comments relate to the last three stages.Contador is the Greatest0 -
I usually find that people complain about a sport being boring when their particular hero/team is not doing too well. I think this Tour is brilliant!
You're quite right. The Contador fanboys and girls are out in force, moaning at every opportunity about Froome this and Froome that. The simple fact is Contador has done a Giro already. Every forum at the moment has a load of moaning minnies, which is all the more surprising given Contador's past.
If they don't want to watch it, then why are they watching it.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not0 -
Is the longest running argument I've seen on the forum - longer than even doping: "cycling needs to be less boring"
Maybe it's not the sport for you?
I have been watching nearly every race since 2007. Recently I have been questioning myself whether I should curtail my interaction with the sport quite substantially.
I quite like the idea of rock climbing.
You should watch test cricket. Five days in front of the telly with the potential of a draw.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not
It's been tremendous. Yesterday was always going to be a damp squib, but today was enthralling even if it didn't amount to much in terms of time gaps.0 -
I don't know why Frenchie keeps moaning about Froome and the race being boring.
He should be moaning about Oleg Tinkoff.
He's the clown who made out all it took to ride and win the Giro and Tour was just a matter of a few tweets.
He knew the simple minded Contador groupies would buy into the fantasy."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Looking at the photos of Froome on that climb he was seriously on the rivet...the other guys lost out badly there not hammering him more and had Porte and Thomas not been there he might have been in real difficulty.
I particularly like this one. Faces are something else:
Just missing Nibali. Amazing shot....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not
It's been tremendous. Yesterday was always going to be a damp squib, but today was enthralling even if it didn't amount to much in terms of time gaps.
Absolutely nothing happened but from 6km-3km though..
3km of action on the queen stage.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not
I've been watching for 6 or 7 years and I'm still quite happy to watch normal, predictable sprint stages. Horses for courses. I just love pro cycling.
One of Froome's weaknesses is his cycling brain or perhaps it's his composure under stress. He seems to get carried away with himself and the moment. Today he was still 5k out with a team mate doing a great job of work and he decides to put in a pretty mediocre attack before sitting up and looking around.
If Thomas hadn't of been able to get back to the group and set a tempo before Quintana, Contador, TJ and Valverde managed to make an attack stick then Froome would have been in real trouble. He just managed to shut down a couple of counter attacks before Thomas got back but another minute and one of them would have got away.0 -
Today was the first disappointing day of the tour IMO, I thought it would go apesh*t early doors. I was surprised how little was done by both Contador and Quintana, but the first is just knackered and the second seems a little off his best and is getting little actual help from his team. Wasn't Izaguirre in the break today? Why didn't he drop back? Valverde is riding for Valverde of course.0
-
Classic Sky tactic today of setting a pace that makes it difficult to attack. You get a bit of a gap but you can't sustain it, which we saw with Quintana.
No one looked like they were having fun but I wonder if the weather made it rougher for Froome. It's hard to tell when he's suffering though as he always looks rough.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not
It's been tremendous. Yesterday was always going to be a damp squib, but today was enthralling even if it didn't amount to much in terms of time gaps.
Absolutely nothing happend but from 6km-3km though..
3km of action on the queen stage.
Stage 19 is the Queen Stage.0 -
I was engrossed from beginning to end. From Hesjedal missing the break at the beginning all the way through to the end. The makeup of the break, Astana's tactics, the split in the break, Kwiatkowski, wondering which domestique Sky would use up and when, watching all the fancied riders falling off the back of the peleton, J-Rod's attack, Fuglesang and Bardet - and that's not even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the GC group over those 3km, especially G's heroics.Absolutely nothing happend but from 6km-3km though..
3km of action on the queen stage.
When does one lose one's sense of excitement from watching this sort of racing?0 -
Looking at the photos of Froome on that climb he was seriously on the rivet...the other guys lost out badly there not hammering him more and had Porte and Thomas not been there he might have been in real difficulty.
I particularly like this one. Faces are something else:
Just missing Nibali. Amazing shot.
Yes, excellent shot, one of the few to see Quintana showing the strain.0 -
I probably have a slightly different perspective to most on here as I've only been watching cycling for the last three years. I've fallen in love with the sport and try to watch pretty much every race that Eurosport broadcast.
I've loved every minute of this Tour. The first week was epic, enthralling, edge-of-the-seat excitement. Tuesday was the same and I've remained spellbound over the last couple of days too. Perhaps I'm a few years off the levels of ennui that some of you obviously feel, but I hope not
As someone said earlier, there's the nostalgia effect - where you forget that the good stuff was preceded by a dozen pan-flat sprinters stages (I quite like a pan-flat sprint stage, actually, but more than two in a row gets a bit boring) - but part of the problem is that people looked at today's stage profile, realised it was one of those profiles that can result in the sort of racing we'd be talking about for years, and then we get a moderately succesful breakaway and a few attacks on GC that come to nothing.
It's not really ennui, it's just a case of things not living up to the wildest hopes. And that's kind of cool because if it all kicked off every time we had a stage like this then it would just become normal, and we'd long for the days when something else happened instead. There are still pleasures to be taken, and stories to be enjoyed - it's just a character-driven observational novel, rather than the sort of trashy thing with a gold-embossed title that you pick up in the airport.
There's no perfect template for a day's racing, much as some claim there is, and if you really want it then go and watch the classics - this is a Grand Tour, more than one thing happens, and more than one kind of rider can have their day. That depth and variation of narrative is what makes GTs so fascinating, even at the risk of throwing up a dull day. Glad you're enjoying it.0 -
Because it’s anaerobic power.If Valverde has that power left why the hell wasn't he putting pressure on Froome and G lower down the hill?
So what - as a supporter of his team leader he should be willing to blow himself up a few k down the hill if it might allow NanoQ to gap Froome. Note how the tour winners "spend" their team-mates (horrible phrase) to put pressure on the other riders - whilst the strongest Movistar sidekick is really riding for himself rather than for team-leader then they will struggle and the only way they will win is pure solo brilliance by NanoQ. Frankly I don't think he has quite enough - but with Valverde actually working for him then it would be a closer race
Can't agree with that - what pressure is it putting on anyone for Valverde to sprint off for 100 metres and then go out the back ? He put in some attacks and they were clawed back - he put pressure on Sky and if his attack had stuck he would have been there for Quintana to bridge across to and work with - something he couldn't do if he'd blown up.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Why are so many so sure Contador is suffering because of the Giro - there are plenty of others suffering who didn't ride the Giro. Yes it's possible but then isn't it more likely that he suffered in the heat as it it looking like Nibali also did given his apparent recovery in the cooler weather (relatively!) today.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
-
Because it’s anaerobic power.If Valverde has that power left why the hell wasn't he putting pressure on Froome and G lower down the hill?
So what - as a supporter of his team leader he should be willing to blow himself up a few k down the hill if it might allow NanoQ to gap Froome. Note how the tour winners "spend" their team-mates (horrible phrase) to put pressure on the other riders - whilst the strongest Movistar sidekick is really riding for himself rather than for team-leader then they will struggle and the only way they will win is pure solo brilliance by NanoQ. Frankly I don't think he has quite enough - but with Valverde actually working for him then it would be a closer race
Can't agree with that - what pressure is it putting on anyone for Valverde to sprint off for 100 metres and then go out the back ? He put in some attacks and they were clawed back - he put pressure on Sky and if his attack had stuck he would have been there for Quintana to bridge across to and work with - something he couldn't do if he'd blown up.
Valverde could single-handedly save a dozen babies from certain death in a burning house and he would still be criticised on this forum0 -
Because it’s anaerobic power.If Valverde has that power left why the hell wasn't he putting pressure on Froome and G lower down the hill?
So what - as a supporter of his team leader he should be willing to blow himself up a few k down the hill if it might allow NanoQ to gap Froome. Note how the tour winners "spend" their team-mates (horrible phrase) to put pressure on the other riders - whilst the strongest Movistar sidekick is really riding for himself rather than for team-leader then they will struggle and the only way they will win is pure solo brilliance by NanoQ. Frankly I don't think he has quite enough - but with Valverde actually working for him then it would be a closer race
Can't agree with that - what pressure is it putting on anyone for Valverde to sprint off for 100 metres and then go out the back ? He put in some attacks and they were clawed back - he put pressure on Sky and if his attack had stuck he would have been there for Quintana to bridge across to and work with - something he couldn't do if he'd blown up.
Valverde could single-handedly save a dozen babies from certain death in a burning house and he would still be criticised on this forum
That's because he would only be doing it for the fame.Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy0 -
I was engrossed from beginning to end. From Hesjedal missing the break at the beginning all the way through to the end. The makeup of the break, Astana's tactics, the split in the break, Kwiatkowski, wondering which domestique Sky would use up and when, watching all the fancied riders falling off the back of the peloton, J-Rod's attack, Fuglesang and Bardet - and that's not even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the GC group over those 3km, especially G's heroics.Absolutely nothing happend but from 6km-3km though..
J
3km of action on the queen stage.
When does one lose one's sense of excitement from watching this sort of racing?
Well said.
Whatever anyone else thinks, if you continue to look for those sorts of details in the racing then you will hopefully always find excitement, and more power to you for it. A few of us on here should possibly look at the racing a bit more like that.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Froome looks pretty relaxed in those photos, at one point he's trying to catch raindrops on his tongue!
Disappointing how feeble the attacks were. They've wasted their chances to attack and take time from Froome, the Alps will suit Sky more.
It's surprising how poor the tactics of the other teams are, Sky are obviously pacing themselves, riding to a certain power, you need to hit them with a repeated hard attacks, make them crack and hope that you recover better than them. Unless the rest are already riding for second.0 -
You, jane90, are a breath of fresh air.
Any chance you can come back on during other stages to rattle some cages of those pantomime dames who've forgotten, or are oblivious to, all the ingredients that continue to make the Tour the ultimate expression of speed, stamina, luck, courage, deviousness, beauty and brutality in sport?0 -
You don't necessarily. I've watched cycling since the late 1980s and still enjoy any race I watch. If you are, for instance, mesmerised by strategical positioning within the peloton midway a Milan-San Remo, get excited about the tactics behind the formation of a breakaway doomed to fail, or can see the beauty in a team time trial, you'll be alright for a little while yet.
I was engrossed from beginning to end. From Hesjedal missing the break at the beginning all the way through to the end. The makeup of the break, Astana's tactics, the split in the break, Kwiatkowski, wondering which domestique Sky would use up and when, watching all the fancied riders falling off the back of the peloton, J-Rod's attack, Fuglesang and Bardet - and that's not even mentioning all the stuff that happened in the GC group over those 3km, especially G's heroics.Absolutely nothing happend but from 6km-3km though..
3km of action on the queen stage.
When does one lose one's sense of excitement from watching this sort of racing?
Some people are just natural moaners wherever they are - don't believe they don't like pro cycling. Wouldn't be here otherwise0 -
Because it’s anaerobic power.If Valverde has that power left why the hell wasn't he putting pressure on Froome and G lower down the hill?
So what - as a supporter of his team leader he should be willing to blow himself up a few k down the hill if it might allow NanoQ to gap Froome. Note how the tour winners "spend" their team-mates (horrible phrase) to put pressure on the other riders - whilst the strongest Movistar sidekick is really riding for himself rather than for team-leader then they will struggle and the only way they will win is pure solo brilliance by NanoQ. Frankly I don't think he has quite enough - but with Valverde actually working for him then it would be a closer race
Can't agree with that - what pressure is it putting on anyone for Valverde to sprint off for 100 metres and then go out the back ? He put in some attacks and they were clawed back - he put pressure on Sky and if his attack had stuck he would have been there for Quintana to bridge across to and work with - something he couldn't do if he'd blown up.
Valverde could single-handedly save a dozen babies from certain death in a burning house and he would still be criticised on this forum
That's because he would only be doing it for the fame.
And he'd look like this while doing it and well goodness knows what would have happened after the heoric rescue...
Correlation is not causation.0 -
I don't think it's been a bad tour except for the fact the GC looks sewn up and has looked like that might be the case from week 1 when the likes of Nibali lost time when we all suspected he needed some kind of cushion coming in to the mountains and Froome looked stronger than he has for while.
With hindsight the other favourites would have been better coming to the Pyrennees and trying to keep the gap to Froome stable rather than Movistar hammering into the first decent climb and setting Froome up to destroy the field. We know that if Froome has a weakness it's later in races, it's rain, it's when races get chaotic - Tuesday saw everyone relatively fresh, hot weather, a textbook situation as far as stage racing goes. I reckon today maybe they went in thinking about not losing more time more than attacking and possibly missed an opportunity to attack on that wet descent - whether you think Froome handles descents well or not if you push on it makes it dangerous for everyone and you have to say for the likes of Contador his best chance is for Froome to crash. Sounds extreme but it's a tactic Merckx used in the past - take ridiculous risks on a descent to force the other GC men to do the same and hope they are the one that crashes or bottles it first.
The rest of this Tour is super hard - the run in to the Alps is no walk in the park and Sky might be asked to burn a lot of energy controlling the race - come the high mountains again and there will be chances to isolate Froome and if he does start to weaken then it might not be over. OK wishful thinking but I think there's more chance of the gap between Froome and the rest shrinking than growing between now and paris.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
You, jane90, are a breath of fresh air.
Any chance you can come back on during other stages to rattle some cages of those pantomime dames who've forgotten, or are oblivious to, all the ingredients that continue to make the Tour the ultimate expression of speed, stamina, luck, courage, deviousness, beauty and brutality in sport?
I second this request.Correlation is not causation.0 -
I don't think it's been a bad tour except for the fact the GC looks sewn up and has looked like that might be the case from week 1 when the likes of Nibali lost time when we all suspected he needed some kind of cushion coming in to the mountains and Froome looked stronger than he has for while.
With hindsight the other favourites would have been better coming to the Pyrennees and trying to keep the gap to Froome stable rather than Movistar hammering into the first decent climb and setting Froome up to destroy the field. We know that if Froome has a weakness it's later in races, it's rain, it's when races get chaotic - Tuesday saw everyone relatively fresh, hot weather, a textbook situation as far as stage racing goes. I reckon today maybe they went in thinking about not losing more time more than attacking and possibly missed an opportunity to attack on that wet descent - whether you think Froome handles descents well or not if you push on it makes it dangerous for everyone and you have to say for the likes of Contador his best chance is for Froome to crash. Sounds extreme but it's a tactic Merckx used in the past - take ridiculous risks on a descent to force the other GC men to do the same and hope they are the one that crashes or bottles it first.
The rest of this Tour is super hard - the run in to the Alps is no walk in the park and Sky might be asked to burn a lot of energy controlling the race - come the high mountains again and there will be chances to isolate Froome and if he does start to weaken then it might not be over. OK wishful thinking but I think there's more chance of the gap between Froome and the rest shrinking than growing between now and paris.
+1.
We saw today that the other teams will work together (apart from Nibali and Valverde who hate each other) against Froome. SDB is going to need to keep G, Porte, Konig and Poels as fresh as possible. They will be given tomorrow off I reckon.0
