Are sky clean or not?
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Salsiccia1 wrote:Sagan says hello
He wants to know why he's not mentioned in the doping chat, seeing as he's the dominant rider of the age
We need a Sagan thread ?0 -
Salsiccia1 wrote:Sagan says hello
He wants to know why he's not mentioned in the doping chat, seeing as he's the dominant rider of the age
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He's like the Usain Bolt of cycling. If he falls we might as well go back to the dandy horse.0
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fat daddy wrote:Salsiccia1 wrote:Sagan says hello
He wants to know why he's not mentioned in the doping chat, seeing as he's the dominant rider of the age
We need a Sagan thread ?
No, we bloody don't :shock:
(It was just an excuse to get a muppet picture in)It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Above The Cows wrote:And with that, now it's warmed up and the clouds have cleared I'm off up the Galibier. Toodles.
Show off
It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Much like a gambling cheat has no effect on whether I go to a casino or not, a cycling cheat has no effect on whether I ride a bike or watch a bike race. Sure it's the same old thing. You don't trust your heroes. For me I have better heroes.ddraver wrote:9 years on this forum dennis and you have never made a post different from that....
I don't know whether to be impressed or sympathetic.0 -
Better heroes? I've stopped having them since I grew up. Real life isn't about heroes, even heroes are failures, cheats or failures in some aspect of their lives. I bet Froome is an absentee dad a lot as are any pro athlete father. Athlete mothers might be a little less so.
Seriously why the heroes? They're sportsmen and entertainment for people who like that sort of thing. Skinny men in Lycra torturing themselves around France!0 -
But if they aren't your heroes, why the disappointment and hatred?Tangled Metal wrote:Better heroes? I've stopped having them since I grew up. Real life isn't about heroes, even heroes are failures, cheats or failures in some aspect of their lives. I bet Froome is an absentee dad a lot as are any pro athlete father. Athlete mothers might be a little less so.
Seriously why the heroes? They're sportsmen and entertainment for people who like that sort of thing. Skinny men in Lycra torturing themselves around France!0 -
Please no... we've had pages and pages of this already on the LA thread.0
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*weeps*0
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Where's that Rick Chasey when you need him to lock the thread?It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0
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Does the question really make you that uncomfortable?Salsiccia1 wrote:Where's that Rick Chasey when you need him to lock the thread?0 -
dennis, you admitted on the LA thread (as if it wasn't massively obvious) that you are just on here to troll because you have nothing better to do:dennisn wrote:
Does the question really make you that uncomfortable?Salsiccia1 wrote:Where's that Rick Chasey when you need him to lock the thread?
Stop pretending you're some sort of wise old philosopher asking the difficult and thought-provoking questions that nobody else has ever dared to confront. As far as I can tell you contribute literally nothing to this forum other than a lot of long-winded and extremely repetitive posts on the same tired topic, and people are understandably sick of it.dennisn wrote:Add to that the fact that I'm retired with extra time on my hands and "bingo" I'm on doping threads out of boredom.
Maybe you need to spend a bit more time watching bike racing, as you're so fond of claiming you do, and a bit less time making an arse of yourself on this forum.0 -
dennisn wrote:
Does the question really make you that uncomfortable?Salsiccia1 wrote:Where's that Rick Chasey when you need him to lock the thread?
No, it's just the utter pointlessness of this endless circle of debate and pseudo-philosophical arse gravy running on *two* interminable threads that I find uncomfortable.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Sorry if I started something all over again on another thread. Heroes, nothing but heroes. Was a lyric by which band and from which song?
Guess the lyric thread hijack to run alongside the more important Muppet strain. Quoting lyrics related in some way to this thread. People have to guess the band and song.0 -
To my great pleasure Sausage has introduced the phrase ar@e gravy to this thread. I intend using this phrase as much as possible this weekend0
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Richmond Racer 2 wrote:To my great pleasure Sausage has introduced the phrase ar@e gravy to this thread. I intend using this phrase as much as possible this weekend
Would madame like some BBQ wings with the @rse gravy?
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It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:To my great pleasure Sausage has introduced the phrase ar@e gravy to this thread. I intend using this phrase as much as possible this weekend
Would madame care for some ar5e gravy with her meatballs?
Correlation is not causation.0 -
Just read he first few pages of the Lance thread (Lord knows why) and it seems pretty clear that by the equivalent point in USPS and Lance's career there was a lot more in terms of substantive evidence (investigations, ex team members speaking out etc etc).
With Sky there's none of that, just a load of speculation on the Internet. Sky must be much better at keeping things quiet 0 -
bobmcstuff wrote:Just read he first few pages of the Lance thread (Lord knows why) and it seems pretty clear that by the equivalent point in USPS and Lance's career there was a lot more in terms of substantive evidence (investigations, ex team members speaking out etc etc).
With Sky there's none of that, just a load of speculation on the Internet. Sky must be much better at keeping things quiet
The comparison with LA/USPostal is laughable, not just for missing the fact that there was real, solid evidence against LA but in being entirely context free.
LA's first TdF win in '99 was on the back of the Festina affair the year before. Let's just remind ourselves about that, as what was striking wasn't just the amount of riders caught up in it, nor that teams were actively organising doping, but the attitude of the peloton at the time.
Festina were thrown out. All four Spanish teams and one Italian team withdrew from the race, as did TVM shortly after. The peloton staged protests on not one but two stages. ONCE and Banesto supported a Samaranch statement calling for doping to be legalized. Only 96 riders finished the tour. Of the final top ten, six (including the entire podium) tested positive retrospectively. Of 38 riders that were tested retrospectively, 33 were positive (2 of the 5 negative tested riders have since confessed anyway).
When we talk about a culture of doping, that's what it looks like. They really were "all at it" (aside from a handful), and they believed it was their right. Police raids were seen as harassment of riders that were just doing their job professionally, as the sponsors required. Anyone that objected to doping didn't understand cycling. The only reasons any of it was secret or shady was because a) some of it was illegal and b) because nobody needs to know how the sausage is made in case it spoils their appetite.
So even when we had purely performance based suspicion (as there was for LA, before we got the testimonies) it was in a context where we knew cycling was rotten to the core, we knew there was no test for EPO, we knew it gave an absolutely huge advantage, and we knew it was rife in the peloton.
Anyone that thinks cycling hasn't changed at all has a very poor memory.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
No tA Doctor wrote:bobmcstuff wrote:Just read he first few pages of the Lance thread (Lord knows why) and it seems pretty clear that by the equivalent point in USPS and Lance's career there was a lot more in terms of substantive evidence (investigations, ex team members speaking out etc etc).
With Sky there's none of that, just a load of speculation on the Internet. Sky must be much better at keeping things quiet
The comparison with LA/USPostal is laughable, not just for missing the fact that there was real, solid evidence against LA but in being entirely context free.
LA's first TdF win in '99 was on the back of the Festina affair the year before. Let's just remind ourselves about that, as what was striking wasn't just the amount of riders caught up in it, nor that teams were actively organising doping, but the attitude of the peloton at the time.
Festina were thrown out. All four Spanish teams and one Italian team withdrew from the race, as did TVM shortly after. The peloton staged protests on not one but two stages. ONCE and Banesto supported a Samaranch statement calling for doping to be legalized. Only 96 riders finished the tour. Of the final top ten, six (including the entire podium) tested positive retrospectively. Of 38 riders that were tested retrospectively, 33 were positive (2 of the 5 negative tested riders have since confessed anyway).
When we talk about a culture of doping, that's what it looks like. They really were "all at it" (aside from a handful), and they believed it was their right. Police raids were seen as harassment of riders that were just doing their job professionally, as the sponsors required. Anyone that objected to doping didn't understand cycling. The only reasons any of it was secret or shady was because a) some of it was illegal and b) because nobody needs to know how the sausage is made in case it spoils their appetite.
So even when we had purely performance based suspicion (as there was for LA, before we got the testimonies) it was in a context where we knew cycling was rotten to the core, we knew there was no test for EPO, we knew it gave an absolutely huge advantage, and we knew it was rife in the peloton.
Anyone that thinks cycling hasn't changed at all has a very poor memory.
Great post. As I said in the Lizzie thread, saying 'we've seen it all before with Lance etc' is a complete crock of shite. It isn't the same anymore no matter what the tinfoil hat merchants in the Clinic and and on Twitter say.
Theres also the fact that with camera phones, videos, social media etc at everyone's fingertips these days there's no way a team like Sky wouldn't have been caught long ago if they were up to anything. Imagine a team these days doing blood bags on the team bus and getting away with it - not happening is it!
What's sad is that if an athlete misses a test, or has a TUE, those tinfoil wearers are straight on Twitter deriding them as dopers, and mud sticks. They're obsessed, posting tens of thousands of times on doping forums, and they can never be wrong because anybody busted just 'proves they're right', and anyone not busted is just getting away with it....like I said, sad.0 -
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Digger and co. are very excited by Wiggo's inhaler, ignoring the possibility that if he's visibly using it in the track centre it's probably been prescribed (his asthma is well documented including packing the 2013 Giro); and that if he weren't asthmatic using an inhaler would have no effect on his performance, which is why WADA took inhalers off the banned list.0
