Are sky clean or not?
Comments
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That first week alone was pretty intense
Worst tour ever. Only if you haven't been watching.
I'm quite hard to please and this has been a pretty good Tour. Obviously some people are disappointed that there wasn't this epic 4 way battle that they wanted but that was never going to happen. And it's the Tour, so it's always more conservative as coming 2nd or 4'th actually matters.
Best first week I can remember though.
Agreed0 -
I wonder how many hundreds of people, maybe thousands, have been through the BC / WCPP and Sky system? Maybe someone should attempt to draw up one of those Peter Frame style rock familiy trees you used to get in Sounds. Even I know someone who was on the WCPP and fell out with Ellingworth; yet not one rider, mechanic, soigneur, coach, Dr or administrator has spoken out about about any doping conspiracy. If there is anything going on, not only is Brailsford a criminal mastermind, he's better than the Mafia or any government at keeping a lid on things.0
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In the meantime, worst tour ever?
Hehe, this happens every year - I don't think so, I've enjoyed it so far. .
I find it terrible... really a story with no plot and no climax
Plot's been pretty clear - well drilled Sky team and on form Froome consistently controlling the race and the other main contenders not in as good form as was originally hoped.
The climax was quite premature to be fair
To be fair, who are the villians in this race? Contador, Quintana and Nibali who've been unable to put together a single, decent attack between them. Froome has had to work no harder than any of them to negate whatever they've tried. Nibbo and Contador are simply spinning the pedals.
Wiggo says in his book that race days are frequently easier than training days and I think this race fits the bill.
The sad thing is that under performing teams and riders have tried to derail Sky by innuendo rather than by being stronger on the bike.
I didn't say it was the best plot ever written! Just that there clearly is one.
I guess the French media would be the villain, or Brailsford (for obvious reasons).0 -
The clown PE teacher Vayer, that the likes of Kimmage and Bike Pure think is the man to judge Sky's power outputs, but is called incompetent and insuling by a Professor at ISSUL, has posted a classic on twitter.
It's the Strava KOM for Alpe d'Huez
That's a MTB rider (35 at the time) with a doping ban from 2003, posting a time bettered only by Pantani, Armstrong & Landis. If Froome gets within a minute of that it will be 'Pas Normal'.
He's not suspicious though. He's celebrating it. Because that rider's coach is Antoine Vayer.Twitter: @RichN950 -
The clown PE teacher Vayer, that the likes of Kimmage and Bike Pure think is the man to judge Sky's power outputs, but is called incompetent and insuling by a Professor at ISSUL, has posted a classic on twitter.
It's the Strava KOM for Alpe d'Huez
That's a MTB rider (35 at the time) with a doping ban from 2003, posting a time bettered only by Pantani, Armstrong & Landis. If Froome gets within a minute of that it will be 'Pas Normal'.
He's not suspicious though. He's celebrating it. Because that rider's coach is Antoine Vayer.
He really is a smug, self-satisfied prick.Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
Bet team Sky are all eating Quorn0
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Interesting article here in Lefigaro from a psychopathological perspective....
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fsport24.lefigaro.fr%2Fle-scan-sport%2Fbuzz%2F2015%2F07%2F22%2F27002-20150722ARTFIG00031-un-ancien-medecin-du-tour-froome-n-est-pas-dope.php0 -
That article confirms what 99.9% of us already know - Froome is clean.'Performance analysis and Froome not being clean was a media driven story. I haven’t heard one guy in the peloton say a negative thing about Froome, and I haven’t heard a single person in the peloton suggest Froome isn’t clean.' TSP0
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This Tour is certainly not the worst. As Iain has said, it had an excellent first week. Since then, it's been pretty much a standard TDF.Clean or not time will tell...
In the meantime, worst tour ever?
You are joking, right?FF said the Giro was better? Why would he say that? Oh....Contador won it. My case rests.
Frankly, that's not much of a case.
Remove all prejudice, including yours and it's very hard to argue that the final week of the Giro wasn't totally enthralling.
One look at the stage threads should tell you that.
Both the Giro and Tour have the same finishing scenario: a team holding the two bottom podium spots trying to knock the guy off his top perch.
It remains to be seen whether the Tour stages can emulate the explosive action witnessed at the Giro.
It's possible, but it is a hard act to follow."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
In the meantime, worst tour ever?
Not one of the best, but few are.
This TdF has confounded not by being poor in absolute terms, but by being less good than I thought it might be.
Sky have do the LVC, USPS, Discovery thing by covering all the bases rather too well, but that is hardly a novelty in this game, be it GT, classic or some shorter stage race.
The downer for me was the non-emergence (so far) of the battle between Froome, Quintana and Contador. I thought Nibali was out of the running before it started, but I quite fancied the other three and their teams to get at it, with Van Garderen an outside push for the podium and some involvement of the French.
I didn't think Sky would handle the first week as well as they did and saw Froome struggling through it and then fighting back.
I do not bet, but my pretend money was with my pretend bookie on Contador for yellow in Paris after a hard and close Tour. Maybe ahaad of Quintana, maybe ahead of Froome.
I also thought there would be more big crashes than there were. I know we're not there yet, but I had a bad feeling about crashes on this tour.
But one of the worst ever? NO. Not a bit of it. The Tour de France is quite like an editorial in the Telegraph. You know what what you're going to get and are not surprised when you get it. But you read it nonetheless either for the comfort of reassuring concurrence or the maddening fury of mute disagreement.
Viewed as a series of one-day races, this has not been a poor TdF at all.
Few issues with positive tests also... The team doctors are right on top of their game.0 -
In the meantime, worst tour ever?
Hehe, this happens every year - I don't think so, I've enjoyed it so far. .
I find it terrible... really a story with no plot and no climax
i'm hoping the next couple of days help, but can only see one outcome. its not been 2011 (which for me was still the best tour of recent years). one thing that has to be said is the courses especially the first week, have been excellent.0 -
all this nonsense, it's driven by envy, bitterness,jealousy and anti British chauvenism.
Are movistar clean? They are leading the team classification.
Is Astana clean, is Valverde clean now, Is Bert clean now.
where is their interrogation?0 -
I've read through this entire thread in the past couple of days, dipping in and out as real life permits. Rather than comment on the argument itself (pointless, since it's impossible to prove a negative anyway) I'd like to state here that the one thing that definitively CAN be proved is that the whole ketones thing is utter, utter b0llocks.
'Raspberry Ketones' have been around in the fad diet industry since the sixties - with very little publicity up until the last few years. Since a couple of studies have been published linking ketones with weight loss in rodents, the industry has jumped all over it and started pimping them out as This Year's Miracle Weight Loss Supplement
However, as with all 'miracle' supplements, it's all nonsense. The two studies were inherently flawed in their methodology, used statistical manipulation to sensationalise specific asepcts of the results and (here's the killer) WERE CONDUCTED ON RODENTS. Not a single study has ever been undertaken with human subjects (mainly because the cost of producing raspberry ketones is prohibitively expensive) and is unlikely to even receive sanctioning because of the risks involved in repeating the test protocols on humans (it would require feeding test subjects an extremely unhealthy and fattening diet for months)
I have heard the rumours about the peloton using ketones - if they're true, then David Holdsworth et. al are making an absolute fortune from something that is unproven, based on spurious and biased test results, and quite possibly dangerous (consuming 100 times the recommended 'suspected safe' dose of anything in one go isn't particularly clever)Fat chopper. Some racing. Some testing. Some crashing.
Specialising in Git Daaahns and Cafs. Norvern Munkey/Transplanted Laaandoner.0 -
It's worth finding a couple of hours to listen to the Cycling Podcast Friends Dopers Special. The interviews with Cookson and Vayer were interesting. Cookson did his Monster's Inc tester's under the bed act, and talked of possible ethics committee follow-up to some redacted CIRC stories. Vayer's main sources appear to be rider's he's looked at.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/special-no-7-the-pirc-podcast-independent-reform-commission...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
Is skylimit, who started this thread, not due to have his temporary ban lifted about now?Giant Trance X 2010
Specialized Tricross Sport
My Dad's old racer
Trek Marlin 29er 20120 -
It's worth finding a couple of hours to listen to the Cycling Podcast Friends Dopers Special. The interviews with Cookson and Vayer were interesting. Cookson did his Monster's Inc tester's under the bed act, and talked of possible ethics committee follow-up to some redacted CIRC stories. Vayer's main sources appear to be rider's he's looked at.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/special-no-7-the-pirc-podcast-independent-reform-commission
Vayer is a chump. He tweeted figures from Pra-Loup yesterday at 6.65W/Kg for Quintana and 6.45W/Kg for Froome.
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/624105288073904128
Does he have a clue what he is talking about? If so can someone explain these 'official' figures to me as currently they make no sense.0 -
He was banned for a couple of weeks on the 15th:the article don wrote:Is skylimit, who started this thread, not due to have his temporary ban lifted about now?
As Rick says, he had no interest in engaging in any actual discussion with anyone and I don't think we should be missing himOK he's gone for a couple weeks.
I can give him the benefit of the doubt if he thinks what he thinks, but leaving posts that get a rise and not responding but moving onto more posts that get a rise is classic troll behaviour.
Can come back when the Tour is finished.
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He was banned for a couple of weeks on the 15th:the article don wrote:Is skylimit, who started this thread, not due to have his temporary ban lifted about now?
As Rick says, he had no interest in engaging in any actual discussion with anyone and I don't think we should be missing himOK he's gone for a couple weeks.
I can give him the benefit of the doubt if he thinks what he thinks, but leaving posts that get a rise and not responding but moving onto more posts that get a rise is classic troll behaviour.
Can come back when the Tour is finished.
He (skylimit aka The Sceptic) is currently annoying everyone on Velorooms with his 'knowledge' under the name Dave Bruyneel. I wonder whether they have let him back into the other place yet.0 -
If anybody is in any real doubt as to just how objective Monsieur Vayer isn't, look no further than here, when a French rider breaks a climbing record set by a known doper:
https://www.twitter.com/festinaboy/status/611233845858435072"
Suddenly, instead of a precise number, we get, wait for it, a w/kg calculation with a 0.3 watt error factor allowance.
Even allowing for the fact he's used a slower time than posted on "Climbing Records", by my rudimentary calculations (and others) his mean figure is also 0.3w/kg on the low side.
To cap it off, he now justifies this by proclaiming it is the result of a tailwind.
Not attempting to cast any doubt on Pinot, just highlighting how this guy operates."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
They have two washing machines so I assume they can put the kit through when they want. I understand black kit would be easier not showing the dirt rather than say katusha, AG2R, FDJ and Orica containing white. It still doesn't justify allegations of a lack of hygiene!0 -
It's worth finding a couple of hours to listen to the Cycling Podcast Friends Dopers Special. The interviews with Cookson and Vayer were interesting. Cookson did his Monster's Inc tester's under the bed act, and talked of possible ethics committee follow-up to some redacted CIRC stories. Vayer's main sources appear to be rider's he's looked at.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/special-no-7-the-pirc-podcast-independent-reform-commission
Vayer is a chump. He tweeted figures from Pra-Loup yesterday at 6.65W/Kg for Quintana and 6.45W/Kg for Froome.
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/624105288073904128
Does he have a clue what he is talking about? If so can someone explain these 'official' figures to me as currently they make no sense.
Those numbers are so obviously wrong it's funny. For a start, shouldn't two riders who do the same climb in the same time have the same W/kg? I thought that was the central premise that inferring doping from performance was based upon. And has anyone told Vayer that Froome and Quintana climbed Pra Loup slower than TJVG did in the Dauphine?0 -
It's worth finding a couple of hours to listen to the Cycling Podcast Friends Dopers Special. The interviews with Cookson and Vayer were interesting. Cookson did his Monster's Inc tester's under the bed act, and talked of possible ethics committee follow-up to some redacted CIRC stories. Vayer's main sources appear to be rider's he's looked at.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/special-no-7-the-pirc-podcast-independent-reform-commission
Vayer is a chump. He tweeted figures from Pra-Loup yesterday at 6.65W/Kg for Quintana and 6.45W/Kg for Froome.
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/624105288073904128
Does he have a clue what he is talking about? If so can someone explain these 'official' figures to me as currently they make no sense.
He knows what he's talking about, but the 2 variables used in his equations are pure guesswork, presumably picked to best fit the outcome he wants0 -
My take is it was an OK first week and has been poor since - it may not be the worst tour ever but it's certainly well below average.
I agree... worst Tour ever maybe the days of Indurain? But even there, there was Chiappucci and then Pantani to entertain the crowds... if Purito "Pasthisbest" Rodriguez wins Plateau de Beille, it means that nobody is contesting the stage...
And the Gareth Thomas 4th... credit to the guy, but I mean... really... is that where we are? A domestique to the yellow jersey with average climbing record being a contender for the podium?left the forum March 20230 -
He was banned for a couple of weeks on the 15th:the article don wrote:Is skylimit, who started this thread, not due to have his temporary ban lifted about now?
As Rick says, he had no interest in engaging in any actual discussion with anyone and I don't think we should be missing himOK he's gone for a couple weeks.
I can give him the benefit of the doubt if he thinks what he thinks, but leaving posts that get a rise and not responding but moving onto more posts that get a rise is classic troll behaviour.
Can come back when the Tour is finished.
I'm not missing him, I was just amused that this had ballooned into a 50 page thread while hes sits on the sidelines.Giant Trance X 2010
Specialized Tricross Sport
My Dad's old racer
Trek Marlin 29er 20120 -
A quick guide to Welsh sport:My take is it was an OK first week and has been poor since - it may not be the worst tour ever but it's certainly well below average.
I agree... worst Tour ever maybe the days of Indurain? But even there, there was Chiappucci and then Pantani to entertain the crowds... if Purito "Pasthisbest" Rodriguez wins Plateau de Beille, it means that nobody is contesting the stage...
And the Gareth Thomas 4th... credit to the guy, but I mean... really... is that where we are? A domestique to the yellow jersey with average climbing record being a contender for the podium?
Geraint Thomas
Gareth Thomas
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Geraint Thomas
Gareth Thomas
Napoleon, don't be jealous that I've been chatting online with babes all day. Besides, we both know that I'm training to be a cage fighter.0 -
It's worth finding a couple of hours to listen to the Cycling Podcast Friends Dopers Special. The interviews with Cookson and Vayer were interesting. Cookson did his Monster's Inc tester's under the bed act, and talked of possible ethics committee follow-up to some redacted CIRC stories. Vayer's main sources appear to be rider's he's looked at.
http://thecyclingpodcast.com/podcast/special-no-7-the-pirc-podcast-independent-reform-commission
Vayer is a chump. He tweeted figures from Pra-Loup yesterday at 6.65W/Kg for Quintana and 6.45W/Kg for Froome.
https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/624105288073904128
Does he have a clue what he is talking about? If so can someone explain these 'official' figures to me as currently they make no sense.
Those numbers are so obviously wrong it's funny. For a start, shouldn't two riders who do the same climb in the same time have the same W/kg? I thought that was the central premise that inferring doping from performance was based upon. And has anyone told Vayer that Froome and Quintana climbed Pra Loup slower than TJVG did in the Dauphine?
If the riders are the same weight, then yes.0 -
If the riders are the same weight, then yes.
It's W/kg - weight is already taken into account.0 -
If this thread goes on much longer we will have to update the BR army:
Contador is the Greatest0 -
They have two washing machines so I assume they can put the kit through when they want. I understand black kit would be easier not showing the dirt rather than say katusha, AG2R, FDJ and Orica containing white. It still doesn't justify allegations of a lack of hygiene!
one of those is a tumble dryer
so not only are they clean, their jerseys are soft and bouncy too0
