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Froome's Data Hacked

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  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    Why so secret anyway that they have to keep it under wraps? Plenty of guys riding the tour post their rides on Strava with all the data there for anyone to see.
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    This appears to be a great opportunity to compare real data against estimates from the power models.
    They won't be far off.

    :wink:
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • zammmmozammmmo Posts: 315
    Nothing to see here...move along.
  • RonBRonB Posts: 3,984
    Regarding the accuracy of indirect estimation of power output from uphill performance in cycling ...

    "The mean estimated values are close to the power-output values measured by power meters, but the random error is between ±6% and ±10%. Moreover, at the power outputs (>400 W) produced by professional riders, this error is likely to be higher. This observation calls into question the validity of releasing individual values without reporting the range of random errors."

    Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24306321

    With that sort of margin I would like to point out that Benoît Vaugrenard should be wearing the maillot jaune.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    @friebos 4m4 minutes ago
    Comprehensive discussion about Froome & hacking on @cycling_podcast tonight, after he's dropped everyone and made it all worse.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614
    edited July 2015
    double post.
  • RonBRonB Posts: 3,984
    @friebos 4m4 minutes ago
    Comprehensive discussion about Froome & hacking on @cycling_podcast tonight, after he's dropped everyone and made it all worse.

    Judging by the PTP this is what the majority of folks are expecting to happen anyway.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    This is supposedly the data from his attack: https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

    Trustworthy or not?

    Doesn't seem to be anything crazy looking at those numbers. Apart from the random sudden jump to 1000W.
    The jump to 1000w was a jump from about 600w to 1000w and back again in about a quarter of a second. It looked like a rogue data point.

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.
  • markhewitt1978markhewitt1978 Posts: 7,614

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.

    Sky uses stages so a motor in his frame or BB would no doubt see a reduction in power output to the crank ;)
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    If these guys want a point of comparison, the lab at SRM's HQ has Ullrich and Armstrong's HR/Power/Cadence for Alpe D'Huez in 2003 on the wall! It's right there!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.

    Sky uses stages so a motor in his frame or BB would no doubt see a reduction in power output to the crank ;)

    Zing!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.

    Sky uses stages so a motor in his frame or BB would no doubt see a reduction in power output to the crank ;)

    Zing!

    I thought about making a similar gag, but Sky were on SRM in 2013.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.

    Sky uses stages so a motor in his frame or BB would no doubt see a reduction in power output to the crank ;)

    Zing!

    I thought about making a similar gag, but Sky were on SRM in 2013.

    Booooo!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154
    I know it's only 10am but there seems remarkable little genuine media interest in this save the telegraph article. I'd have though CN would be orgasmic with delight about this but there's nothing
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    This is supposedly the data from his attack: https://twitter.com/festinaboy/status/618171008038608901

    Trustworthy or not?

    Doesn't seem to be anything crazy looking at those numbers. Apart from the random sudden jump to 1000W.
    The jump to 1000w was a jump from about 600w to 1000w and back again in about a quarter of a second. It looked like a rogue data point.

    Rubbish. It's blatant evidence of a motor in his frame.

    That battery didn't last long then...
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154
    guardian wrote:
    The team was under surveillance on Sunday night by photographers hoping to catch Froome going to sleep in Brailsford’s motorhome in Pau.

    What is wrong with people?? :shock:
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    I saw it, and asked a few questions on twitter of the experts, as Rick said, it's actually as if none of them have ridden a bike, half of them were still screaming murder because his max HR wasn't 220-age - utter clowns.

    Ross Tucker seems to be hell bent on getting sued, moronic IMO -
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    guardian wrote:
    The team was under surveillance on Sunday night by photographers hoping to catch Froome going to sleep in Brailsford’s motorhome in Pau.

    What is wrong with people?? :shock:

    Oh how things have changed since Festina. Not the police raids and journos rifling through rubbish bins any more, just a few hacks checking where the dog is sleeping and how many cups of Ovaltine he gets through.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154
    FYI on oval rings skewing power data - http://bikeblather.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/whats-up-with-those-funky-rings.html?showComment=1360447685250&m=1

    tldr? the numbers are small (4-5%) but that's the area that Vayer is playing in so therefore significant. It's also worth pointing out that this doesnt affect power to the road but is a bad assumption in the power calculation which is based on normal rings
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    Breathless, respected sports scientist David Icke brings his unique objective transparency to the table:
    The power output data is really interesting though - back then, we estimated the power on that climb to be 389W (or 388W using Dr Ferrari's method), and I can assure you, having seen the raw file with second-by-second data (it's doing the rounds), that the estimate is well, very exact. I'm hesitant to post exact figures because Sky's legal team had a person's entire account removed, even though this data is all on the internet already.

    And more idle speculation about Froome's motor.
    Jonathan ‏@Vaughters
    @alexroseinnes low max heart rate means big left ventricle. Big pump volume and lower frequency = greater efficiency.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    This was Tucker in 2013, using Froome's time, not power estimate, on Ventoux to compare the performance to that of known dopers. He's been a shameless shill for the doperati for years.
    "When he won the stages of the Ax 3 Domaines and Mont Ventoux he was performing at a level that was similar to those athletes that are known to have doped in the past.

    "That means there's been even more questioning around those performances, because people are looking at this person and saying, 'Well if he's not doping then how is he at that same level?'
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • disgruntledgoatdisgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    This was Tucker in 2013, using Froome's time, not power estimate, on Ventoux to compare the performance to that of known dopers. He's been a shameless shill for the doperati for years.
    "When he won the stages of the Ax 3 Domaines and Mont Ventoux he was performing at a level that was similar to those athletes that are known to have doped in the past.

    "That means there's been even more questioning around those performances, because people are looking at this person and saying, 'Well if he's not doping then how is he at that same level?'

    I always thought I'd like to do a degree in sports science or exercise physiology and maybe become a coach. Now I see there's no need and I can just spout any old nonsense on the internetz.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    I always thought I'd like to do a degree in sports science or exercise physiology and maybe become a coach. Now I see there's no need and I can just spout any old nonsense on the internetz.

    For two years they've been screaming 'mutant', 'miraculous transformation', 'limits of human performance' over 5.7 w/kg. Incredible.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,154
    I broke my rule and went and had a look in the clinic - even they can't make the numbers show doping. In fact the 388W average (5.88W/kg) for the climb is, disappointingly for them, a long way below suspicion.

    ....so of course he has a motor now...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • TurfleTurfle Posts: 3,762
    Ross Tucker is the worst of the lot. He sits on twitter taking cheap potshots almost exclusively at Sky, retweeting inflammatory nonsense, getting people all riled up, and then he'll write 3 paragraphs about the dangers of pre-judging, and how context is important, and how he just wants more openness and dialogue. He's a complete hypocrite. A troll hiding behind a sheen of respectability.

    His whining that he can't post the data because Sky had the audacity to have it taken down is mindblowing in its arrogance.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    Yes agree.

    And the only thing he relies on is getting the mass backing of morons on twitter who have no idea about cycling, let alone powermeters and the rest.
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • No_Ta_DoctorNo_Ta_Doctor Posts: 10,105
    Ross Tucker is the worst of the lot. He sits on twitter taking cheap potshots almost exclusively at Sky, retweeting inflammatory nonsense, getting people all riled up, and then he'll write 3 paragraphs about the dangers of pre-judging, and how context is important, and how he just wants more openness and dialogue. He's a complete hypocrite. A troll hiding behind a sheen of respectability.

    His whining that he can't post the data because Sky had the audacity to have it taken down is mindblowing in its arrogance.

    I've had a couple of run-ins with him over the years (including last night, before the stolen data story broke). He wants transparency, but collaborates with the anonymous Ammitaoiaoapaparaalallity bloke (it's just Finnish for Pro Cycling), and "understands" why Vayer won't reveal his source of the stolen data, he wants the data and believes he's entitled to it, despite it being stolen. He talks about avoiding "pixelation" and then focusses in on a minute or two of effort. And he tweets snarky cycnical comments.

    Judge a man by the company he keeps: he's twitter buddies with Digger Forum and Spitinthesoup, two of the most tinfoilhatted trolls out there.

    I had a fair amount of time for him a few years ago, now everything he does is the exact opposite of what he preaches. A self-entitled hypocrite.
    “Road racing was over and the UCI had banned my riding positions on the track, so it was like ‘Jings, crivvens, help ma Boab, what do I do now? I know, I’ll go away and be depressed for 10 years’.”

    @DrHeadgear

    The Vikings are coming!
  • CrampeurCrampeur Posts: 1,065
    Shamelessly nicked from the clinic, but this data from the 2011 Vuelta TT on stage 10 shows similar things. Max HR is 169bpm. It must be something specific to Froome's physiology.

    http://home.trainingpeaks.com/athlete/workout/Z3JDD63H2UVGP77YSXNITPULAE
  • stifflersmomstifflersmom Posts: 177
    . He sits on twitter taking cheap potshots almost exclusively at Sky, retweeting inflammatory nonsense, getting people all riled up, and then he'll write 3 paragraphs about the dangers of pre-judging, and how context is important, and how he just wants more openness and dialogue. He's a complete hypocrite. A troll hiding behind a sheen of respectability.

    Subsitute bikeradar for twitter and this sounds like Frenchfighter :)
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    Ideal opportunity for any new learned members to explain why Ventoux is evidence of Froome being on the same level as known dopers.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
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