Paolini done for cocaine

dinyull

Is it a personal problem though?

At the time of being busted (and further down this thread) Matt Rendell claimed that coke could be used as a masking agent.

mr_poll

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

18 month ban.

Very harsh, considering Boonen was positive for cocaine and got nothing!

I thought we wanted stiffer sanctions than in the bad old days?

Stiffer sanctions for actual dopers, not people with personal issues.

totally... not fair at all, even more so to a 39 years old rider, who doesn't have much left in the tank.

I think the rules on doping have too many shades of grey. Cocaine is either doping, then he gets 2 years or it's not, then he walks away... it's time they make up their mind about it... it's not helping

This ... if a substance is on a banned list then it is on the list. If he has some issues then he and the team should withdraw him and let him get help. If a pilot was an alcoholic they wouldnt be allowed to be in charge of a plane whilst they went for help. Not saying he doesnt have an issue but I think cocaine use has been linked to weight loss (IIRC jockeys have been busted for it, because of this reason) if it was being abused by other riders to help with this and then they play the "I've got an issue" card and get let off then it makes a mockery of the process.

RichN95.

ugo.santalucia wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

18 month ban.

Very harsh, considering Boonen was positive for cocaine and got nothing!

I thought we wanted stiffer sanctions than in the bad old days?

Stiffer sanctions for actual dopers, not people with personal issues.

totally... not fair at all, even more so to a 39 years old rider, who doesn't have much left in the tank.

I think the rules on doping have too many shades of grey. Cocaine is either doping, then he gets 2 years or it's not, then he walks away... it's time they make up their mind about it... it's not helping

I think it still has to be banned with a punishment to deter people from trying it as a PED - which some will do. It is illegal after all. But 'time served' (nine months) is appropriate if the person has made an effort to get help.

RichN95.

Dinyull wrote:

Is it a personal problem though?

At the time of being busted (and further down this thread) Matt Rendell claimed that coke could be used as a masking agent.

A masking agent that is one of the easiest drugs to detect - and with a long detection window. Not buying that.

rick_chasey

Boonen got caught out of competition.

Paulini didn't.

dinyull

Is it easy to detect? I was under the impression that it had a small "glow" period.

I know it's quite popular with other sport starts, football in particularly, although their drug testing is sketch at best. I actually know a lad who developed a habit from the dressing room of a premier league club.

RichN95.

Dinyull wrote:

Is it easy to detect? I was under the impression that it had a small "glow" period.

I know it's quite popular with other sport starts, football in particularly, although their drug testing is sketch at best. I actually know a lad who developed a habit from the dressing room of a premier league club.

3 days urine, up to 10 days blood.

dinyull

Dinyull wrote:

@mrendell Jul 10
Cocaine does not give AAFs OOC, and is used as a masking agent, apparently.

OOC - out of competition.

AAF - adverse analytical finding.

Here's his tweet again, although as Rick says this was in competition.

The_Boy

Dinyull wrote:

Is it easy to detect? I was under the impression that it had a small "glow" period.

As a recreational drug it has a very low glow time. If you're talking about sports testing though, it's quite a while - 2-4 days in piss, iirc.

dinyull

Fair enough. Doesn't make sense to me either, using a banned substance to mask something else but then I'm no expert.

The_Boy

Dinyull wrote:

Fair enough. Doesn't make sense to me either, using a banned substance to mask something else but then I'm no expert.

The logic, I imagine, would be to claim that it was for recreational use/the result of addiction and nothing to do with doping, and the testee had since sought help for his personal troubles and a lengthy ban wouldn't be appropriate, your honour.

That assumes that it actually works as a masking agent though.

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

But 'time served' (nine months) is appropriate

Just to come back to this, and in am ore general sense. If someone has been sitting out of racing, then I think bans should reflect this. Would have avoided the Contador farce too.

trek_dan

Benzodiazepeme addiction is a serious affliction and not the sort of thing you can just go cold turkey on. Sounds like he was suffering some pretty serious mental health issues following the death of his brother if he's been abusing sleeping pills on and off for 10 years. I believe his statement and hope he makes a full recovery. Nobody is stupid enough to use cocaine as a masking agent, I don't believe that for a second, sounds like he was pretty desperate if he's taking enough toot for a 2 week training camp and doing it solo in his room.

bobmcstuff

Dinyull wrote:

Is it a personal problem though?

At the time of being busted (and further down this thread) Matt Rendell claimed that coke could be used as a masking agent.

As Dan says above I thought he was taking it to try and counter an addiction to sleeping pills, so I don't think it's necessarily recreational or performance enhancing AIUI. Sounds like a personal problem and the guy needs rehab more than anything.

dish_dash

My man now officially retired. Some quality quotes in GdS via CN

“I trained hard, I was back on form but there was no way back, Paolini told Gazzetta dello Sport on Wednesday.

“At Astana, Vinokourov told me that because of my ban he could not hire me. Coming from him that made me laugh… I would’ve liked to race with Bahrain-Merida, but the Arabian culture doesn’t accept the minimum error when it comes to alcohol and drugs.

“Despite everything I set myself a deadline of finding something by Christmas. But nothing came together. I’m bitter about it. I know that I hurt cycling, but before that, I’d given so much too. The Italian national coach Cassani called me a few times but the Italian Federation didn’t get in touch, even to call me an idiot.”

yorkshireraw

dish_dash wrote:

My man now officially retired. Some quality quotes in GdS via CN

“I trained hard, I was back on form but there was no way back, Paolini told Gazzetta dello Sport on Wednesday.

“At Astana, Vinokourov told me that because of my ban he could not hire me. Coming from him that made me laugh… I would’ve liked to race with Bahrain-Merida, but the Arabian culture doesn’t accept the minimum error when it comes to alcohol and drugs.

“Despite everything I set myself a deadline of finding something by Christmas. But nothing came together. I’m bitter about it. I know that I hurt cycling, but before that, I’d given so much too. The Italian national coach Cassani called me a few times but the Italian Federation didn’t get in touch, even to call me an idiot.”

Vino doesn't want riders who blow their €€€ on Coke, he wants committed, hardcore transfusion & EPO users who send their €€€ to Ferrari via bank transfers and spend it buying races.

Paolini - Amateur.

salsiccia1

He's about 40 now, isn't he? A 40-year-old rider with a ban for cocaine and coming off a pain-killer addiction; who wouldn't want to employ him? :roll:

Don't get me wrong, he was a very good rider and he might well be sorted out now but that's a pretty tough sell.

rick_chasey

Salsiccia1 wrote:

He's about 40 now, isn't he? A 40-year-old rider with a ban for cocaine and coming off a pain-killer addiction; who wouldn't want to employ him? :roll:

Don't get me wrong, he was a very good rider and he might well be sorted out now but that's a pretty tough sell.

He did win an epic G-W in his most recent season.

He can read a race better than most too.

andyp

He'd be perfect as a road captain for Sky's classics team.


<walks away whistling....>

Richmond Racer 2

andyp wrote:

He'd be perfect as a road captain for Sky's classics team.


<walks away whistling....>

He blew his chances


#sorrynotsorry

DeVlaeminck

Salsiccia1 wrote:

He's about 40 now, isn't he? A 40-year-old rider with a ban for cocaine and coming off a pain-killer addiction; who wouldn't want to employ him? :roll:

Don't get me wrong, he was a very good rider and he might well be sorted out now but that's a pretty tough sell.

I don't know on purely sporting grounds he must have been worth a punt given how well he was going pre-ban especially if that was achieved with him having problems which are now behind him. Then with his experience and race craft it would be a great signing.

On commercial grounds I think people are mature enough to forgive him or even warm to the story of a guy who has overcome some hard times. Plus Paolini was high profile and I think coming back would be even more so - that's publicity for someone.

On humanitarian grounds I think I'd want to give him that chance too. I don't know him but I thought the consensus was he was a good guy - public personas can be deceptive but that has been my impression.

salsiccia1

I broadly agree with all the points about him being a good rider, a decent guy and worth a punt. I always rated him as a rider and anyone can get caught in a situation like his. Unfortunately there's a surfeit of half-decent riders around at the moment, and the back-story, while possibly being used as a positive is more likely to put potential teams off. I'm not saying it's right, it's just the way things are. Add that to his age and it's not hard to see why he hasn't been picked up.

As he said himself, UAE and Bahrain wouldn't go near him, his history wouldn't sit well with the likes of BMC, Cannondale etc and if even Astana are wary then that tells you what the climate is like at the moment.

It's a sad way for it to end but seemed almost inevitable to me.

above_the_cows

I can't decide whether I want to see his legwarmers over bibs look again or not...

On second thoughts if he brings this level of cuteness then I'm in.

dinyull

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I don't know on purely sporting grounds he must have been worth a punt given how well he was going pre-ban especially if that was achieved with him having problems which are now behind him. Then with his experience and race craft it would be a great signing.

Not wanting to cover old ground (pot belge or coke used as a masking agent) but wouldn't most riders be going well pre ban?

RichN95.

Dinyull wrote:

(pot belge or coke used as a masking agent)

Really? Using the easiest to detect banned substances as a masking agent doesn't make any sense. It's like hiding in a transparent box.

dinyull

That argument has already been had in this thread and I'm not saying it's smart road to go down, but possible.

In April 2016, he was banned from competition for 18 months, with the UCI judging that he had not intended to breach the anti-doping rules, as they do not prohibit the use of cocaine outside competition.

They ruled he didn't intend to breach the anti-doping ban - however if cocaine* was used to mask something else, just in case he was popped, he'd be looking at a 4 year ban and not 18 months.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is possible.

*reported around the time by Matt Rendell that it can be used as a masking agent.

dinyull

Sorry, that doesn't read well.

If he hadn't used coke to mask something then he'd be looking at 4 years.

FoldingJoe

Above The Cows wrote:

On second thoughts if he brings this level of cuteness then I'm in.

Maybe he just wanted a catnap!! :oops:

RichN95.

Dinyull wrote:

They ruled he didn't intend to breach the anti-doping ban - however if cocaine* was used to mask something else, just in case he was popped, he'd be looking at a 4 year ban and not 18 months.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it is possible.

*reported around the time by Matt Rendell that it can be used as a masking agent.

Masking agents are diuretics which flush the evidence out of the system faster. Cocaine isn't a diuretic. It's not a masking agent and it stays in the system longer than most banned substances. Taking it as part of a doping regime would be moronic.

thegreatdivide

RichN95 wrote:

Masking agents are diuretics which flush the evidence out of the system faster. Cocaine isn't a diuretic.

You sure about that? I can never get into the toilets when that stuff's kicking about!