Mechanical Doping update

andyp

Joelsim wrote:

A little bird suggested to me that Adrien Costa is serving a silent ban.

If the UCI caught someone vaguely remotely connected to the pro peloton with a motor in their bike, do you seriously think they'd keep it quiet?

andyp

joe2008 wrote:

Cancellara changed bikes twice during his 2010 Flanders win.

Not a normal 'mechanical issue' bike change, pre-planned for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs

Here we go again...

:roll:

joe2008

andyp wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Cancellara changed bikes twice during his 2010 Flanders win.

Not a normal 'mechanical issue' bike change, pre-planned for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs

Here we go again...

:roll:

I guess you reckon he didn't use a motor then

m.r.m.

joe2008 wrote:

andyp wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Cancellara changed bikes twice during his 2010 Flanders win.

Not a normal 'mechanical issue' bike change, pre-planned for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs

Here we go again...

:roll:

I guess you reckon he didn't use a motor then

:roll: :roll:

gweeds

andyp wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

A little bird suggested to me that Adrien Costa is serving a silent ban.

If the UCI caught someone vaguely remotely connected to the pro peloton with a motor in their bike, do you seriously think they'd keep it quiet?

What. Like Lance and EPO?

iainf72

Gweeds wrote:

What. Like Lance and EPO?

They never caught him for it.

gweeds

iainf72 wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

What. Like Lance and EPO?

They never caught him for it.

They knew.

joe2008

M.R.M. wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

andyp wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

Cancellara changed bikes twice during his 2010 Flanders win.

Not a normal 'mechanical issue' bike change, pre-planned for sure:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=al22Nn-6yPs

Here we go again...

:roll:

I guess you reckon he didn't use a motor then

:roll: :roll:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Richmond Racer 2

RichN95 wrote:

sherer wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Agreed:

"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That ****** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.

He could argue that he was being sarcastic and just making an irreverent comment on his form......

not sure exactly which video he is talking about but in the Flanders one I cant see anything unnatural about it at all. None of these so called videos show any out of the ordinary to me

It's mostly people who are baffled that a rider can accelerate whilst in the saddle. If they ever watched a track race their mind would explode.

I have to say that Gaimon cant be dismissed as an armchair tin foil, or someone who knows nowt about racing

I know that Fabs in 2010 has been talked about amongst riders and cycling journos, sotto voce. I know from one journo who is deffo not a tittle tattle monger, that he has his personal doubts about the Swiss fella and that episode

If that makes me a tin foil, so be it

RichN95.

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

I have to say that Gaimon cant be dismissed as an armchair tin foil, or someone who knows nowt about racing

I know that Fabs in 2010 has been talked about amongst riders and cycling journos, sotto voce. I know from one journo who is deffo not a tittle tattle monger, that he has his personal doubts about the Swiss fella and that episode

If that makes me a tin foil, so be it

But the motive for such a giant and unprecedented step just isn't there. There was never a point when Cancellara wasn't a top rider, from being a double junior world champion in the late 90s to being Olympic champion in 2016. Such a step would have been entirely unnecessary. He'd already won in Roubaix and was co-favourite for that race. He followed it with ten consecutive monument podiums.

Claim he doped and I'll say maybe he did maybe, he didn't. But a motor? If people were talking about a one-off performance (e.g. Zaugg winning Lombardy) it might seem more credible. But that performance was in no way out of character for him.

orraloon

Thing that puzzles me about the concept of widespread use of motors or whatever is the need for total solidarity among the numerous individuals involved to maintain secrecy. That no one ever gets disgruntled or falls out with a team or individual, decides to spill beans in revenge, provide actual evidence, and not just rumour and innuendo. 'Tain't human nature that.

Richmond Racer 2

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

I have to say that Gaimon cant be dismissed as an armchair tin foil, or someone who knows nowt about racing

I know that Fabs in 2010 has been talked about amongst riders and cycling journos, sotto voce. I know from one journo who is deffo not a tittle tattle monger, that he has his personal doubts about the Swiss fella and that episode

If that makes me a tin foil, so be it

But the motive for such a giant and unprecedented step just isn't there. There was never a point when Cancellara wasn't a top rider, from being a double junior world champion in the late 90s to being Olympic champion in 2016. Such a step would have been entirely unnecessary. He'd already won in Roubaix and was co-favourite for that race. He followed it with ten consecutive monument podiums.

Claim he doped and I'll say maybe he did maybe, he didn't. But a motor? If people were talking about a one-off performance (e.g. Zaugg winning Lombardy) it might seem more credible. But that performance was in no way out of character for him.

Rich, I dont know. I have no way of knowing for certain. But there has been talk within the sport in and out of the peloton since 2010 about Fabs that year. Gaimon is far from a one-off.

dinyull

In 2010, did his bike look any different to the norm?

I mean, the tech out there in 2017 still isn't the most discreet, and that's with the possibility of 7 years additional development.

joe2008

Dinyull wrote:

In 2010, did his bike look any different to the norm?

I mean, the tech out there in 2017 still isn't the most discreet, and that's with the possibility of 7 years additional development.

Who knows he kept switching it during races

cougie

Richmond Racer 2 wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

sherer wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

Agreed:

"When you watch the footage, his accelerations don't look natural at all, like he's having trouble staying on the top of the pedals. That ****** probably did have a motor," Gaimon wrote in the book.

He could argue that he was being sarcastic and just making an irreverent comment on his form......

not sure exactly which video he is talking about but in the Flanders one I cant see anything unnatural about it at all. None of these so called videos show any out of the ordinary to me

It's mostly people who are baffled that a rider can accelerate whilst in the saddle. If they ever watched a track race their mind would explode.

I have to say that Gaimon cant be dismissed as an armchair tin foil, or someone who knows nowt about racing

I know that Fabs in 2010 has been talked about amongst riders and cycling journos, sotto voce. I know from one journo who is deffo not a tittle tattle monger, that he has his personal doubts about the Swiss fella and that episode

If that makes me a tin foil, so be it

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peleton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

joe2008

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Except not so many fans can claim to have the insight that riding for Slipstream, Garmin-Sharp and Cannondale-Drapac gave him.

ddraver

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Basically it's between believing that someone already at the top of the sport used a motor or that Pro Cyclists can occasionally be whiny little b1tches

cougie

joe2008 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Except not so many fans can claim to have the insight that riding for Slipstream, Garmin-Sharp and Cannondale-Drapac gave him.

And just 4 years after the incidents allegedly happened. Not really sure that's catching him red handed.

Richmond Racer 2

ddraver wrote:

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Basically it's between believing that someone already at the top of the sport used a motor or that Pro Cyclists can occasionally be whiny little b1tches

Nah, its a bit more than whining, chap. Genuinely.

But whether 1. he did cheat, 2. any proof ever emerges...*waves hands*

joe2008

cougie wrote:

joe2008 wrote:

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Except not so many fans can claim to have the insight that riding for Slipstream, Garmin-Sharp and Cannondale-Drapac gave him.

And just 4 years after the incidents allegedly happened. Not really sure that's catching him red handed.

Fair. But, more informed than a fan watching on ES.

sherer

we know from the CIRC that cyclists think they all cheat anyway. I wouldn't put this down to any more than a few pros thinking if they got beat then Fabs must have used a motor to beat them

RichN95.

sherer wrote:

we know from the CIRC that cyclists think they all cheat anyway.

No we don't. We know that the likes of DiLuca think that way. Remember as far as we know, CIRC only interviewed one active and unsanctioned rider (and only one sanctioned one).

andyp

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Read the book. It's quite clear in there that he's relaying a story told to him by Matti Breschel, who was a teammate of Cancellara at the time.

joe2008

andyp wrote:

cougie wrote:

Unless Gaimon rode with the European peloton in 2010 I don't really see he has more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES.

Read the book. It's quite clear in there that he's relaying a story told to him by Matti Breschel, who was a teammate of Cancellara at the time.

So a fair bit more credibility than any fan watching the race on ES then

joelsim

wombly knees wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

A little bird suggested to me that Adrien Costa is serving a silent ban.

So what gave? Did his battery go powless?

Very good.

cougie

Sounds like Breschel was a bit annoyed at missing out at Flanders ?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/bresche ... -flanders/

tailwindhome

Phil Gaimon‏Verified account
@philgaimon


I might as well say something before more words get put in my mouth. In "Draft Animals," I repeated a rumor that's well-documented and many years old, and I presented it as such. I stand by my opinion, but it's exactly that.



Phil Gaimon‏Verified account @philgaimon · Nov 9
Put a gun to my head and that's what I believe, so I'd be a liar if I left it out of the book, but I have no revelations or proof. Ironically, the context in the book is dismissing conspiracy theories about motors today as clickbait.




If it's good enough for the President of the Free World.......

awavey

but then it seems a click baity thing to promote a book with...unless the whole book is full of anecdotal rumours he's heard from his career in cycling, why pick just that one he heard out for consideration, because without evidence or a lead or some proof, its a total dead end

iainf72

awavey wrote:

but then it seems a click baity thing to promote a book with...unless the whole book is full of anecdotal rumours he's heard from his career in cycling, why pick just that one he heard out for consideration, because without evidence or a lead or some proof, its a total dead end

It's not the only one in the book. There are loads.

Straight up accuses the Schlecks of being rubbish because they stopped using EPO, for example.

Also says Cancellera is Luigi. Which we all know he isn't.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

awavey wrote:

but then it seems a click baity thing to promote a book with...unless the whole book is full of anecdotal rumours he's heard from his career in cycling, why pick just that one he heard out for consideration, because without evidence or a lead or some proof, its a total dead end

It's not the only one in the book. There are loads.

Straight up accuses the Schlecks of being rubbish because they stopped using EPO, for example.

Also says Cancellera is Luigi. Which we all know he isn't.

So is his book basically if someone on the internet wrote a book?