Mechanical Doping update

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Comments

  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,878
    Phil Gaimon is the Secret Pro
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Isn't the secret Pro an amalgam of riders ?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,069
    iainf72 wrote:
    awavey wrote:
    but then it seems a click baity thing to promote a book with...unless the whole book is full of anecdotal rumours he's heard from his career in cycling, why pick just that one he heard out for consideration, because without evidence or a lead or some proof, its a total dead end

    It's not the only one in the book. There are loads.

    Straight up accuses the Schlecks of being rubbish because they stopped using EPO, for example.

    Also says Cancellera is Luigi. Which we all know he isn't.

    He doesn't does he. He says he thought Cancellara was Luigi, but Thomas Dekker tells him, "Nah, that was me mate."
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,069
    Phil Gaimon is the Secret Pro

    I don't know if Shane Stokes has ever met Phil Gaimon.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 18,878
    andyp wrote:
    Phil Gaimon is the Secret Pro

    I don't know if Shane Stokes has ever met Phil Gaimon.

    They've never been seen in the same room. :wink:
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    hoping there's more to the book than just a lot of gossip on riders.

    Watched the Flanders win on youtube and from what I could see it all looked normal to me. Need to check out the Milan-San Remo win again but I'm sure that will be the same.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    cougie wrote:
    Isn't the secret Pro an amalgam of riders ?

    An amalgam of riders who live in Shane Stokes' head.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,718
    sherer wrote:
    hoping there's more to the book than just a lot of gossip on riders.

    Watched the Flanders win on youtube and from what I could see it all looked normal to me. Need to check out the Milan-San Remo win again but I'm sure that will be the same.

    I think it's a combination of
    -the way he rides away with apparent ease, in Flanders opening a huge gap on Boonen in about 30 seconds, I have never seen anything that impressive in procycling. Even Froome at his best does not open a gap with that speed. Roubaix was if anything more striking, he's on the flat and the differential in speed between Cancellera and the people he rides away from is incredible.
    -the odd bike changes which appear pre planned, why? They have a stock of identical bikes.
    - the movement of his hand prior to accelerating which doesn't appear to be a gear change.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    So it seems Cancellara has moved the lawyers in on Gaimon's publisher
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    RichN95 wrote:
    So it seems Cancellara has moved the lawyers in on Gaimon's publisher

    So, he's after a public apology, and a stop of distribution of the book - glad my copy has been dispatched by Amazon :wink:
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    andyp wrote:

    He doesn't does he. He says he thought Cancellara was Luigi, but Thomas Dekker tells him, "Nah, that was me mate."

    I read it on a Kindle, so my experience was somewhat different. Chapter 22 he said "I'm pretty sure the bags codenamed Luigi belonged to chinny"

    There is a footnote which has the Dekker bit you mention. I hadn't seen it until you mentioned it, but it's not like a correction in the main body of text.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,235
    iainf72 wrote:
    andyp wrote:

    He doesn't does he. He says he thought Cancellara was Luigi, but Thomas Dekker tells him, "Nah, that was me mate."

    I read it on a Kindle, so my experience was somewhat different. Chapter 22 he said "I'm pretty sure the bags codenamed Luigi belonged to chinny"

    There is a footnote which has the Dekker bit you mention. I hadn't seen it until you mentioned it, but it's not like a correction in the main body of text.

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/dekker- ... ign=buffer
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Phil Gaimon‏Verified account
    @philgaimon


    I might as well say something before more words get put in my mouth. In "Draft Animals," I repeated a rumor that's well-documented and many years old, and I presented it as such. I stand by my opinion, but it's exactly that.



    Phil Gaimon‏Verified account @philgaimon · Nov 9
    Put a gun to my head and that's what I believe, so I'd be a liar if I left it out of the book, but I have no revelations or proof. Ironically, the context in the book is dismissing conspiracy theories about motors today as clickbait.




    If it's good enough for the President of the Free World.......


    Doesn't repeating defamatory statements make you liable?

    Gaimon on some very dangerous ground here. This is not Walsh with multiple sworn witnesses. This is repeating the word of one disgruntled rider, who admits it was just a rumour.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,235
    TBF, would be fun seeing it go to court, David Irving style.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    sherer wrote:
    hoping there's more to the book than just a lot of gossip on riders.

    Watched the Flanders win on youtube and from what I could see it all looked normal to me. Need to check out the Milan-San Remo win again but I'm sure that will be the same.

    I think it's a combination of
    -the way he rides away with apparent ease, in Flanders opening a huge gap on Boonen in about 30 seconds, I have never seen anything that impressive in procycling. Even Froome at his best does not open a gap with that speed. Roubaix was if anything more striking, he's on the flat and the differential in speed between Cancellera and the people he rides away from is incredible.
    -the odd bike changes which appear pre planned, why? They have a stock of identical bikes.
    - the movement of his hand prior to accelerating which doesn't appear to be a gear change.

    Yes he gets a good gap, but can we really do trial by video on this. I move my hands all the time, I'm sure if I was filmed it would look strange.
    Unless we compare it to every accelerating ever in cycling that was filmed, can we really say it was beyond the limits of what is possible on a bike.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 8,718
    It'd be interesting to look back at the forum thread of the day to see what the reaction was, unfortunately I've got to get back to work in 10 minutes.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,551
    It'd be interesting to look back at the forum thread of the day to see what the reaction was, unfortunately I've got to get back to work in 10 minutes.

    Here you go: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... e&start=80

    Plenty of chat about the astonishing display of power. A couple of doping references including a Luigi (IanF I'm looking at you) and some love from FF.

    BTW for thread starters this is a good reason for putting the year of the race in the thread title.
  • dish_dash
    dish_dash Posts: 5,551
    Also, the Breschel interview at the end of the thread has him saying that Fabian deserved the win and the team could do better mechanically. Not exactly the comments from someone who things his teammate just won on a bike with a motor...
  • joe2008
    joe2008 Posts: 1,531
    So, why isn't Cancellara suing?
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I'd forgotten that I thought it was fantastically impressive at the time.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    joe2008 wrote:
    So, why isn't Cancellara suing?
    He's taken the first steps towards doing so.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,235
    sherer wrote:
    hoping there's more to the book than just a lot of gossip on riders.

    Watched the Flanders win on youtube and from what I could see it all looked normal to me. Need to check out the Milan-San Remo win again but I'm sure that will be the same.

    I think it's a combination of
    -the way he rides away with apparent ease, in Flanders opening a huge gap on Boonen in about 30 seconds, I have never seen anything that impressive in procycling. Even Froome at his best does not open a gap with that speed. Roubaix was if anything more striking, he's on the flat and the differential in speed between Cancellera and the people he rides away from is incredible.
    -the odd bike changes which appear pre planned, why? They have a stock of identical bikes.
    - the movement of his hand prior to accelerating which doesn't appear to be a gear change.

    You know Boonen cramped up, right?

    And on a steep cobbled climb where momentum is everything?

    Hell a fresh me would have been able to put a good 10 seconds into Boonen had I arrived at that steep bit with him. He almost parks it.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    While I don't like the use of climbing times, it's worth noting that he wasn't particularly quick up the Muur that year. The following year he was only five seconds slower (along with Chavanel) while Gilbert, catching them, went five seconds quicker with Leukemans and Hincapie in his wheel.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    sherer wrote:
    hoping there's more to the book than just a lot of gossip on riders.

    Watched the Flanders win on youtube and from what I could see it all looked normal to me. Need to check out the Milan-San Remo win again but I'm sure that will be the same.

    I think it's a combination of
    -the way he rides away with apparent ease, in Flanders opening a huge gap on Boonen in about 30 seconds, I have never seen anything that impressive in procycling. Even Froome at his best does not open a gap with that speed. Roubaix was if anything more striking, he's on the flat and the differential in speed between Cancellera and the people he rides away from is incredible.
    -the odd bike changes which appear pre planned, why? They have a stock of identical bikes.
    - the movement of his hand prior to accelerating which doesn't appear to be a gear change.

    You know Boonen cramped up, right?

    And on a steep cobbled climb where momentum is everything?

    Hell a fresh me would have been able to put a good 10 seconds into Boonen had I arrived at that steep bit with him. He almost parks it.

    Hasn't noticed Boonen cramp up, but that would explain a lot. Every time I've watched the clip since I think ive just focused on Cancellara.

    Still waiting to see a clip of someone on a bike that looks out of the ordinary. Even footage of Femke in the races before the ban look fine to me, although she always claimed she never used a motor in competition.
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Even that one where she distances the whole field including Helen Wyman on that first climb ? Looked a bit odd to me given what we know now.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Fenix wrote:
    Even that one where she distances the whole field including Helen Wyman on that first climb ? Looked a bit odd to me given what we know now.
    i'll rewatch it again tonight but my memory of watching was it didn't look like the bike was being controlled by a motor, and the pedal stroke didn't look out of the ordinary. I don't follow cross so wouldn't know the names of any of the other riders to give it much contect
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    sherer wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    Even that one where she distances the whole field including Helen Wyman on that first climb ? Looked a bit odd to me given what we know now.
    i'll rewatch it again tonight but my memory of watching was it didn't look like the bike was being controlled by a motor, and the pedal stroke didn't look out of the ordinary. I don't follow cross so wouldn't know the names of any of the other riders to give it much contect

    The system she was using (Vivax Assist type) is a pedal assist system i.e., the bike doesn't just go along when you're not pedaling. Means it probably wouldn't look like she was just riding a motorbike.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,137
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    Even that one where she distances the whole field including Helen Wyman on that first climb ? Looked a bit odd to me given what we know now.
    i'll rewatch it again tonight but my memory of watching was it didn't look like the bike was being controlled by a motor, and the pedal stroke didn't look out of the ordinary. I don't follow cross so wouldn't know the names of any of the other riders to give it much contect

    The system she was using (Vivax Assist type) is a pedal assist system i.e., the bike doesn't just go along when you're not pedaling. Means it probably wouldn't look like she was just riding a motorbike.
    It's more that she opens up a large gap while the rest of the field doesn't really get strung out at all.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,196
    RichN95 wrote:
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    sherer wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    Even that one where she distances the whole field including Helen Wyman on that first climb ? Looked a bit odd to me given what we know now.
    i'll rewatch it again tonight but my memory of watching was it didn't look like the bike was being controlled by a motor, and the pedal stroke didn't look out of the ordinary. I don't follow cross so wouldn't know the names of any of the other riders to give it much contect

    The system she was using (Vivax Assist type) is a pedal assist system i.e., the bike doesn't just go along when you're not pedaling. Means it probably wouldn't look like she was just riding a motorbike.
    It's more that she opens up a large gap while the rest of the field doesn't really get strung out at all.

    Yes, exactly - but what I'm getting at is that the bike itself probably won't look funny because it's not just a motorbike.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    She was sat in the saddle and had a three second gap at the top of the first hill with women out of the saddle behind trying to keep up.

    Maybe she's just a great climber but you'd think she would have to get out of the saddle for that power ?

    Unless she had motor assistance..