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  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    I probably didn't include enough words. Renewable energy generates power far more cheaply than nuclear, but the generation can be intermittent, so if government wants to spend a fortune on something, then it would be better to try to plug the gap created by renewable energy. Incredibly expensive nuclear does not solve that problem.

    Hinkley's current price is £124.65/MWh and it will have this, indexed, for 35 years. EDF have been burnt and can't make it work at this pricing. Also, because it's mostly baseload, the country will pay that price for production night and day - not just during peak periods.

    Finally, note the capacity factor of nuclear is around 80% (a lot less in France at the moment) whereas modern offshore wind is close to 50%.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    It can't generate during slack water, but why can't it generate when tide goes both ways? Also, wind turbines produce a constant level of power during a significant range of wind speed

  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,317

    Thanks for the context, TBB. I'd been wondering about the indexing of the MWh rate from the one quoted in PE.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,532

    You can design a turbine to generate in both flow directions. I think building that into something that can withstand the Severn tide is more challenging.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119

    Labour saying they won't review council tax bands. Current system obviously perfect.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    Yes, I was querying your point about how it couldn't generate consistent power.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,532

    Sorry, yes, supposing you can overcome the technical problems of a turbine in the Severn, you're still going to have two separate periods of generation per day, sybchronised with the moon.

    Was just reading about the vast quantities of silt and sand that the Severn moves up and down its estuary. Millions of tonnes per tide.

    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,317

    I think it will never happen. The implications of both the engineering challenges and the probability of unintended environmental 'realignments' are just too vast.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    The moon is fairly predictable and batteries will solve the intermittent issue. It's the longer term stuff where batteries aren't the solution.

    No comment on the technical issues although there are a lot of hyrdo power plants that suffer from silt and the like, so some of the problems will be known and understood.

  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    I still find the existence of offshore wind fascinating. Just can't see how it can work. Foundations in the middle of the sea, massive turbines, lengthy undersea cables and tricky maintenance, but it does work and works very well. I suspect the problems with Swansea tidal lagoon are that the market for further opportunities is smaller.

  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462

    Tidal doesn't have to be a full scale barrage but you would think in a country that is surrounded by sea and that has some massive tidal ranges there would be more money getting spent in trying to harness that and become a world leader in the technology. I've also wondered if there is any way you could piggy back some kind of tidal system on the off-shore wind turbines. Some form up simple generation system mounted on the pylon that rises and drops with the tide. The cables are already there for the transmission element. However, my knowledge of electricity is slim to non-existent so I guess there's just issues like the infrastructure could handle any additional generated power.

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,307

    There was some research and development into wave generation around 10 years ago.

    It seems to have gone out with the tide. 😉

    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,887

    There are lots of different tidal techs. Places that are good for tidal stream are probably not good for offshore wind.

    Here is a small project

    https://saerenewables.com/tidal-stream/meygen/

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661

    On PE carry loophole, this is sensible.


    It makes sense for returns on investment to be taxed differently to encourage investment.

    It is also plainly obvious to anyone in the industry that "carry" is just another way of paying people more - it's not actually people investing their own money.

    So if you are playing with your own money in a PE shop, it makes sense not to have it taxed as income.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Remember folks, don't vote Labour today - leftiebollox is never the answer 😊

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    An interesting but unsurprising view on Starmers only real decision so far:

    Coming from a former chief immigration officer this appears to carry some weight and is in line with previous reports about the impact of scrapping the Rwanda scheme with no alternative deterrent or prevention mechanism in place.

    Quote in case it's paywalled:

    "Sir Keir Starmer’s decision to scrap the Rwanda plan will lead to “open season” for small boats crossings, a former Border Force chief has said.

    Kevin Saunders, who was Chief Immigration Officer covering Calais and Dunkirk, told Times Radio: “The trouble is he [Sir Keir Starmer] is being very negative about Rwanda. Well, that’s fine. He’s bound to be.

    “But we don’t have anything from him about how they’re going to stop the boats. It’s going to be open season.”

    Mr Saunders also claimed that migrants in camps in northern France were worried about Rwanda scheme and believed that a Labour government would be better for their immigration chances

    “There’s been a lot of unease in the camps in northern France about the Rwanda scheme. They were very, very worried,” Mr Saunders said. 

    “Now, of course, we’re seeing that the Kurds over in northern France have come up with a name for Kier, which I think means ‘the friendly one’, because they all believe that he’s going to be very good for illegal migration,” he added."

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 7

    *dons FA hat on*


    Curious how they’re collecting this information from the northern French camps?

    How does Mr Saunders explain the dramatic increase in boat trips under his lengthy watch?

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,603

    The thing I find most amazing about the calais migrants is how clued up they are about some issues but clueless about others.

  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,603

    They have no clue that the Rwanda scheme is a complete shambles and that there was never any real risk of getting sent there, but are fully up to date on the rest of British politics.

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    It's not the only report of this type recently and given the source of this one it carries some weight as mentioned.

    Does anyone have any counter evidence?

    Anyway, well done Labour on your first decision, maybe there's a song in here somewhere...


    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,603

    Counter evidence would be all the graphs that show crossings v time that show no reduction around the announcement that the Tory party were going to waste millions of pounds pretending try and send people to Rwanda.

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,119

    Counter evidence would be the record number of crossings so far this year.

    The migrants in calais seemed to be the only ones who had any doubt that starmer was going to win.

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 7


    yes, the problem is definitely not having the Rwanda scheme

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited July 7
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    It was only put into place shortly before the election so didn't have the chance to really start having an impact.

    So what is Labour doing to deter them?

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Given the lack of a deterrent, do you expect the numbers to decline from now on? In particular given that potential migrants seem very pleased with Labour having taken over.

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,354

    Interesting how a few cyclists seem to know better than a former chief immigration officer.

    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,336

    increases with the uk leaving the eu

    there's only one possible conclusion: those small boats are full of brexiters desperate to move to clacton and be near farage, the man who made their journey possible

    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,119

    Starmer has ordered the remaining immigrants in the Rwanda deportation centre to be freed. All 2 of them.

    The other 218 had already been freed by the previous government. According to the Express this morning.