Join the Labour Party and save your country!

rick_chasey

Sure I guess I just mean intellectually.

If you were gonna create an education system, you probably wouldn't do it this way.

Sure other nations have private schools (like the Netherlands), but they aren't treated like paths to privilege. Almost the opposite.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No, the thinking is that getting rid of something that apparently produces educational results because it may lead to an element of elitism is stupid and it would be better to try to bring educational standards for all up to the same level.

You went to Cambridge Uni didn't you? Do you think it should be scrapped as a place of learning because a disproportionate number of the elite went there and everyone should be brought down to the level of London Metropolitan instead?

TheBigBean

rjsterry wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

The main appeal for me about private schools is the reduced probability of ending up in a gang.

:shock: It was all making sense until that last bit. What schools have you been to?

It wouldn't be my view for all areas of the UK.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No. I am unconvinced that is the private schooling itself that makes the difference (except perhaps in the field of elite sports where facilities have a bigger impact). Obviously private schools would like everyone to think that it did, as it's a great marketing tool.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No. I am unconvinced that is the private schooling that makes the difference. Obviously private schools would like everyone to think that it did, as it's a great marketing tool.

So you think parents who pay for it are mugs?

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No. I am unconvinced that is the private schooling that makes the difference. Obviously private schools would like everyone to think that it did, as it's a great marketing tool.

So you think parents who pay for it are mugs?

In some cases, yes. That people on seven figure salaries still talk about where they went to school suggests a certain insecurity, almost that they have to keep mentioning it to prove it was worth it.

rick_chasey

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No. I am unconvinced that is the private schooling that makes the difference. Obviously private schools would like everyone to think that it did, as it's a great marketing tool.

So you think parents who pay for it are mugs?

In some cases, yes. That people on seven figure salaries still talk about where they went to school suggests a certain insecurity, almost that they have to keep mentioning it to prove it was worth it.

In fairness to them, it's usually in the context of knowing someone who my colleague then knows and the jabber on about stuff that sounds alien to me and laugh hilariously with the punch line "PINT OF CLARET" or something like that.


I'd love to bin them for a generation as an experiment; I think enough people believe in their ability to provide their off-spring with some privilege not affored by state schools otherwise parents wouldn't pay for it. Unless they are genuinely such awful people they don't want their kids mixing with other kids from lower socio-economic households, which couldn't possibly be a reason....

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

On an anecdotal level, though perhaps not trivial, it is nuts that the most effective way of increases the chances that your child becomes PM is to send then to Eton. It is a ludicrous proportion of PMs.

I mean that is properly nuts. *Where* you go should have as little baring as possible, surely.

What kind of psycho plans for their child to be PM?

It's not even as if the pay is very good given the level of responsibility.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

So the thinking here is, it's fine it's unfair, because that's what parents want?

And because you know some people who have done alright from a state school?

No. I am unconvinced that is the private schooling that makes the difference. Obviously private schools would like everyone to think that it did, as it's a great marketing tool.

So you think parents who pay for it are mugs?

In some cases, yes. That people on seven figure salaries still talk about where they went to school suggests a certain insecurity, almost that they have to keep mentioning it to prove it was worth it.

In fairness to them, it's usually in the context of knowing someone who my colleague then knows and the jabber on about stuff that sounds alien to me and laugh hilariously with the punch line "PINT OF CLARET" or something like that.


I'd love to bin them for a generation as an experiment; I think enough people believe in their ability to provide their off-spring with some privilege not affored by state schools otherwise parents wouldn't pay for it. Unless they are genuinely such awful people they don't want their kids mixing with other kids from lower socio-economic households, which couldn't possibly be a reason....

Snobbery I'm sure plays it's part. I'm sure they all believe it works, but as TBB suggests, maybe it's not the school that makes the difference, but the general level of affluence and ability to buy your way into most things.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

On an anecdotal level, though perhaps not trivial, it is nuts that the most effective way of increases the chances that your child becomes PM is to send then to Eton. It is a ludicrous proportion of PMs.

I mean that is properly nuts. *Where* you go should have as little baring as possible, surely.

What kind of psycho plans for their child to be PM?

It's not even as if the pay is very good given the level of responsibility.

Exactly. Grounds to call social services if you ask me.

morstar

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

rjsterry

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This I can believe.

Stevo_666

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

I suppose it is inevitable as they have already pushed the grade criteria as far as they can go, so it was all down to one person's gut feeling, which is hardly a rigorous approach.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

I suppose it is inevitable as they have already pushed the grade criteria as far as they can go, so it was all down to one person's gut feeling, which is hardly a rigorous approach.

The more cynical view is that it's too expensive and time consuming...

Pross

Corbyn on the news again flanked by his teenage / early 20 something 'minders'. It really is cringe inducing and they seem to think they are genuinely hard and scary protecting the chosen one on his walkabout. The fact he seems to feel the need to be so surrounded when walking through members of his own party speaks volumes.

bompington

Pross wrote:

Corbyn on the news again flanked by his teenage / early 20 something 'minders'. It really is cringe inducing and they seem to think they are genuinely hard and scary protecting the chosen one on his walkabout. The fact he seems to feel the need to be so surrounded when walking through members of his own party speaks volumes.

Blut und ehre?

Pross

bompington wrote:

Pross wrote:

Corbyn on the news again flanked by his teenage / early 20 something 'minders'. It really is cringe inducing and they seem to think they are genuinely hard and scary protecting the chosen one on his walkabout. The fact he seems to feel the need to be so surrounded when walking through members of his own party speaks volumes.

Blut und ehre?

Yeah, that was one thing that sprung to mind. Am I the only one who finds it a bit disturbing?

morstar

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

I suppose it is inevitable as they have already pushed the grade criteria as far as they can go, so it was all down to one person's gut feeling, which is hardly a rigorous approach.

The more cynical view is that it's too expensive and time consuming...

The lady who gave our talk more or less said that. Given the talent pool available, and supply of academically gifted students chasing a finite number of places, a minor difference in outcome at significant cost to both University and student doesn't really make sense.

Pross

So the new genius idea is a nationalised pharma company to manufacture cheap drugs for the NHS. Great theory but who is going to pay the billions of R&D money the existing pharma companies put into new products? Is the idea that they will still do the expensive stuff and simply give away the intellectual property? I always thought must drugs become cheap once the R&D costs are recouped in any case.

briantrumpet

Pross wrote:

I always thought must drugs become cheap once the R&D costs are recouped in any case.

Not entirely the case. Seems that drug companies are fixing the market by stealth: supposed competitors are stopping making certain generic drugs to leave just one company making them, which then jacks up the price x100. The anti-nausea drug I was on for my post-concussion syndrome, prochlorperazine, has been one such. And there are many more it seems... see Private Eye.

Stevo_666

Pross wrote:

So the new genius idea is a nationalised pharma company to manufacture cheap drugs for the NHS. Great theory but who is going to pay the billions of R&D money the existing pharma companies put into new products? Is the idea that they will still do the expensive stuff and simply give away the intellectual property? I always thought must drugs become cheap once the R&D costs are recouped in any case.

You could put forward that sort argument to produce/provide stuff cheaply for almost any sort of industry. As New Old Labour seems to be doing. And of course it will all pay for itself and be wildly successful, as seen in many socialist countries.

elbowloh

Pross wrote:

So the new genius idea is a nationalised pharma company to manufacture cheap drugs for the NHS. Great theory but who is going to pay the billions of R&D money the existing pharma companies put into new products? Is the idea that they will still do the expensive stuff and simply give away the intellectual property? I always thought must drugs become cheap once the R&D costs are recouped in any case.

Let's not forget though the tax-payer money that is also given to pharma companies to develop drugs. As a minimum the IP should be shared in that case.

As for the last point, I don't think this is actually the case.

shirley_basso

Isn't it once the patent expires, so they can be made generically?

rick_chasey

F*cking stupid idea.

Lagrange

morstar wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

I suppose it is inevitable as they have already pushed the grade criteria as far as they can go, so it was all down to one person's gut feeling, which is hardly a rigorous approach.

The more cynical view is that it's too expensive and time consuming...

The lady who gave our talk more or less said that. Given the talent pool available, and supply of academically gifted students chasing a finite number of places, a minor difference in outcome at significant cost to both University and student doesn't really make sense.

Maybe in Bristol the animals are deaf so the applicants speaking skills are not relevant.

thistle_

morstar wrote:

The lady who gave our talk more or less said that. Given the talent pool available, and supply of academically gifted students chasing a finite number of places, a minor difference in outcome at significant cost to both University and student doesn't really make sense.

I only had 1 interview for a university place while I was looking:
Imperial College were quite intense for someone just leaving school - why should we give you a place on our course, why do you thing you're good enough for us etc.
Most of the others I had a "chat" with the lecturers but I think it was to give the opportunity to ask any questions on a 1 to 1 basis rather than primarily to assess you.

shirley_basso

Lagrange wrote:

morstar wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

morstar wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

As I may have posted before, my mother was involved with the interviewing for Bristol Vet School for a few years. I remember her commenting that grades were a pretty poor indicator of how they came across in the interview and suitability to become a veterinary surgeon.

Interestingly enough, they don't interview anymore. We did the open day this year as my daughter is aiming to do veterinary starting 2020.
With all the objective assessment methods (questionnaires etc.) they use, they have statistically identified that the interview made no difference.
I found that quite interesting as somebody with an analytical mind who also has done a lot of interviewing/hiring over the years.

This is true as we were at the Bristol vet course open day just over 2 weeks ago and they told us exactly the same thing (although all the other unis she is applying to do still interview).

I suppose it is inevitable as they have already pushed the grade criteria as far as they can go, so it was all down to one person's gut feeling, which is hardly a rigorous approach.

The more cynical view is that it's too expensive and time consuming...

The lady who gave our talk more or less said that. Given the talent pool available, and supply of academically gifted students chasing a finite number of places, a minor difference in outcome at significant cost to both University and student doesn't really make sense.

Maybe in Bristol the animals are deaf so the applicants speaking skills are not relevant.

Academia isn't what makes a good vet, it's empathy.

Lagrange

Shirley Basso wrote:

Academia isn't what makes a good vet, it's empathy.[/quote]


I think that putting your hand up a cows pussy is part of it too.

shirley_basso

Depends what type of vet you want to be.