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  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    So, now John MacDonnell is claiming that damage to overhead power lines can't happen if the railways are nationalised. He must be magic :)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39220582

    _95059491_tweet976.jpg
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    So, now John MacDonnell is claiming that damage to overhead power lines can't happen if the railways are nationalised. He must be magic :)

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-39220582

    _95059491_tweet976.jpg
    I particularly like the use of the word "when". Rather a bold claim.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Blimey. The fuss about the 1% Class 4 NIC rise. :shock:

    It tells you something about the state of British politics when Hammond appears to have more opposition to that move from his own backbenchers than the Opposition.

    JC not figured out if this is hammering the poor or shutting a loophole for the rich.
    Probably neither. This is a fairly dull budget from my point of view at least. The most important stuff is what was announced in the last few budgets that is now taking effect this year, e.g. apprentice levy, CT rate reductions, debt rules etc.

    imo dull is good when it comes to budget. The devil is always in the detail so best to wait a few day before taking a view.
    We usually get the 'Big 4' going through it with a fine toothcomb and sending reports on the day or by the morning after and flushing out any significant stuff.

    I've still not seen anything that particularly bothers me.
    And TM has caved in already and delayed the NIC change until the Autumn. Thought she had a bit more fortitude than that.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Blimey. The fuss about the 1% Class 4 NIC rise. :shock:

    It tells you something about the state of British politics when Hammond appears to have more opposition to that move from his own backbenchers than the Opposition.

    JC not figured out if this is hammering the poor or shutting a loophole for the rich.
    Probably neither. This is a fairly dull budget from my point of view at least. The most important stuff is what was announced in the last few budgets that is now taking effect this year, e.g. apprentice levy, CT rate reductions, debt rules etc.

    imo dull is good when it comes to budget. The devil is always in the detail so best to wait a few day before taking a view.
    We usually get the 'Big 4' going through it with a fine toothcomb and sending reports on the day or by the morning after and flushing out any significant stuff.

    I've still not seen anything that particularly bothers me.
    And TM has caved in already and delayed the NIC change until the Autumn. Thought she had a bit more fortitude than that.

    yep was very disappointed in that. He should take the extra £2k in dividend tax relief to bung the hole.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    It's in the pipeline. TBH I don't know why they just didn't just say from the outset that it would come into effect later. Like the apprentice levy, CT rates etc.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    It's in the pipeline. TBH I don't know why they just didn't just say from the outset that it would come into effect later. Like the apprentice levy, CT rates etc.

    anybody who has more than their ISA limit (over 17 years) in shares can afford a few quid in tax.

    Should just merge tax/nics and make it an honest rate
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,400
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Blimey. The fuss about the 1% Class 4 NIC rise. :shock:

    It tells you something about the state of British politics when Hammond appears to have more opposition to that move from his own backbenchers than the Opposition.

    JC not figured out if this is hammering the poor or shutting a loophole for the rich.
    Probably neither. This is a fairly dull budget from my point of view at least. The most important stuff is what was announced in the last few budgets that is now taking effect this year, e.g. apprentice levy, CT rate reductions, debt rules etc.

    imo dull is good when it comes to budget. The devil is always in the detail so best to wait a few day before taking a view.
    We usually get the 'Big 4' going through it with a fine toothcomb and sending reports on the day or by the morning after and flushing out any significant stuff.

    I've still not seen anything that particularly bothers me.

    Good friend of mine used to work in marketing for one of the big 4, till quite recently - they would get everyone in for an all nighter on budget day.

    She's since left as she found trying to market tax advisory services fantastically dull...
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    Good friend of mine used to work in marketing for one of the big 4, till quite recently - they would get everyone in for an all nighter on budget day.

    She's since left as she found trying to market tax advisory services fantastically dull...
    I can imagine. Much less interesting than actually doing tax :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.

    So Hammond messes up and its JC's fault? Labour should nt oppose just for the sake of it.

    There should be increases in NIc for self employed, they now get a full state pension and this needs to be paid for, now, this money will either come off public services or another rise in a different tax, lets stick it on PAYE nic contributions? after all these employed arent added jack to the economy are they?

    the fault here is the Tories passed into law no increases in vat/tax or nic for 5 years, what a stupid policy, Brexit proves that we need a flexible approach.

    Yet again though, amazing weakness from the Government, at a time when they have no really opposition.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    mamba80 wrote:
    Yet again though, amazing weakness from the Government, at a time when they have no really opposition.
    It's not "despite no opposition" though, it's "because of no opposition".
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,866
    mamba80 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.

    So Hammond messes up and its JC's fault? Labour should nt oppose just for the sake of it.

    It's not his fault, but surely he should have ditched his pre-prepared questions and at least made May look uncomfortable.
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.

    So Hammond messes up and its JC's fault? Labour should nt oppose just for the sake of it.

    It's not his fault, but surely he should have ditched his pre-prepared questions and at least made May look uncomfortable.

    yes this is true, he isnt what you d call "dynamic" is he? he should be on some ideas committee tucked away in Westminster, a leader he is not but who if not JC ? i d vote for that Eagle woman, i cant remember which one, Maria?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,065
    I am confused.
    Just how do you increase taxes on cash in hand work?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,866
    PBlakeney wrote:
    I am confused.
    Just how do you increase taxes on cash in hand work?

    Something like the Nota Fiscal Paulista in Brazil?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    mamba80 wrote:
    There should be increases in NIc for self employed, they now get a full state pension and this needs to be paid for.
    No Statutory Sick Pay, no Statutory Maternity Pay, etc. Don't swallow the Tory line that the benefits are the same so the tax aka NIC should be the same.

    Let's up individual tax rates while reducing corporate tax rates, that'll work. Oh hang on, Amazon don't get a vote and White Van Man does..... screech... U-turn.

    Embarassing.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.
    Although as you said before, 1% on NIC was a bit of a storm in a teacup, so reversing it is just taking said storm out of the teacup. Ho hum.

    In the meantime, feel the size of the poll gap :)
    http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm
    Just a measly 16 point lead over Labour and 36 points over the Lib Dems. Happy Days.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    orraloon wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    There should be increases in NIc for self employed, they now get a full state pension and this needs to be paid for.
    No Statutory Sick Pay, no Statutory Maternity Pay, etc. Don't swallow the Tory line that the benefits are the same so the tax aka NIC should be the same.

    Let's up individual tax rates while reducing corporate tax rates, that'll work. Oh hang on, Amazon don't get a vote and White Van Man does..... screech... U-turn.

    Embarassing.

    True, but you can claim Maternity Allowance or ESA. It's not quite as bleak as some would suggest.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,410
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Well that didn't last long. Bottled the NIC change already.
    Listening to their customers? (AS HMRC likes to call us).
    Ha. Yes, TM was using that one, too. Just shows how poor JC is at PMQ. An open goal like that and he was still outdone by Angus Robertson of the SNP.
    Although as you said before, 1% on NIC was a bit of a storm in a teacup, so reversing it is just taking said storm out of the teacup. Ho hum.

    In the meantime, feel the size of the poll gap :)
    http://www.ukpolitical.info/General_election_polls.htm
    Just a measly 16 point lead over Labour and 36 points over the Lib Dems. Happy Days.

    I remember that the "omnishambles" budget in 2012 was going to sink the Tories, with all their professed love for pasties guaranteed to back fire on them. Not sure many people were thinking of that in the election in 2015!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    True. If a reversal of of 1% NIC rise is all the lefties have to whinge about then TM doesn't need to worry too much.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • mamba80
    mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    orraloon wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    There should be increases in NIc for self employed, they now get a full state pension and this needs to be paid for.
    No Statutory Sick Pay, no Statutory Maternity Pay, etc. Don't swallow the Tory line that the benefits are the same so the tax aka NIC should be the same.

    Let's up individual tax rates while reducing corporate tax rates, that'll work. Oh hang on, Amazon don't get a vote and White Van Man does..... screech... U-turn.

    Embarassing.

    I'm not, the self employed would still be pay much less than employees to account for the lack of other benefits.

    this increase is levelling the playing field for the new right to claim a full state pension and is remarkably good value too, now its a freebie.

    fwiw, i ve had dealings with 3 separate trades in the last week, all 3 were established concerns, all 3 wanted cash, for amounts varying from £170 to £300, i dont feel too sorry for the genuine self employed.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    More plotting and scheming over in leftie la-la land:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39333130

    According to Tom Watson today:
    "If this secret left-wing plan to take over the Labour Party comes to pass, our electoral existence is in peril."
    Where have you been for the last 18 months Tom? :D
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    More plotting and scheming over in leftie la-la land:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39333130

    According to Tom Watson today:
    "If this secret left-wing plan to take over the Labour Party comes to pass, our electoral existence is in peril."
    Where have you been for the last 18 months Tom? :D
    It's pretty desperate stuff. If the Labour party was an animal, one might be considering euthanasia on compassionate grounds.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    More plotting and scheming over in leftie la-la land:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39333130

    According to Tom Watson today:
    "If this secret left-wing plan to take over the Labour Party comes to pass, our electoral existence is in peril."
    Where have you been for the last 18 months Tom? :D
    It's pretty desperate stuff. If the Labour party was an animal, one might be considering euthanasia on compassionate grounds.
    Just watched the BBC news - its now a public slanging match with McDonnell weighing in. Meanwhile, Big Len denies all knowledge.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    More plotting and scheming over in leftie la-la land:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39333130

    According to Tom Watson today:
    "If this secret left-wing plan to take over the Labour Party comes to pass, our electoral existence is in peril."
    Where have you been for the last 18 months Tom? :D
    It's pretty desperate stuff. If the Labour party was an animal, one might be considering euthanasia on compassionate grounds.
    Just watched the BBC news - its now a public slanging match with McDonnell weighing in. Meanwhile, Big Len denies all knowledge.
    Saw that, too. Not very convincing was he?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    He seemed to be suppressing a bit of a smirk when he said he knew nothing about it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,209
    I think I'd call it barely concealed glee.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,846
    rjsterry wrote:
    I think I'd call it barely concealed glee.
    This is going to be fun to watch. Wonder if this will finally cause the party to splinter?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]

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