Join the Labour Party and save your country!
Comments
-
Of course the future is unpredictable and eventually the tories will come a cropper. These things go in cycles. But having a divided and potentially extreme opposition cannot do too much harm come election time. The last time Labour went off the deep end, the conservatives were in power for 4 terms/18 years.
And in the end if these events serve to reorganise labour into a more sensible and moderate party, or at least hive off the far left into a fringe protest party which is what it should be, then overall that may well be good for UK politics."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
the point i m making is that no one knows the future and all this talk about the uk being governed by the tories for decades to come, should Corbyn get elected, is pure BS.
I think that Labour could be in a lot of difficulty anyway due to their stance on immigration. Unless things calm down a bit in parts of the Muslim world, the left in Europe will continue to lose working class votes.
(As soon as Stevo reads this, he'll be putting £3 in an envelope to send to Islamic State :P )
Reminds me - there's a big scam in Russia at the moment where criminals pose as wannabe IS joiners, receive the money IS send out to get recruits over the line and then keep it.
Unsurprisingly, IS don't really go to the fraud office to investigate it, so it never gets dealt with. Bahaha.0 -
Of course the future is unpredictable and eventually the tories will come a cropper. These things go in cycles. But having a divided and potentially extreme opposition cannot do too much harm come election time. The last time Labour went off the deep end, the conservatives were in power for 4 terms/18 years.
And in the end if these events serve to reorganise labour into a more sensible and moderate party, or at least hive off the far left into a fringe protest party which is what it should be, then overall that may well be good for UK politics.
Letting the looneys in the Tory party have more of a say (because opposition is so disorganised) leaves the UK worse than a position where Tories are forced to keep things coherent internally.
As much as you have the odd full blown socalist sitting in Labour, you have some swivel eyed looney Anti-Euro guys in the Tories.
That'd matter less if the Tories hadn't promised a referendum. :roll:0 -
Yep, terrible that, letting the people have their say on a major issue for the nation. Very un-EuropeanOf course the future is unpredictable and eventually the tories will come a cropper. These things go in cycles. But having a divided and potentially extreme opposition cannot do too much harm come election time. The last time Labour went off the deep end, the conservatives were in power for 4 terms/18 years.
And in the end if these events serve to reorganise labour into a more sensible and moderate party, or at least hive off the far left into a fringe protest party which is what it should be, then overall that may well be good for UK politics.
Letting the looneys in the Tory party have more of a say (because opposition is so disorganised) leaves the UK worse than a position where Tories are forced to keep things coherent internally.
As much as you have the odd full blown socalist sitting in Labour, you have some swivel eyed looney Anti-Euro guys in the Tories.
That'd matter less if the Tories hadn't promised a referendum. :roll:
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Sometimes public don't know what's best for them.
You ask them to choose who to govern, not what rules to put in place.
Difference.
Otherwise you'd have a referendum on every bloody law, and that'd be a shambles.0 -
The voting population have this annoying habit of deciding for themselves what they consider to be important. Of course people dont know whats best for them, otherwise wed all pay no tax, have 200mpH speed limits and have an armed forces consisting of large, fluffy dogs, but its not the principle upon which democracies, even representative democracies are operated.Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0
-
the point i m making is that no one knows the future and all this talk about the uk being governed by the tories for decades to come, should Corbyn get elected, is pure BS.
I think that Labour could be in a lot of difficulty anyway due to their stance on immigration. Unless things calm down a bit in parts of the Muslim world, the left in Europe will continue to lose working class votes.
(As soon as Stevo reads this, he'll be putting £3 in an envelope to send to Islamic State :P )
Reminds me - there's a big scam in Russia at the moment where criminals pose as wannabe IS joiners, receive the money IS send out to get recruits over the line and then keep it.
Unsurprisingly, IS don't really go to the fraud office to investigate it, so it never gets dealt with. Bahaha.
I read a similar thing about Chechen women signing up to become jihadi brides and then pocketing the money.
Let's just hope they never bump into any returning Chechen IS fighters.0 -
Sorry but that's just patronizing and what I dislike about the Euro and left wing view of the people that they are supposed to represent. And there is a big difference between 'any old law' and a decision that has a big impact on the future of the UK.Sometimes public don't know what's best for them.
You ask them to choose who to govern, not what rules to put in place.
Difference.
Otherwise you'd have a referendum on every bloody law, and that'd be a shambles."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Sure it's patronising. I'm basically saying I know better than joe public. I stand by that. So does most of the public when they talk about their own opinions.
That's why for issues which are fairly nuanced, which I believe this is, those who are in a position to understand it, and have the time to (i.e. MPs who are paid to, and who are held accountable by the public) which joe public won't, should decide.
I'd suggest the changes to the welfare state directly affect a lot more people than the EU membership does, and I don't see any cries anywhere that they should have had a referendum on that, and rightly so.
Nothing to do with being on the left. It's just the left who stand to lose on this particular argument.0 -
Was the referendum not in the Tories' manifesto? It would appear that the people decided they wanted to vote on EU membership. 0
-
In principle, I support referenda, but on the proviso that you actually have an informed debate beforehand, rather than a mixture of bland platitudes and hysterical screeching from politicians and the media.
On an unrelated matter, if the government's new tax rules really do kill off BTL in this country and see a load of properties come back onto the market as predicted by the Telegraph, I'll give Osborne a lot of credit for that.0 -
the problem with informed debate is its terminally uninteresting and unsexy. Let the braying masses and chattering classes have their time to bleat. Vox populi, vox dei.Fitter....healthier....more productive.....0
-
41 economists sign letter denying that Corbyn's economic plan would be a disaster.
Nobel prize winning economist supports Corbyn's anti-austerity policies.0 -
Corbyn is frightening the labour/tory light party to death, Stevo and all you other meddling tories get in there and vote for him you'll make me a happy man.
Hopefully then in 2020 we will be able to put this nation back on the right track, if not we can all look forward to more of the same, less well off masses carrying the can for the very well heeled very small minority. The fact is not a single one who you right wing tory tubthumping tossers who post on here are in that small minority.
You have your beliefs I have mine, however, I have a sense of social conscience and I know what is MORALLY right. If people reject it,hey-ho!Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
The drink won't heal the pain, Frank...Corbyn is frightening the labour/tory light party to death, Stevo and all you other meddling tories get in there and vote for him you'll make me a happy man.
Hopefully then in 2020 we will be able to put this nation back on the right track, if not we can all look forward to more of the same, less well off masses carrying the can for the very well heeled very small minority. The fact is not a single one who you right wing tory tubthumping tossers who post on here are in that small minority.
You have your beliefs I have mine, however, I have a sense of social conscience and I know what is MORALLY right. If people reject it,hey-ho!0 -
No drink, no pain my "tory tosser"
The drink won't heal the pain, Frank...Corbyn is frightening the labour/tory light party to death, Stevo and all you other meddling tories get in there and vote for him you'll make me a happy man.
Hopefully then in 2020 we will be able to put this nation back on the right track, if not we can all look forward to more of the same, less well off masses carrying the can for the very well heeled very small minority. The fact is not a single one who you right wing tory tubthumping tossers who post on here are in that small minority.
You have your beliefs I have mine, however, I have a sense of social conscience and I know what is MORALLY right. If people reject it,hey-ho! friend. Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
Let's see if I have that right?Sure it's patronising. I'm basically saying I know better than joe public. I stand by that. So does most of the public when they talk about their own opinions.
51% of the public think they know better than the other 49%.
Yup. That sounds about right.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
41 economists sign letter denying that Corbyn's economic plan would be a disaster.
Nobel prize winning economist supports Corbyn's anti-austerity policies.
Krugmans been saying for a long time that Austerity is contrary to a lot of Economic theory, his ideas being fundamentally that "countercyclical investment" is exactly what a government SHOULD do, and the cost of debt is driven much more by markets confidence in repayment than in the overall level of government indebtedness. Personally I think hes right, which is which its the sadder that most "anti-austerity" movements, for example Syriza in Greece and Podemos in Spain, are tied in to a collection of policies, and political management, which are just comical, for example Syriza deciding to "reclaim" the Nazi war debt. My issue is that anti-Austerity has become the Shibboleth of some really nutty radicals, who in normal times wouldn't be allowed within a hundred miles of the halls of power, with Corbyn leading that chargeFitter....healthier....more productive.....0 -
Frightening the Labour party to death? Yes.Corbyn is frightening the labour/tory light party to death, Stevo and all you other meddling tories get in there and vote for him you'll make me a happy man.
Hopefully then in 2020 we will be able to put this nation back on the right track, if not we can all look forward to more of the same, less well off masses carrying the can for the very well heeled very small minority. The fact is not a single one who you right wing tory tubthumping tossers who post on here are in that small minority.
You have your beliefs I have mine, however, I have a sense of social conscience and I know what is MORALLY right. If people reject it,hey-ho!
Frightening the Tory party to death? This thread suggests otherwise. Have a look on twitter at #toriesforcorbyn and see them quaking in their boots.
Put the two together and that should give you a clue as to how a large chunk of the electorate see this.
Anyway Frank, I've done my bit so you owe me "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Frightening the Labour party to death? Yes.
Frightening the Tory party to death? This thread suggests otherwise. Have a look on twitter at #toriesforcorbyn and see them quaking in their boots.
Once again, I repeat........... Careful what you wish for!!0 -
I heard you the first timeFrightening the Labour party to death? Yes.
Frightening the Tory party to death? This thread suggests otherwise. Have a look on twitter at #toriesforcorbyn and see them quaking in their boots.
Once again, I repeat........... Careful what you wish for!!
Despite me and some other tories voting for Corbyn, in the end it will be hard left wingers / militant trade union types that will tip the scales in his favour. And at the same time this small minority of hard lefties will convince themselves that they somehow have the electorate behind them and will actually be good for the country :roll: History is not on their side..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I think you are relying too much on history Stevo, the hard left had long since buggered of to places like TUSC and it seems to be a bogeyman that exists largely in your head. Corbyn is attracting support from people who think that loading students up with £10000's worth of debt isn't great for them or the long term future of the country, as well as creating such a housing shortage so that people are nearly 40 before they can afford to buy. Addressing those sort of issues really aren't radical left wing ideas, not even close, it's just how things have shifted.0
-
They are not really bogeymen, more harmless loons - harmless because they are unelectable.I think you are relying too much on history Stevo, the hard left had long since buggered of to places like TUSC and it seems to be a bogeyman that exists largely in your head. Corbyn is attracting support from people who think that loading students up with £10000's worth of debt isn't great for them or the long term future of the country, as well as creating such a housing shortage so that people are nearly 40 before they can afford to buy. Addressing those sort of issues really aren't radical left wing ideas, not even close, it's just how things have shifted.
If you think that enough people will turn to the hard left to solve the issue of high house prices or whatever other issues people face, in sufficient number to win the next election, that"s up to you. I don't think so, hence this threaf...."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
-
I think you are relying too much on history Stevo, the hard left had long since buggered of to places like TUSC and it seems to be a bogeyman that exists largely in your head. Corbyn is attracting support from people who think that loading students up with £10000's worth of debt isn't great for them or the long term future of the country, as well as creating such a housing shortage so that people are nearly 40 before they can afford to buy. Addressing those sort of issues really aren't radical left wing ideas, not even close, it's just how things have shifted.
That should read 'Conned into going to uni to pay for a degree that ain't worth a w@nk, in pursuit of an arbitrary government target of 50%'
Yes in an ideal world houses should be more affordable. Good luck to any politician who puts forward a manifesto, promising to crash the housing market though.0 -
41 economists sign letter denying that Corbyn's economic plan would be a disaster.
Nobel prize winning economist supports Corbyn's anti-austerity policies.
Alex Salmond had 2 Nobel Prize winning economists Professor Joseph Stiglitz and Professor Sir James Mirrlees on his Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group supporting currency union as best for rUK.
Didn't mean Jack Sh1t.0 -
41 economists sign letter denying that Corbyn's economic plan would be a disaster.
Nobel prize winning economist supports Corbyn's anti-austerity policies.
Alex Salmond had 2 Nobel Prize winning economists Professor Joseph Stiglitz and Professor Sir James Mirrlees on his Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group supporting currency union as best for rUK.
Didn't mean Jack Sh1t.
It might have been best from an economic viewpoint, but politically unacceptable. However, seeing as this scenario has never been tested, we'll never know whether it's feasible in practice.0 -
You mis-read Stevo
Frightening the Labour party to death? Yes.
Frightening the Tory party to death? This thread suggests otherwise. Have a look on twitter at #toriesforcorbyn and see them quaking in their boots.
When I wrote Labour/Tory light I was infering that Labour are Tory light.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
41 economists sign letter denying that Corbyn's economic plan would be a disaster.
Nobel prize winning economist supports Corbyn's anti-austerity policies.
Alex Salmond had 2 Nobel Prize winning economists Professor Joseph Stiglitz and Professor Sir James Mirrlees on his Scottish Government’s Fiscal Commission Working Group supporting currency union as best for rUK.
Didn't mean Jack Sh1t.
It might have been best from an economic viewpoint, but politically unacceptable. However, seeing as this scenario has never been tested, we'll never know whether it's feasible in practice.
My point was just because the opinion comes from a NP winner, it doesn't automatically make it fact. Hopefully we will never get to test the free spending theories of the likes of Corbyn either.0 -
An interesting paragraph from Finchy's link to the 41 economists.
The intervention comes as the Corbyn campaign reveals that a Labour government led by the MP for Islington North would reserve the right to renationalise Royal Bank of Scotland and other public assets, “with either no compensation or with any undervaluation deducted from any compensation for renationalisation”
So there you go. Anyone who thought about buying shares as an investment faces having them taken away like candy from a baby.
The Shropshire Chavez.0
