Millar and Boutling.
Comments
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I genuinely fear for the sanity of anyone who holds this opinion. I had to mute Eurosport's coverage of the other day's stage of the Dauphine as I couldn't stand to listen to Kirby's inane babble any longer. I've even had people who aren't cycling fans comment on how clueless he is.I
It reminded me of the video game talk throughs my son listens to on Youtube - a couple of blokes sat in front of a TV screen saying what they see lacking in any kind of passion, insight or commentators craft. The best make what is a difficult job sound the easiest thing in the world - this pair remind you that it is far from that. I'd rather listen to Kirby and big Maggy.
You can't seriously think that Millar's commentary lacks any kind of insight? He certainly offers up more than any other co-commentator I've heard, other than possibly Sean Kelly.
I use the example of Kirby to illustrate just how bad I thought Boulting was - not because I think Kirby is any good. Since Harmon went on his way cycling has been short of a really top class commentator although Hatch is threatening to change my mind about that, but Boulting is bottom of a pretty poor pile.
As for Millar - maybe I just tuned out his monotone and missed whatever insights he offered. I just don't think he has the personality for it.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Anybody who can find pleasure in a Kirby commentary should seek help. I'll agree that once, maybe twice, in a three week stage race he will say something genuinely funny but that can never compensate for the god awful experience of having to listen to him the rest of the time. Forget Kelly's palmares, his greatest achievement has been sitting in a commentary box with that clown for as long as he has. They must be paying him a fortune.0
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The only person I've ever seen before who likes Kirby, before Joel, was UCI Overlord.
Joel, are you Aaron?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
The only person I've ever seen before who likes Kirby, before Joel, was UCI Overlord.
Joel, are you Aaron?
"I am your father"
Darth Kirby said.
:shock:0 -
Hatch and Stephens is the duo I always hope for.
I defend commentators a lot, because it's a difficult job, but Kirby is a shambles. Vomiting stuff up whether it happens to be true, false, insightful, a complete lie, or just plain wrong, just so long as he can hear his own voice.
It's the fake knowledge that does my head in most. Kirby knows how good a descender every single rider in the peloton is. He just does. Cunego is obviously the best, but Kirby knows the rest too. Gert Dockx? Kirby knows.
He's a complete fraud.0 -
Kirby's quite lazy as well. His complete lack of research was evident when ahead of Catalunya in 2014 he was amazed to see Henao back in the Sky roster, despite him being 'on the naughty step' as he put it. He spent the first 20 mins of the broadcast wittering on about this sudden turn of events until it was pointed out by all and sundry (Rob Hatch on twitter I believe among them) that it was Sergio's cousin. Kirby was not aware Sky had two Henaos. Puts me in mind of a comedy sketch on a show called Only An Excuse that lampooned Denis Law gushing about the Dutch footballer De Boer and his ability to be everywhere "he's that good you'd think there was two of them" being the gist of the punchline.0
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I've been catching up on the ITV Dauphine highlights with high hopes, but I can't enjoy Ned's commentary at all. Its like the commentary equivalent of someone writing without paragraphs. It isn't radio commentary - we can see the riders.
I think the most awkward part of it is when Millar spots something and then Ned just shouts over him as if he has to 'take charge'. I like Ned as an anchor but his commentary style is a bit too relentless for me.0 -
I've noticed that Boulting/Millar don't do much of the cheese/wine/geography/geology/history side of things which I enjoy during the quieter moments of a race. Maybe difficult to do that from a broom cupboard in London but still.0
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I've noticed that Boulting/Millar don't do much of the cheese/wine/geography/geology/history side of things which I enjoy during the quieter moments of a race. Maybe difficult to do that from a broom cupboard in London but still.
As far as I know, pretty much every Eurosport commentary bar Paris-Nice, the Tour and Tour of Turkey comes from an industrial estate in SW London - Kirby just makes it up if not actually there. I think some races have produced a kind of tourism guide - the road book perhaps? - for TV as well - the commentators certainly know what scenic shots are coming up and will have a bit of blurb to read as they do. The other day in the Dauphine the helicopter was grounded for a bit but they still had the scenic shots as they'd been pre-filmed.0 -
On occasions we can get what is known as 'Chateau Lag' where the commentator reading out the tourist information is out of sync with the picturesI think some races have produced a kind of tourism guide - the road book perhaps? - for TV as well - the commentators certainly know what scenic shots are coming up and will have a bit of blurb to read as they do.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Much prefer the Millar/Boulting combo and think they are getting better as time goes on. However, the downside of the ITV4 cover seems to be the length of the adverts. I haven't put a stopwatch on them but they seems much longer than the Eurosport ones.“You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”
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Much prefer the Millar/Boulting combo and think they are getting better as time goes on. However, the downside of the ITV4 cover seems to be the length of the adverts. I haven't put a stopwatch on them but they seems much longer than the Eurosport ones.
It's not the length of the adverts, it's the contents. Is all daytime TV like this? It really is like watching the end of civilisation. Adverts for various scams, or shit no one can possibly want or need. Eurosport not much better.0 -
I always liked Kirbys style of commentating on eurosport from his motorsport commentating, because it was perfectly suited to the long lonely night stints he used to do on the Le Mans 24hrs, when all you had was some flakey incar footage of car bombing down the Mulsanne at 200mph+ in the pitch black, and Kirby and his co commentators would wax lyrically for hours about France, food, wine, bit of history, the race, occasionally mention lead changes, but keep you entertained till the sun started coming up again and the day crew swapped in.
he kind of trys to do the same approach for calling the cycling, which kind of works when theres not much going on, on a boring stage and he's identifying cows in fields and mountain vultures flying around and reading the race tourist guides, and kind of doesnt when the race ramps up to the finish and he suddenly does that shouty nonsense talking over the expert,misidentifying the riders and doesnt have that back knowledge of pro-cycling races to do anything other than "read the pictures" kind of thing.
so I dont know, I preferred Millar and Neds highlights commentating to Kirby this time round but think Ned is better at the writing, linking bits of the programmes together, not the fulltime commentating gig.0 -
I always liked Kirbys style of commentating on eurosport from his motorsport commentating, because it was perfectly suited to the long lonely night stints he used to do on the Le Mans 24hrs, when all you had was some flakey incar footage of car bombing down the Mulsanne at 200mph+ in the pitch black, and Kirby and his co commentators would wax lyrically for hours about France, food, wine, bit of history, the race, occasionally mention lead changes, but keep you entertained till the sun started coming up again and the day crew swapped in.
Why were you watching this anyway?
he kind of trys to do the same approach for calling the cycling, which kind of works when theres not much going on, on a boring stage and he's identifying cows in fields and mountain vultures flying around and reading the race tourist guides, and kind of doesnt when the race ramps up to the finish and he suddenly does that shouty nonsense talking over the expert,misidentifying the riders and doesnt have that back knowledge of pro-cycling races to do anything other than "read the pictures" kind of thing.
so I dont know, I preferred Millar and Neds highlights commentating to Kirby this time round but think Ned is better at the writing, linking bits of the programmes together, not the fulltime commentating gig.0 -
I watch le mans.
To be honest, I watch sport for, well, y'know, the sport.
If I want to hear stories about French food & wine, I'd watch one of the many many over-produced food programs there are - y'know, the ones who all use the amelie soundtrack in some 'homely' looking kitchen which costs a few million to build where everything is magically washed up and cleared away.
If the reason you like commentators for their ability to talk about food & wine, it begs the question, why are you watching it in the first place?0 -
Chateau watch - in the past I've watched a stage live on Eurosport, then highlights on ITV4. The chateau spiel was identical, both sets of commentators clearly reading from race generated info.
Adverts - much prefer the adverts on Eurosport, seem more European than PPI/payday loans stuff on itv4. Helps set the scene. Think that might be a sign I need to get out more. Quite intrigued by Bora cooker extractors.
Ned and Dave are getting better at the job. I like Ned, have liked his fall guy role to Chris Boardman on the highlights show. The itv4 tdf podcast is brilliant for the whole immerse yourself in the race for 3 weeks thing. Matt Stephens has become a pretty sharp commentator , but that has only come with time. Carlton is woeful, leaving aside his bluffing, inability to call a race, inability to identify riders etc , my main gripe is why does he get so excited and shouty at the end of every stage? 99% of the time it is completely unecessary, makes me worry about his blood pressure.0 -
ITV again again today - if they are getting better at the job thank Christ I haven't tuned in before this weekend! They talk non-stop, Boulting basically giving a radio commentary just saying what he sees in far too much detail while Millar uses the same mumbling monotone for the most mundane and the most vital of incidents.
It is actually difficult to concentrate on what they are saying - it's like driving on a motorway and suddenly you realise you have travelled another 10 miles and can't recall them at all - they are the commentary equivalent of elevator music. Above all though they take it all so bloody seriously. It's a bike race commentary not a lecture on the root causes of world poverty - at least Kirby for all his faults realises that it's a sport and something to be enjoyed.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I've enjoyed the IOM TT racing.I watch le mans.
To be honest, I watch sport for, well, y'know, the sport.
I can only take Boulting in small doses but Millar is so much more informative than Magnus Bäckstedt for reading the race details.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
I've enjoyed the IOM TT racing.I watch le mans.
To be honest, I watch sport for, well, y'know, the sport.
I can only take Boulting in small doses but Millar is so much more informative than Magnus Bäckstedt for reading the race details.
I don't think Boulting is a natural commentator - although his career to date suggests that he's capable of learning on the job - and would agree with you about Millar. Even when he was riding he seemed keen to explain about the tactical side of racing in interviews and his own writings (I remember a blog written in his first or second season back from the ban that was hugely informative), and he's bringing that attitude towards his commentary.0 -
Above all though they take it all so bloody seriously. It's a bike race commentary not a lecture on the root causes of world poverty - at least Kirby for all his faults realises that it's a sport and something to be enjoyed.
Absolutely spot on, Millar was making the race/racing sound very complicated, casual viewers would be getting very confused.
As regards Kirby, I have always liked him. I think of him as the cycling version of Murray Walker, makes loads of co*k ups , but he has a good voice and can make a difference when the racing becomes a bit quiet.. a typical chatterbox.
Brian Smith doesn't get much of a mention, but seems to a good job0 -
Above all though they take it all so bloody seriously. It's a bike race commentary not a lecture on the root causes of world poverty - at least Kirby for all his faults realises that it's a sport and something to be enjoyed.
Absolutely spot on, Millar was making the race/racing sound very complicated, casual viewers would be getting very confused.
Conversely, that's exactly why i like him.
I'm not a casual viewer, and i don't want things dumbed down to that level.
A good part of the enjoyment that is derived from bike racing is understanding all this complexity.0 -
Don't think Millar made it sound complicated at all, he just pointed out the strategic thinking behind what was going on.
No different to any strategic sport - a great example was the the Americas Cup coverage last time around when Sky took the full "media package" including the tactical stuff and a great many non-sailors started to understand exactly why particular decisions were made on board the boats (and could see them panning out in front of them).Trail fun - Transition Bandit
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I don't want things dumbed down either - I'm with you on that - even if I watch a sport I have no knowledge about I don't want it explained to me I'd much rather learn the nuances as I go along. That's one of the things I actually dislike about Boulting - he does try to explain everything - the other thing is he tries to use too many adjectives - he sounds like he's trying to commentate whereas the best make it sound natural - he's talking about what we are watching whilst the best are part of what we are watching.
I'll give you an example from a race a while back. The cameras suddenly switched to half a dozen or more riders on the deck, others taking to the fields to try and get round them etc - common enough occurence . Harmon just leaves 3-4 seconds silence, then a "helllooo", couple of seconds silence, then "bit of cyclocross?", then I think Kelly chips in with a bit of dry humour.
Now Kirby would go ballistic straight off misidentify a couple of the riders scream how their race is over etc, Boulting would start trying to explain how the crash may have happened, attribute blame, the repercussions for the riders, the difficulties in getting back to the bunch, how the commissaires may or may not penalise riders for draughting team cars etc etc.
For those familiar with the Barry Davies commentary when Franny Lee scored the winner for Derby against Man City in 74/75 - "interesting....verrry interesting...look at his face, just look at his face" - it's on youtube anyway. He's not describing what he sees at all but it's fantastic commentary - that's what I mean - a good commentator is bringing colour to the event not giving a droning description of what we can all see anyway.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Great points DeVlaeminck... that was what made Benaud great. He never told you what was in front of your eyes, he tried to add to it.
Kirby is, unfortunately, a witless buffoon unable to discriminate between telling me what I need to know and what I can already see. There are a few occasions where his gibbon-like hooting fit the moment (Keisse's tour of Turkey win being the only one I can think of now), but often times it just leaves him nowhere to go when something genuinely important/exciting happens."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
From the little I saw (ITV are getting good at blocking hola) I thought Boulting and Millar were as good as the "second string" ES commentator. Boulting needs to work on bringing stuff out of Millar and rider identification a bit but that will come. I suspect that the reality is that he is keeping the seat warm for a future person and he ll go back to being the interviewer/presenter. You can't really complain about Millar being bland given Kelly
I'm getting more convinced that, given that Harmon left ES rather abruptly, they did nt have a great deal of choice and so Kirby got thrown in at the deep end and is now holding the fort whilst the "second string" commentators (Hatch, Stephens etc) learn the ropes and can become full time commentators when they re ready - a lot like OGE are doing with the Yates brothers. They are much much better at it than Kirby. We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
Hatch and Millar would be the dream team but Ned does a reasonable job and I think will improve given time.0
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Instead of complaining about the commentator, wouldn't your complaints be better aimed at British Eurosport for only showing 30 minute highlights of the Tour of Switzerland this evening.I'm not getting old... I'm just using lower gears......
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Ned and David have definitely got the gig for the tour. The two Phil's have been removed.
I really like both Ned and David, but I hope they get better as they both seem to shout and talk over each other0 -
Instead of complaining about the commentator, wouldn't your complaints be better aimed at British Eurosport for only showing 30 minute highlights of the Tour of Switzerland this evening.
Can complain about both.
We're lucky we get any TdS.
There was a time not that long ago when it was not broadcast in the UK at all.0 -
Instead of complaining about the commentator, wouldn't your complaints be better aimed at British Eurosport for only showing 30 minute highlights of the Tour of Switzerland this evening.
Can complain about both.
We're lucky we get any TdS.
There was a time not that long ago when it was not broadcast in the UK at all.
As well as the 30 mins at 7pm, there's 1 hour scheduled at 11pm if anyone is still up then.0
