Millar and Boutling.
Comments
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It does sound a bit like a voiceover rather than commentary - I keep expecting Ned to say "and now we hand you over to our commentary team..." - but it is vastly superior to listening to Kirby. I suppose that's to be expected when that is what Boulting is used to doing up until now. They do seem to have a good working relationship - Millar is happy to correct Ned when he gets it wrong and Ned seems happy to bow to his superior knowledge (contrast with Kirby who seems unable to accept he ever makes mistakes).
I've just been watching the ITV highlights rather than the Eurosport coverage as they are doing their usual good job putting the package together.
In the highlights show some of it gets corrected. Ned struggled with with one of the sprint calls early in the race and when I watched the highlights he's had time to voice over and identify other riders, I don't have a problem with that.
It just goes to show what an art calling a live sprint is.0 -
I like the way we have it mixed up these days.... you get tired of anyone if its just them forever and a day.
plus they as commentators stay fresher mentally.
Kirby, what a chancer ....to give him some credit it has faked his way in there and despite understanding fff alll does actually recognise the riders quite well.
odd choice thou..."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
On a side issue, the other tick that must go in the ITV box is the scheduled coverage.
They stick to theirs while Eurosports is all over the place, especially when preceded by clay court tennis.
A couple of the major Giro mountain stages got severely cut by RG matches and they still had the cheek to open up with the ironically named "Giro Extra"."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
I'm no Carlton Kirby fan but he is genuinely funny on this GCN video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UyVkc1JrHs.0
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One thing about Kirby was his constant referencing of Damiano Cunego. now that he's no longer a top tier rider, I guess thats one thing, though he'll be replaced no doubt.. I actually don't mind him.
The other thing was Kirby did a christmas or year end do for our club last year, he was genuinely funny and very engaging, but you do get the view that sometimes the mouth goes on autopilot whilst the brains not engaged. his quips about Sean kelly telling him to shut up were very funny and his meltdown when Iljo Keise won the tour of turkey stage was hilarious.
so for comedy value he's good. I think with a bit of work Millar and boulting will be successful. I still think Millar thinks he can do Pro cycling as well. he keeps refferring to Garmin cannondale as his team... the old sentimentalist.0 -
[url=http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=19622613#p19622613]Blazing Saddles[/url] wrote:On a side issue, the other tick that must go in the ITV box is the scheduled coverage.
They stick to theirs while Eurosports is all over the place, especially when preceded by clay court tennis.
A couple of the major Giro mountain stages got severely cut by RG matches and they still had the cheek to open up with the ironically named "Giro Extra".
Plus you get better production values, a bespoke theme tune (albeit dreadful - sounds like a techno version of KISS " I was made for loving you baby), a nice wee intro from Imlach/ Boardman with a recap on the prior day's action, and of course no embarrasingly dubbed adverts for Bora's "revolutionary" extractor fan, or heaven forbid, Salice "Made from Sport"* .Altogether a vastly superior viewing experience.
*NB I know Euro adverts, Merida/ Various Eastern European holiday hotspots, hunky dope fend Richard Virenque for Festina have a certain charm but it gets oldGiant Trance X 2010
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I have avoided ITV for years, courtesy of the two clowns Phil L and Paul S. However, very happy about David Millar's involvement. I'm not Boulting's biggest fan by a long stretch, but on balance if Millar hangs around then I'll probably switch from Eurosport.
As someone has said already, Kirby sometimes does well for the chuckle factor (e.g. the running race up the Eiffel Tower), but his catchphrases - I'll be bound, cast asunder, and SHOUTING AT THE FINISH LINE - wear pretty thin after a while.0 -
Apologies for the typo but here's my Kirby-inspired bingo game.
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I'm generally a Eurosport man but as they didn't have live coverage of the Dauphine today it was ITV4 - first experience of Millar and Boulting today. Now I've read a lot of positive comments about them on this forum but if today was typical I can't for the life of me see what people are liking.
It reminded me of the video game talk throughs my son listens to on Youtube - a couple of blokes sat in front of a TV screen saying what they see lacking in any kind of passion, insight or commentators craft. The best make what is a difficult job sound the easiest thing in the world - this pair remind you that it is far from that. I'd rather listen to Kirby and big Maggy.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I genuinely fear for the sanity of anyone who holds this opinion. I had to mute Eurosport's coverage of the other day's stage of the Dauphine as I couldn't stand to listen to Kirby's inane babble any longer. I've even had people who aren't cycling fans comment on how clueless he is.I
It reminded me of the video game talk throughs my son listens to on Youtube - a couple of blokes sat in front of a TV screen saying what they see lacking in any kind of passion, insight or commentators craft. The best make what is a difficult job sound the easiest thing in the world - this pair remind you that it is far from that. I'd rather listen to Kirby and big Maggy.
You can't seriously think that Millar's commentary lacks any kind of insight? He certainly offers up more than any other co-commentator I've heard, other than possibly Sean Kelly.0 -
Kirby is so very, very, very bad. He's like a rubbish quality local radio DJ babbling repetitive nonsense and chuckling at his own pathetic jokes and catchphrases. I can't stand it. It's cringeworthy. My heart sinks when I tune into a race and he's on the mic.
I think Ned and Dave have been excellent. Dave's insight is the sort of thing I like to listen to, even when there's not much going on he can bring the situation to life by explaining the mindset of the riders or the tactics that are at play. It's fascinating.0 -
The thing is, for a reasonably knowledgeable fan the commentator is a waste of space as they tend to just tell you what you can see is happening. This is where Kirby really fails as he just goes on and on and on.... which leaves little room for the expert.
The expert is the one who adds value by providing insight on what you can see (for yourself) is happening.
In this I agree Sean Kelly is pretty good, but Millar is a bit more up to date, and knows the current riders well. I also personally like his slightly laconic style.
Boulting is a lot more understated than Kirby, knows a bit more about cycling, and is more likely not to interrupt Millar with some inane drivel.
So generally the commentator that says as little as possible is the best
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I watched ITV4 today.
For about 10 minutes.
Kirby is excellent in comparison, and don't think that I don't like Ned as I do. Kirby, like all commentators gets things wrong, but he is enthusiastic, enjoyable and a very nice way to spend an afternoon.
I'd listen to him over all of the other alternatives without fail.0 -
Christ. Really wish you wouldn't say that.
It's like when Russia says that there is no war going on in Ukraine when there quite obviously is. Forces people who are trying to be balanced to say it is an 'opinion' and make out like it's a valid position to have ,when, clearly, it isn't.
Eurosport people will google the feedback and they'll think you're opinion counts, when clearly, since it's patently wrong, it shouldn't.
How on earth can you think that's good commentary? What about it is good?
Maybe this is why you seem to be at odds often with people on the forum - i.e. they're seeing what's actually happening, and you're seeing it in the same way Kirby is i.e. watching some alternative reality race.0 -
I'm generally a Eurosport man but as they didn't have live coverage of the Dauphine today it was ITV4 - first experience of Millar and Boulting today. Now I've read a lot of positive comments about them on this forum but if today was typical I can't for the life of me see what people are liking.
The tennis finished early so in the end we got it.0 -
I think the best combination would be Rob Hatch & David Millar. (I'd have Kirby as the third man - he used to be really good in that role when Harmon was the main man).
I like Ned Boulting. Good interviewer and presenter. Books are good. But he's not a commentator.Twitter: @RichN950 -
As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:I'm not getting old... I'm just using lower gears......
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As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Agree. If there was one that stood out then I could understand, but for me I just like the way Kirby commentates, like Benaud in Cricket and Aliss in Golf (although he is a chump) he keeps it going for hours very skilfully. With a touch of Murray Walker thrown in. Hatch is dull, Quigley is ok, P&P talk to us as if we're 5 year olds, Ned as stated above is fine as a frontman and writer but he isn't a commentator.
I'm not one to follow the crowd Mr Chasey, I say what I think and if people disagree then so be it.
I'd happily have Kirby over for dinner as I think he'd be a laugh.0 -
As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Agree. If there was one that stood out then I could understand, but for me I just like the way Kirby commentates, like Benaud in Cricket and Aliss in Golf (although he is a chump) he keeps it going for hours very skilfully. With a touch of Murray Walker thrown in. Hatch is dull, Quigley is ok, P&P talk to us as if we're 5 year olds, Ned as stated above is fine as a frontman and writer but he isn't a commentator.
I'm not one to follow the crowd Mr Chasey, I say what I think and if people disagree then so be it.
I'd happily have Kirby over for dinner as I think he'd be a laugh.
The Benaud/Aliss/Walker commentator for cycling was Phil Liggett. He has that status in cycling. He declined when he and Sherwen had to pander to the US market. He was a pro and did it - but the commentary suffered. And Sherwen just became a catchphrase jukebox.
But Liggett's 1987 commentary for the Tour La Plagne stage is seminal. "Just who is that rider coming up behind? Because that looks like Roche. It looks like Stephen Roche. It's Stephen Roche."
That's the "they think it's all over" of cycling commentary.
I don't mind Kirby as I don't really pay much attention to the commentary. As I have said in the past, I view it in much the same way as music in a film.Twitter: @RichN950 -
As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Agree. If there was one that stood out then I could understand, but for me I just like the way Kirby commentates, like Benaud in Cricket and Aliss in Golf (although he is a chump) he keeps it going for hours very skilfully. With a touch of Murray Walker thrown in. Hatch is dull, Quigley is ok, P&P talk to us as if we're 5 year olds, Ned as stated above is fine as a frontman and writer but he isn't a commentator.
I'm not one to follow the crowd Mr Chasey, I say what I think and if people disagree then so be it.
I'd happily have Kirby over for dinner as I think he'd be a laugh.
The Benaud/Aliss/Walker commentator for cycling was Phil Liggett. He has that status in cycling. He declined when he and Sherwen had to pander to the US market. He was a pro and did it - but the commentary suffered. And Sherwen just became a catchphrase jukebox. But Liggett's 1987 commentary for the Tour La Plagne stage is seminal.
I don't mind Kirby as I don't really pay much attention to the commentary. As I have said in the past, I view it in much the same way as music in a film.
Agreed Rich. Like the analogy.0 -
As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Agree. If there was one that stood out then I could understand, but for me I just like the way Kirby commentates, like Benaud in Cricket and Aliss in Golf (although he is a chump) he keeps it going for hours very skilfully. With a touch of Murray Walker thrown in. Hatch is dull, Quigley is ok, P&P talk to us as if we're 5 year olds, Ned as stated above is fine as a frontman and writer but he isn't a commentator.
I'm not one to follow the crowd Mr Chasey, I say what I think and if people disagree then so be it.
I'd happily have Kirby over for dinner as I think he'd be a laugh.
Joel jumps the shark right here.0 -
As long as there is cycling on television I don't care a toss who the commentator is. If folks on this forum are as knowledgeable as they make out (and I doubt if they are) why should it bother you if the commentator gets it wrong occasionally.
Bask in the satisfaction that you know better.... :roll: :roll: :roll:
Agree. If there was one that stood out then I could understand, but for me I just like the way Kirby commentates, like Benaud in Cricket and Aliss in Golf (although he is a chump) he keeps it going for hours very skilfully. With a touch of Murray Walker thrown in. Hatch is dull, Quigley is ok, P&P talk to us as if we're 5 year olds, Ned as stated above is fine as a frontman and writer but he isn't a commentator.
I'm not one to follow the crowd Mr Chasey, I say what I think and if people disagree then so be it.
I'd happily have Kirby over for dinner as I think he'd be a laugh.
Joel jumps the shark right here.
Not sure I want to take him home, maybe after his miraculous Tour performance...0 -
I edited since your reply.Agreed Rich. Like the analogy.
With regards to Liggett - he is now persona non-grata for some due to his defence of Armstrong. But for us who were around in the 80s he was the man. And while we may think he's past it, we still have respect for him.
Have a watch of the 1987 La Plagne stage. One of the all time great stages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgXQ3zPSN4Twitter: @RichN950 -
I edited since your reply.Agreed Rich. Like the analogy.
With regards to Liggett - he is now persona non-grata for some due to his defence of Armstrong. But for us who were around in the 80s he was the man. And while we may think he's past it, we still have respect for him.
Have a watch of the 1987 La Plagne stage. One of the all time great stages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgXQ3zPSN4
I don't dislike him, Armstrong support included, and I understand what you're saying about him pandering to the US Market. I've seen plenty of Liggett and I agree that his old commentary was excellent. Now he spends half the time explaining 1+1 and getting confused.0 -
To me Phil Liggett is like a great band or a great film director who has produced classics that are part of your fabric, but now are churning out crap.
I edited since your reply.Agreed Rich. Like the analogy.
With regards to Liggett - he is now persona non-grata for some due to his defence of Armstrong. But for us who were around in the 80s he was the man. And while we may think he's past it, we still have respect for him.
Have a watch of the 1987 La Plagne stage. One of the all time great stages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgXQ3zPSN4
I don't dislike him, Armstrong support included, and I understand what you're saying about him pandering to the US Market. I've seen plenty of Liggett and I agree that his old commentary was excellent. Now he spends half the time explaining 1+1 and getting confused.
We excuse Spielberg for the likes of The Terminal, The Lost World and Indiana Jones 4 because of all the great things he's given us.
And believe me, that Crystal Skull Shite cut me to the core. I would say that was the biggest pissing on a cinematic legacy ever if it wasn't for Harvey Keitel whoring one of the 90s greatest films in every ad break.Twitter: @RichN950 -
To me Phil Liggett is like a great band or a great film director who has produced classics that are part of your fabric, but now are churning out crap.
I edited since your reply.Agreed Rich. Like the analogy.
With regards to Liggett - he is now persona non-grata for some due to his defence of Armstrong. But for us who were around in the 80s he was the man. And while we may think he's past it, we still have respect for him.
Have a watch of the 1987 La Plagne stage. One of the all time great stages: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qgXQ3zPSN4
I don't dislike him, Armstrong support included, and I understand what you're saying about him pandering to the US Market. I've seen plenty of Liggett and I agree that his old commentary was excellent. Now he spends half the time explaining 1+1 and getting confused.
We excuse Spielberg for the likes of The Terminal, The Lost World and Indiana Jones 4 because of all the great things he's given us
Yep, and you have to understand that if it wasn't for Armstrong then Phil would not have been anywhere near as successful or as in demand. I don't blame him like I don't blame the dopers. It's just how it is. That doesn't mean I like Armstrong and doesn't mean I respect Liggett any less, as you say he is part of the fabric.0 -
Sorry, but that's nonsense. I first saw the Tour on TV in 1986. Liggett was commentating. And he wasn't a beginner. Armstrong wasn't a major player until 1999 (when Eurosport was up and running with Duffield). That's 13 years. He was the English language voice of cycling before Armstrong.Yep, and you have to understand that if it wasn't for Armstrong then Phil would not have been anywhere near as successful or as in demand.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Anyway, bedtime for me. Got to inject one of the cats I look after at 7am tomorrow. Insulin, so can't be late. Poor sausage, but never causes a fuss. Far more important than Kirby or Quigley to be fair.0
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Sorry, but that's nonsense. I first saw the Tour on TV in 1986. Liggett was commentating. And he wasn't a beginner. Armstrong wasn't a major player until 1999 (when Eurosport was up and running with Duffield). That's 13 years. He was the English language voice of cycling before Armstrong.Yep, and you have to understand that if it wasn't for Armstrong then Phil would not have been anywhere near as successful or as in demand.
And he has done very well since too, especially in the US.0 -
Argh you're killing me.
There are instances where I have genuinely got so irritated with his horrendous commentary where I've just turned the thing off. TV wasn't showing what was going on (as can happen), and he was telling stuff that was blatantly incorrect, even despite the tiny bit of information that was available.
It's seriously awful and reduces my enjoyment of coverage significantly - and I spend a lot of time watching the stuff so this matters to me!
How can the fact he get's stuff so constantly wrong not irritate you?
How can his 'enthusiasm' and aggressive hyperbole inflation not grate - especially when he's getting over-excited about stuff that there is nothing to be excited about?
How can his constant repetition of nonsensical phrases not irritate you?
How, when there finally is something going on, he's busy talking about some horrendous anecdote that makes me cringe sitting on my sofa?
I literally refuse to believe someone who actually likes cycling can stand that. Either you're winding me up, you don't actually listen to it, or you live with the fairies and feed your imaginary friend actual bacon sandwiches, with red and brown sauce, because it is just intolerable.
It's not about you not following the herd. It's just me not being able to fathom how, in any circumstance, his commentary is preferable to silence. I find it that awful.0
