BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

kingstonian

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Where Lux falls down is that its a small place with a much smaller talent pool and not a lot of draw from a lifestyle pov unless you like a very quiet life.

This. Luxembourg is not a threat to London.

Frankfurt is, longer term from an FS perspective.

Yep, we wrote the same thing above but you posted while I was writing mine. Frankfurt is probably the closest competition, although it is still a relatively small and dull place compared to London with higher taxes and less Labour force flexibility.[/quote]


The moment the U.S. banks get acquainted with German labour laws will be the moment they shy away from Frankfurt as their hub.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

I had thought about that scenario as well, but if parliament refuses to carry out the democratic will of the people then we really would be in uncharted waters. Especially as no other party apart from UKIP would have MPs differently disposed overall towards BREXIT.

rick_chasey

Also, if Cameron did actually say about not wanting to take on the negotiations only to pass it on to the next leader 'I'm not going to do the hard sh!t' then all that chat about his legacy being tarnished is sounding pretty bang on.

mr_goo

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

What did I say earlier in the week Rick? I shall repeat myself for the benefit of the few. The referendum is not binding.
However it would be political suicide for any one or any party not to carry out the will of the people in what was a democratic process.
Already David Lammy (Lab) is calling for it to be blocked and ignored by the HoC.

Therefore in conclusion. Article 50 might not be activated. The House of Commons will vote the Referendum down and declare it as a 'Check on the lay of the land with the proletariat'. And the UK and the EU can go on their merry way hand in hand.

And that everyone is the end of democracy as we know it.

orraloon

Well if the UK version of democracy means that a bunch of knuckle dragging benefits junkies can xxxx over the economic prospects of the hard working taxpayers in this country, then so be it.

We can all wave two fingers to whoever we choose.

verylonglegs

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

What did I say earlier in the week Rick? I shall repeat myself for the benefit of the few. The referendum is not binding.
However it would be political suicide for any one or any party not to carry out the will of the people in what was a democratic process.
Already David Lammy (Lab) is calling for it to be blocked and ignored by the HoC.

Therefore in conclusion. Article 50 might not be activated. The House of Commons will vote the Referendum down and declare it as a 'Check on the lay of the land with the proletariat'. And the UK and the EU can go on their merry way hand in hand.

And that everyone is the end of democracy as we know it.

Not for the Conservatives necessarily. A lot of leave voters were from the north who wouldn't vote Tory in a million years anyway so how would ignoring their will hurt them? This is why it's such a clusterfuck, there are people who have crossed party boundaries in this referendum without even realising it or why.

Stevo_666

orraloon wrote:

Well if the UK version of democracy means that a bunch of knuckle dragging benefits junkies can xxxx over the economic prospects of the hard working taxpayers in this country, then so be it.

We can all wave two fingers to whoever we choose.

Never knew we had 17 million knuckle dragging benefits junkies.

Lookyhere

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

What did I say earlier in the week Rick? I shall repeat myself for the benefit of the few. The referendum is not binding.
However it would be political suicide for any one or any party not to carry out the will of the people in what was a democratic process.
Already David Lammy (Lab) is calling for it to be blocked and ignored by the HoC.

Therefore in conclusion. Article 50 might not be activated. The House of Commons will vote the Referendum down and declare it as a 'Check on the lay of the land with the proletariat'. And the UK and the EU can go on their merry way hand in hand.

And that everyone is the end of democracy as we know it.

yes would be interesting to ignore democracy but what about the 16 million who voted IN, what is democratic about ignoring their wishes ?

at least the losing side in a GE get an opposition voice and chance to fight again 5 years later.

rick_chasey

Ja looky the IN lost.

Pross

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

What did I say earlier in the week Rick? I shall repeat myself for the benefit of the few. The referendum is not binding.
However it would be political suicide for any one or any party not to carry out the will of the people in what was a democratic process.
Already David Lammy (Lab) is calling for it to be blocked and ignored by the HoC.

Therefore in conclusion. Article 50 might not be activated. The House of Commons will vote the Referendum down and declare it as a 'Check on the lay of the land with the proletariat'. And the UK and the EU can go on their merry way hand in hand.
I
And that everyone is the end of democracy as we know it.

Whilst I don't think you can justifiably give a referendum then overrule the result I'm not sure it would be political suicide given:

a) other than UKIP an overrule would probably involve members of virtually all parties so who do you move your vote to?
b) the vote was very nearly 50-50 and so nearly half the electorate would be happy to see this happen
c) of those who voted out there appear to be a few having regrets or suddenly appreciating the enormity of the decision. It appears a fair few were making some kind of protest vote and were relying on others ensuring we stayed in.

Also, does it have to get through the Lords? Who knows what they will do but I guess they can be ignored if necessary.

rick_chasey

If the lords kick it out it'll be the last thing they ever do. That won't happen.

briantrumpet

verylonglegs wrote:

This is why it's such a clusterfuck, there are people who have crossed party boundaries in this referendum without even realising it or why.

A sobering thought that every single one of those 17m X's might end up costing several million £s.

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

If the lords kick it out it'll be the last thing they ever do. That won't happen.

Not sure about that, it would get the Commons what the majority of them want and they can blame it on unelected Lords.

rick_chasey

this is the kind of stuff that I was banging on about beforehand.

mr_goo

Lookyhere wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

The tory leadership election will be curious, given plenty of the rank-and-file Tory members did NOT vote out, and article 50 isn't legally binding, nor will it have been enacted...

Furthermore, if it becomes clear over the weeks and months that Brexit would genuinely cause the breakup of the UK, then which leader would be willing to take that on?

What did I say earlier in the week Rick? I shall repeat myself for the benefit of the few. The referendum is not binding.
However it would be political suicide for any one or any party not to carry out the will of the people in what was a democratic process.
Already David Lammy (Lab) is calling for it to be blocked and ignored by the HoC.

Therefore in conclusion. Article 50 might not be activated. The House of Commons will vote the Referendum down and declare it as a 'Check on the lay of the land with the proletariat'. And the UK and the EU can go on their merry way hand in hand.

And that everyone is the end of democracy as we know it.

yes would be interesting to ignore democracy but what about the 16 million who voted IN, what is democratic about ignoring their wishes ?

at least the losing side in a GE get an opposition voice and chance to fight again 5 years later.

You wouldn't think that if the result had been 52% Remain / 48% Leave would you?

Garry H

What's going on with that dude's hair?

Ben6899

Rick Chasey wrote:

this is the kind of stuff that I was banging on about beforehand.

Someone must recognise this coont. Get it all over social media, weed out the cowardly, xenophobic fuck3r.

briantrumpet

Ben6899 wrote:

Someone must recognise this coont. Get it all over social media, weed out the cowardly, xenophobic fuck3r.

I'm guessing he'd be quite happy if he did get his xenophobic message spread even further, or he'd not be wearing that T-shirt.

rick_chasey

From the guardian liveblog (reported elsewhere)

Police are investigating suspected post-referendum racism after hate mail aimed at the Polish community was allegedly distributed in Cambridgeshire.

Laminated cards reading “Leave the EU - no more Polish vermin” were found in Huntingdon, north west of Cambridge.

The Polish language newspaper, Nasze Strony, reports on the incident and on the fact that the cards even had a translation in Polish on the reverse.

Teachers at a school near to where some of the cards were found yesterday reportedly threw them away but more were left on a path leading to it later.

Inspector Nick Percival of Cambridgeshire Constabulary told the Guardian that police were aware of the incident.

He added: “We are aware of it and have had a report from a member of the public. We are following up are taking it seriously as it does represent a hate crime. We would encourage anyone who is either a victim or is aware of the source of this to come forward.”

bramstoker

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-ve ... mod=e2tweu

finchy

Rick Chasey wrote:

this is the kind of stuff that I was banging on about beforehand.

I'm friends with a few rather large Slavs. I wonder how quickly he'd cover that t-shirt up if he saw them approaching.

finchy

Pross wrote:

c) of those who voted out there appear to be a few having regrets or suddenly appreciating the enormity of the decision. It appears a fair few were making some kind of protest vote and were relying on others ensuring we stayed in.

Yes, I do wonder if we'll end up having a second vote. Boris Johnson looks like he's thinking "oh f**k, we actually won, I wasn't expecting that, now what am I supposed to do?"

Stevo_666

bramstoker wrote:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383?mod=e2tweu

Good article.

bobmcstuff

Stevo 666 wrote:

bramstoker wrote:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383?mod=e2tweu

Good article.

It is the jet-set graduates versus the working class

My entire arse it is - graduates on the whole are not jet setters. That entire argument is false.

Lookyhere

Lookyhere wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

yes would be interesting to ignore democracy but what about the 16 million who voted IN, what is democratic about ignoring their wishes ?

at least the losing side in a GE get an opposition voice and chance to fight again 5 years later.

You wouldn't think that if the result had been 52% Remain / 48% Leave would you?

Remaining IN wont be costing us our reputation, our childrens futures or jobs and investment BUT your right, i would nt, however any decent Tory leader, would never have given this referendum.

As for immigration, french politicians "are taking back control" and demanding the UK border move back to UK, should do wonders for illegal immigration.

as someone said to me "this is what happens when you use a hammer to fix a watch"

Bo Duke

Lookyhere wrote:

as someone said to me "this is what happens when you use a hammer to fix a watch"

The EU was repeatedly asked to reform as they extended their remit, took greater and greater consolidated control of 28 countries and they refused to review or retreat back to the originally agreed trading block.

The response is the culmination of 30 years of frustration, being ignored and the arrogance of the EU government.

I was/am a 'remainer' but I understand the reasons for voting out perfectly, the EU was never going to reform so I struggle to understand why so many posters on this forum give the impression that 'we've been robbed by the great unwashed'.

The EU refused to respect the views of the electorate and when that happens there will only be one outcome.

coopster_the_1st

Lookyhere wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

Mr Goo wrote:

yes would be interesting to ignore democracy but what about the 16 million who voted IN, what is democratic about ignoring their wishes ?

at least the losing side in a GE get an opposition voice and chance to fight again 5 years later.

You wouldn't think that if the result had been 52% Remain / 48% Leave would you?

Remaining IN wont be costing us our reputation, our childrens futures or jobs and investment BUT your right, i would nt, however any decent Tory leader, would never have given this referendum.

As for immigration, french politicians "are taking back control" and demanding the UK border move back to UK, should do wonders for illegal immigration.

as someone said to me "this is what happens when you use a hammer to fix a watch"

The Calais situation is a complete red herring. It would become the responsibility of those transporting illegal immigrants into the UK to check they are eligible and it is their responsibility to transfer those people back to the country they moved from at their cost.

It is why we do not have a 'jungle' style camp near Heathrow or Gatwick

coopster_the_1st

bobmcstuff wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bramstoker wrote:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/brexit-a-very-british-revolution-1466800383?mod=e2tweu

Good article.

It is the jet-set graduates versus the working class

My entire ars* it is - graduates on the whole are not jet setters. That entire argument is false.

Of that whole article, that is all you could pick up on. It looks like you hold a very weak argument

Bozman

Interesting point-

From the guardians comments section:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.

surrey_commuter

Bo Duke wrote:

Lookyhere wrote:

as someone said to me "this is what happens when you use a hammer to fix a watch"

The EU was repeatedly asked to reform as they extended their remit, took greater and greater consolidated control of 28 countries and they refused to review or retreat back to the originally agreed trading block.

The response is the culmination of 30 years of frustration, being ignored and the arrogance of the EU government.

I was/am a 'remainer' but I understand the reasons for voting out perfectly, the EU was never going to reform so I struggle to understand why so many posters on this forum give the impression that 'we've been robbed by the great unwashed'.

The EU refused to respect the views of the electorate and when that happens there will only be one outcome.

Which views of the electorate did they refuse to respect?