BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
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mrfpb wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:
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I seem to have been defending someone else's words as my own. Apologies to Coopster and Rick0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:However, the difference between the campaigns is that leave one presents a positive message* (I'm ignoring the £350m figure as that has been debated enough) whereas the remain one (and basing this on the empty purse of a pensioner poster*) is a negative message.
Positive messages are more influential than negative messages. And this to me sums up differences between the two sides of the campaign.
Just look at the trade negotiation posts. The remain is a negative approach whereas the leave is positive.
*I don't believe either will happen as presented hence my agreement with Pross
I'm not sure that's correct. The NHS sliding doors thing is only being positive to the effects of how things will be if we exit. Their portrayal of the implication of remaining is pretty negative. Likewise, their portrayal of the impact of allowing Turkey to join the EU shows a huge arrow indicating that if they are allowed to join all 70 odd million will flood to the UK and overwhelm us (along with millions from the other potential new countries). I'm not sure how that is a positive message. To be honest, I don't think either side can realistically put together a positive message as my own belief is that the best we can hope for is staying in and everything staying much as it is now but that's not really a rallying message so they are left with two options - rubbish the other side or invent fantasy scenarios.0 -
Agreed, if you think the Vote Leave website is positive campaigning, then it only shows how far we've slid.
I mentioned the Taxpayers Alliance earlier. Anyone who thinks the leader of that is also leading the official OUT campaign so that more money can be spent on public services hasn't paid any attention. So it's negatives plus something the leader of the campaign obviously doesn't believe in.0 -
finchy wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Just look at the trade negotiation posts. The remain is a negative approach whereas the leave is positive.
Just because a message is negative doesn't mean it's wrong.
I think he is willfully ignoring this rather than saying 'known' and 'unknown'.0 -
There are so many mistruth about the EU even pointing them out no longer helps.
As the SNP will push for referendum if scotland votes to stay but england vote to leave (likely) then we will not the 5th biggest economy any more. In fact if migration continues/population growth continues as excpected then by 2030 the U.K will be the 4th biggest economy in the world. the leave campaign dont want that to happen. they want us to be the 6th biggest and loose scotland (the SNP will win if they go for a second referendum). My wife has mentioned moving to scotland in the event of leave. I minded to agree and become a scottish citizen. We may not do that but that fact I and my wife are thinking about this shows how devisive this campaign has become and how the p***** off the borg household is and the tone of the "debate". I actually dont see how the tories can paper over the cracks. we will end up with a new pm and chancellor after 23rd whatever happens and even though I did not vote for the current pair no-one voted for what we will get.
I am not positive about the future whatever the result. Either way it is a can of worms that we will all regret opening. We I did not open it but hey ho it had been.
Maybe the better solution is the Borg's declare independance from the U.K establish our own currency (chain links) and our own government (wife is pm and chancellor by default), I'll take on foreign affairs. The cats will be in charge of defense.
There could be a small enclave of BORG in suffolk soon.
Either way I am peeved. This is not democracy in action the way I would like to see it. Although the conversation on this forum is better natured than that done by the politicians.
And yes the EU does negotiate trade deals but the 28 member states inform the negotiating position of the EU team and the EU team ha to go back to the member states to get what has been agreed, agreed or vetoed, then they go back to the table until final agreement has been reached. the member states are intimately involved. the member states control the direction of the EU.
It is presented like it is britain is always against the other 27 members. In the council of ministers over the past many years there have been over 2000 odd votes of various things. Only 55 have gone against britain. Britain if it disagrees always votes against. Other states don't if they see a vote not going there way they vote in favour thus making the voting record looked more skewed than it is. 55 lost out of over 2000 is not bad. britain gets it way however it is not presented that way by the anti EU press, parties and campaign groups. Farage has said we have lost 55 votes in the council of ministers he right for once but no context makes it seem a bad position when in fact it is a pretty good one.
No of this matters anyway and neither side is listening to the other any more. the don't know will still be don't knows even after they have voted. That is how bad the debate is.
I will be voting in as many will know but I have got to the point I no longer care what the result is. I no longer like/love the country I was born in and have lived all my life in and this referendum has made me feel that way. This is saddest part of it all.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
ddraver wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:If me and my wife are negotiating a mortgage with a bank, and my wife insists she wants a fixed mortgage, it's still a negotiation between us as a couple and the bank.
Are you married now Rick? Congratulations!
...almost
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But if UK votes stay and England votes leave....0
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Huge shame this referendum was ever promised, its divisive and has potential to wreck this country and i d have this opinion regardless of any Polls or the outcome.
the vast majority do not have the knowledge or foresight to be able to make an informed decision, instead its been run for Politicians like DC to keep power or Boris who wants it, both camps, at any cost.0 -
Veronese68 wrote:
You asked his opinion as it is based on economics, he answered and explained his background and you have answered saying he doesn't know what he's talking about and asked a different question. What are your credentials regarding economics?Mr Goo wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Mr Goo wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Mr Surrey Commuter I get the impression that you work in 'the city'. One would surely have to posses a modicum of intelligence for this, although I couldn't possibly comment.
I OBSERVE that nearly all of your posts are influenced by finance and the world which you and yours inhabit and benefit from. It would be very refreshing to hear your thoughts on local health services, local schools, the local jobs market and how membership of the EU has benefited or not. When I mean 'local', I mean out in the rough old provinces, not a dormitory of London.
I will take your post as a quest for knowledge and not merely provocative. I will be open and would be interested to hear your background.
Nope I don't work in "the City" but I do have a degree in economics and work totally unrelated work with economists/analysts so get first hand insight into their forecasts and thinking. I am also a pension fund trustee so get to sit in a room with financial professionals who despair at the thought of brexit.
If you look at it through the above prism my posts are about the economy (not finance). You need economic prosperity to fund the NHS, education and provide jobs. In most peoples opinion membership of the EU has benefited the UK economy and that leaving will be bad for it. Therefore you will see a worsening of public services and less jobs.
Most peoples' view should actually read. It's what we've been used to for the last 40 odd years. So in actual fact you have no idea how our economy would have performed outside of the Common Market, EEC, EC or EU. Your facts and figured are purely based on the status quo.
I feel you are trying to draw me into a pedantic argument but to further clarify.... based upon the UK's economic performance over the last 50 years then in most people's professional opinion EU membership has been a good thing.
I don't know anything about fishing and can't be bothered to research it as it feels irrelevant to the big picture. If you can link to a concise source then I will be happy to read it.0 -
mrfpb wrote:mrfpb wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:
Stufstuff
other stuff
I seem to have been defending someone else's words as my own. Apologies to Coopster and Rick
I answered Goo in a very civilised manner but got a rant about fishing - would you mind answering0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:
The EU does not negotiate as one entity. s.
It does with trade. That is literally the point. This is just factually incorrect from you.
If that is the case why is the TTIP trade deal with America being held up by the French wanting their film industry protected (at least 20% content produced by the EU) and whether Greece has the naming right of 'feta' cheese
This is individual countries pushing their own interests. How is this possible if it is just the EU negotiating?
Because, wait for it, France is part of the EU?
If me and my wife are negotiating a mortgage with a bank, and my wife insists she wants a fixed mortgage, it's still a negotiation between us as a couple and the bank.
Coopster you have hit the nail on the head - we would be negotiating a trade deal with the EU and in the background the French would be stopping us from distributing films unless 20% was produced in the EU, and everybody else would be chiming in with their pet subjects.0 -
The thing is we are currently in a trading block with the EU, not trying to get in like the US with TTIP, so it's about preserving or winding down an existing relationship rather than starting from scratch.
On June 24th we will still have all those EU laws and regs on our statute books, it is only as the EU or UK write newer, diverging regulations that the trading environment becomes less workable. The doomsday scenario for trade depends on the EU telling every trading partner of UK businesses to end or change their working relationship with us to our detriment - which in most cases would be the European partners detriment. The market is uncertain due to the fear of an economic shock. Few businesses will act to make that shock worse than it needs to be.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Huge shame this referendum was ever promised, its divisive and has potential to wreck this country and i d have this opinion regardless of any Polls or the outcome.
Why is the issue this referendum and not the EU itself?
- If the EU was so good for us the referendum would be an easy win.
- Or if the EU had made some positive reform in February as requested by the UK government on behalf of the UK electorate it would have been an easy win
Either of the above should be easy to sell to the UK electorate if they are true. The fact they are not speaks loader than any of the remain arguments I'm hearing0 -
I wholeheartedly agree with you. I was calling out Goo as he asked your opinion and credentials then dismissed them with no explanation. So I was asking what credentials he has regarding economics to say you are wrong. He then changed the subject to fish in a rather bizarre change of subject.Surrey Commuter wrote:I feel you are trying to draw me into a pedantic argument but to further clarify.... based upon the UK's economic performance over the last 50 years then in most people's professional opinion EU membership has been a good thing.
I don't know anything about fishing and can't be bothered to research it as it feels irrelevant to the big picture. If you can link to a concise source then I will be happy to read it.0 -
Negotiating deals... mmmmhh, yes, right... for instance currently an 18 years old from Budapest can study for virtually nothing in St. Andrews or Strathclyde, but the same teenager from Berwick upon Tweed has to pay 9000 coins per annum. It must have been an hilarious day in the Scottish parliament when that piece of legislation was approved... which proves how Britain can make exceptions to the EU rules for its own advantage... well, sort of...left the forum March 20230
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Coopster the 1st wrote:mamba80 wrote:Huge shame this referendum was ever promised, its divisive and has potential to wreck this country and i d have this opinion regardless of any Polls or the outcome.
Why is the issue this referendum and not the EU itself?
- If the EU was so good for us the referendum would be an easy win.
- Or if the EU had made some positive reform in February as requested by the UK government on behalf of the UK electorate it would have been an easy win
Either of the above should be easy to sell to the UK electorate if they are true. The fact they are not speaks loader than any of the remain arguments I'm hearing
The folk who will decide in or out, will be largely voting on immigration only and as we ve both agreed, its a far wider issue than that alone, important as it is, but easily contained with a contributory benefits systems, i, for example could never claim a cent from the Polish gov, as i havent paid in first.
As i ve said before, we dont have votes on other issues, we vote in a Gov to act in our best interests (hopefully) so despite massive popularity we dont get a vote on capital punishment,
if the EU is so bad for us, they d be much more of a consensus and Parliament would decide, instead you ve got Boris J, a pro EU, until a few months ago, jumping on the bandwagon in order to get some power.
Or Corbyn a euro sceptic, having to put on his best pro EU hat.
DC never asked for much, so got very little, he is possibly the weakest PM we ve ever had.
the whole situation is crazy and can only harm UK plc.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
Is it in their interests to give the UK a favourable deal within the EU?Rick Chasey wrote:Given the EU would want to make sure other nations don't follow suit, why is it in their interest to give the UK a favourable deal?
February would indicate no, and why should they? Special deals will be phased out or we will be forced to pull out eventually.
It's all relative.
As I've just said, the EU wants to make sure others don't think leaving the EU is a good idea. So the nations will give the UK punitive deals to show others what happens if they leave.
The EU is a big proportion of the UK trade, but UK trade isn't that big a proportion of EU trade.
What is the incentive to allow things like banks or Fisheries access to the free market? Surely if they block the UK from getting that access, those firms will instead move to a nation inside the EU.
I just don't see how the UK has a strong position. What can the UK do once it's agreed to leave? Where's the bargaining position? It stands to lose more from no agreement than the EU does.
But according to many on here, the EU is the only way nations can survive and thrive, why would people want to leave? The reason is they don't want federalisation which is the EU end goal.0 -
mamba80 wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:mamba80 wrote:Huge shame this referendum was ever promised, its divisive and has potential to wreck this country and i d have this opinion regardless of any Polls or the outcome.
Why is the issue this referendum and not the EU itself?
- If the EU was so good for us the referendum would be an easy win.
- Or if the EU had made some positive reform in February as requested by the UK government on behalf of the UK electorate it would have been an easy win
Either of the above should be easy to sell to the UK electorate if they are true. The fact they are not speaks loader than any of the remain arguments I'm hearing
The folk who will decide in or out, will be largely voting on immigration only and as we ve both agreed, its a far wider issue than that alone, important as it is, but easily contained with a contributory benefits systems, i, for example could never claim a cent from the Polish gov, as i havent paid in first.
As i ve said before, we dont have votes on other issues, we vote in a Gov to act in our best interests (hopefully) so despite massive popularity we dont get a vote on capital punishment,
if the EU is so bad for us, they d be much more of a consensus and Parliament would decide, instead you ve got Boris J, a pro EU, until a few months ago, jumping on the bandwagon in order to get some power.
Or Corbyn a euro sceptic, having to put on his best pro EU hat.
DC never asked for much, so got very little, he is possibly the weakest PM we ve ever had.
the whole situation is crazy and can only harm UK plc.
Correct.
That is why people think that the EU which is in need of reform will never do so and want out now rather than even further on down the road.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Goo, you seem rather focused on the ‘city’ and financial sector for some reason so let me provide you with another view. I work in the electronic sector and for a company that is involved in manufacturing believe it or not, yes we still do some of that here. It is however for an American company. Leaving the EU would increase the chances of them deciding to no longer have a base here, they also have several more inside the EU and would want things here kept under the same trade rules. This is likely the same for many other of the foreign owned companies who have factories and technical facilities located here, who employ thousands who are highly skilled, and in fact some have come out and said it.
However, as the remainers are pointing out to us every day now, the pound is falling. This will make the costs to your company cheaper, making it more competitive. With this occurring there is just as much chance more manufacturing could be moved to the UK by your company and any others. The bottom line is that location of manufacturing will be decided on a cost basis. This is the reason China so powerful in this area and nothing to do with being a member of the EU.
I'm sorry but that is precisely the vaguest of assurances the leave campaign is continuously guilty of. I said it was about trading agreements, not currency fluctuations. The company has over 50 facilities worldwide, some R&D, some purely manufacturing and others a mixture of the two. Managing exchange rates is par for the course, something they've always done. I'm talking about expensive high end kit, it won't ever move to China on cost basis, but it will go elsewhere if the trading agreement isn't favourable. Which as I pointed out is something that isn't a guarantee, risk and reward...leaving is a risk with no real reward from my position and the same for many others with similar employment.
All this talk of positive thinking is sounding crackers if I'm honest. It's not a Uri Geller stage show we are talking about here, it's a very real situation with serious consequences. Leaving effectively sends Boris et al playing poker with the EU with all our cards face up on the table and losing the stake won't effect his well being one jot.0 -
verylonglegs wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Goo, you seem rather focused on the ‘city’ and financial sector for some reason so let me provide you with another view. I work in the electronic sector and for a company that is involved in manufacturing believe it or not, yes we still do some of that here. It is however for an American company. Leaving the EU would increase the chances of them deciding to no longer have a base here, they also have several more inside the EU and would want things here kept under the same trade rules. This is likely the same for many other of the foreign owned companies who have factories and technical facilities located here, who employ thousands who are highly skilled, and in fact some have come out and said it.
However, as the remainers are pointing out to us every day now, the pound is falling. This will make the costs to your company cheaper, making it more competitive. With this occurring there is just as much chance more manufacturing could be moved to the UK by your company and any others. The bottom line is that location of manufacturing will be decided on a cost basis. This is the reason China so powerful in this area and nothing to do with being a member of the EU.
I'm sorry but that is precisely the vaguest of assurances the leave campaign is continuously guilty of. I said it was about trading agreements, not currency fluctuations. The company has over 50 facilities worldwide, some R&D, some purely manufacturing and others a mixture of the two. Managing exchange rates is par for the course, something they've always done. I'm talking about expensive high end kit, it won't ever move to China on cost basis, but it will go elsewhere if the trading agreement isn't favourable. Which as I pointed out is something that isn't a guarantee, risk and reward...leaving is a risk with no real reward from my position and the same for many others with similar employment.
All this talk of positive thinking is sounding crackers if I'm honest. It's not a Uri Geller stage show we are talking about here, it's a very real situation with serious consequences. Leaving effectively sends Boris et al playing poker with the EU with all our cards face up on the table and losing the stake won't effect his well being one jot.
The leave campaign have said there will be trading agreements, how much more do you need? They are not the government so can make government policy hence the government will act on the wishes of the people, remain or leave, on the 24th June and do what is best for the country. No one is not going to want the best trade agreement and it is beneficial to both sides to do so because trade is a win-win. I've said and I believe the requirements of business will trump political egos when they are sitting around the table.
Fine dismiss positivity but the more we accept negative electioneering the more negative our politics are going to become. That has serious real world consequences for us all.
I don't think Boris will be PM, in fact I don't any remainers will be. We can all agree Cameron and Osborne are toast and I believe Theresa May will be PM post referendum what ever the result. There's a reason she has been so quiet0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:verylonglegs wrote:Goo, you seem rather focused on the ‘city’ and financial sector for some reason so let me provide you with another view. I work in the electronic sector and for a company that is involved in manufacturing believe it or not, yes we still do some of that here. It is however for an American company. Leaving the EU would increase the chances of them deciding to no longer have a base here, they also have several more inside the EU and would want things here kept under the same trade rules. This is likely the same for many other of the foreign owned companies who have factories and technical facilities located here, who employ thousands who are highly skilled, and in fact some have come out and said it.
However, as the remainers are pointing out to us every day now, the pound is falling. This will make the costs to your company cheaper, making it more competitive. With this occurring there is just as much chance more manufacturing could be moved to the UK by your company and any others. The bottom line is that location of manufacturing will be decided on a cost basis. This is the reason China so powerful in this area and nothing to do with being a member of the EU.
I'm sorry but that is precisely the vaguest of assurances the leave campaign is continuously guilty of. I said it was about trading agreements, not currency fluctuations. The company has over 50 facilities worldwide, some R&D, some purely manufacturing and others a mixture of the two. Managing exchange rates is par for the course, something they've always done. I'm talking about expensive high end kit, it won't ever move to China on cost basis, but it will go elsewhere if the trading agreement isn't favourable. Which as I pointed out is something that isn't a guarantee, risk and reward...leaving is a risk with no real reward from my position and the same for many others with similar employment.
All this talk of positive thinking is sounding crackers if I'm honest. It's not a Uri Geller stage show we are talking about here, it's a very real situation with serious consequences. Leaving effectively sends Boris et al playing poker with the EU with all our cards face up on the table and losing the stake won't effect his well being one jot.
The leave campaign have said there will be trading agreements, how much more do you need? They are not the government so can make government policy hence the government will act on the wishes of the people, remain or leave, on the 24th June and do what is best for the country. No one is not going to want the best trade agreement and it is beneficial to both sides to do so because trade is a win-win. I've said and I believe the requirements of business will trump political egos when they are sitting around the table.
Fine dismiss positivity but the more we accept negative electioneering the more negative our politics are going to become. That has serious real world consequences for us all.
I don't think Boris will be PM, in fact I don't any remainers will be. We can all agree Cameron and Osborne are toast and I believe Theresa May will be PM post referendum what ever the result. There's a reason she has been so quiet
total supposition on your part.
here we ve dude who is clearly an expert in his employment, telling you that there are serious trading risks to leaving and yet you dismiss them.
in my work, we just been told today that moving forward we ve lost a major (for us) european IT support desk, reason given is that they ve gone with a EU mainland competitor due to uncertainty of whether we will be in/out and its a 3 year renewal.
i ve no idea if it will effect jobs but we ve 2 more EU support contracts....... and lose them and there will be.
this is all small beer as we are hardly a household name but its a sign of things to come.
As the Spanish lass said on QT this evening, the message we are sending migrants is they are not wanted and we are using them, should they start to drift back to their own economies (as my friend dawide has) then our care systems and NHS could be in real difficulty and all because idiots like gove and Johnson want power.0 -
These real world examples are improving the level of this debate. Come on Brexiteers (and everybody) keep them coming and give us some real insight.
I had lunch today with somebody who deals with senior level bankers. She says they are dreading the disruption an OUT vote will bring. They all have advanced plans for shifting parts of their business to Europe. This can not be dismissed as scaremongering as it is a fact.0 -
mamba80 wrote:total supposition on your part.
here we ve dude who is clearly an expert in his employment, telling you that there are serious trading risks to leaving and yet you dismiss them.
in my work, we just been told today that moving forward we ve lost a major (for us) european IT support desk, reason given is that they ve gone with a EU mainland competitor due to uncertainty of whether we will be in/out and its a 3 year renewal.
i ve no idea if it will effect jobs but we ve 2 more EU support contracts....... and lose them and there will be.
this is all small beer as we are hardly a household name but its a sign of things to come.
As the Spanish lass said on QT this evening, the message we are sending migrants is they are not wanted and we are using them, should they start to drift back to their own economies (as my friend dawide has) then our care systems and NHS could be in real difficulty and all because idiots like gove and Johnson want power.
I don't believe there will be problems with trade on the 24th June and after. I presented my views on that but there is an opposing view and obviously that is having an effect.
Sounds like you work in a very similar industry to myself (we are also not a household name) so I know how slow/tough times are at the moment. This is not a personal attack but I'm going to be frank on this point because if your company was good enough at the support they provide they would have waited for the outcome of the referendum in 9 days time. They've been given a great cover excuse and have used it to turn your company down. It may well have been cost reasons to not extend contracts but the cover excuse still stands. If you were the cheapest they would have waited!
I don't see how we do not welcome migration. The company I work for has around 20% non UK employees many in highly skilled, roughly equally split between EU & non-EU. If you go and work abroad you do it for personal reasons, personal development or more money. I don't know anyone that moves to another country out of goodwill to the destination, it works for both sides. It was a way of her getting her remain view across. People get homesick and want to return all the time, Aussies/Kiwis are famous for this. The NHS is not at risk from who works for them (eg EU migrants) but from funding, poor management, overuse and over working of its employees. The latter being the biggest risk IMO0 -
If you ve a referendum that large numbers of the UK population will decide on because they dont like foreigners and think they steal our jobs, take our benefits, live in our houses and under cut our wages, then the msg you send to those here and those who might want to come is "You are not welcome"
that msg is very dangerous to a healthcare system that relies very heavily on migrant workers, both skilled and unskilled.
if our pool of 2m unemployed were keen go getters and highly skilled that might not matter but we all know that is not the case.0 -
To be honest Coop that's nonsense though isnt it. I imagine that your industries are similar to most in that there are a number of options for the client, all of whom are reasonably similar and the choice comes down to small details in cost, continuity or whathaveyou.
Leaving the EU places another barrier between a potential client and a service which is one small reason to pick an similar service from the EU. No one is suggesting that trade will cease on June 24th and it is disingenuous to suggest anyone is. What is more than possible however is that companies who are looking to move to Europe choose to build their factory or office in France rather than the UK. I am not concerned about companies moving out, I am concerned that through natural wastage as companies move on or shift that more and more of them will take the decision to set up in the EU
I am not a politician so ican think in terms longer than 5 years and my concerns are based on 2026, 36, 46, 56 and given the state of my pension currently, probably sodding 2066!We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
the two boats on the thames today say it all. Shameful.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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mamba80 wrote:then the msg you send to those here and those who might want to come is "You are not welcome"
I am sure most of the "leave" voters don't mean it that way (although some of the UKIP do), but unfortunately that's exactly the way I perceive it.
It's funny there is a job I kind of like in Maastricht... quite possibly the epicentre of the EU... closing date is the 20th, so before the referendum... should I apply? :roll:left the forum March 20230 -
ugo.santalucia wrote:mamba80 wrote:then the msg you send to those here and those who might want to come is "You are not welcome"
I am sure most of the "leave" voters don't mean it that way (although some of the UKIP do), but unfortunately that's exactly the way I perceive it.
It's funny there is a job I kind of like in Maastricht... quite possibly the epicentre of the EU... closing date is the 20th, so before the referendum... should I apply? :roll:
Maastricht was just the place where they booked in to the luxury hotel for the duration to negotiate - couldn't possibly do it in Strasburg or Brussels where they own buildings. See also Treaty of Rome and Lisbon treaty.
I'm not a UKIP supporter and I'm voting out. UKIP got 4 mill votes approx. at the last election. The winning side in this referendum will need at least 10 million, if not 15 million votes. Whoever wins will have the support of a wide cross section of the population.0 -
mrfpb wrote:
I'm not a UKIP supporter and I'm voting out. UKIP got 4 mill votes approx. at the last election. The winning side in this referendum will need at least 10 million, if not 15 million votes. Whoever wins will have the support of a wide cross section of the population.
this is the big problem though, you are passionately anti EU and i am equally pro, if 15m vote OUT, likely 13 or 14m will vote IN.
either way a huge number of people will be disenfranchised, not just for a GE or 2 but decades to come.
i used to think having the vote on this was a good thing but i ve changed on this, its going to prove very decisive, look what its done to the Tory party for starters.0
