BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

skyblueamateur

Why are we making out like it’s a competition? Headlines or not both scenarios are good for the country.

Although manufacturing was decimated in this country we’re on the cusp of real change with renewables etc. There’s no reason why we can’t get a slice of the action. If tax breaks and subsidies are needed then so be it.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

And you can bet they all get paid a lot. It’s a good business.

I have very little time for people who are snobby about how they make money.

As long as you’re ethically and legally sound, go nuts.

Yet you don't seem too keen on manufacturing etc. without which there would be far fewer businesses needing the professional services sector.

I suspect many people's view of management consultants are probably formed from any experience they've had where the place they've worked has used them. I suspect that it is similar to your own sector though where most of us experience the lower end of the spectrum that can give a whole sector a bad name. I think there is also a perception of 'the management consultants coming in' often being followed closely by 'cost cutting measures' that result in redundncies and a company being a less pleasant place to work (certainly the case in my own limited experience).

The problem I have with manufacturing is really that the UK isn't that competitive in it, laregly, and I feel because there is a level of (boomer?) nostalgia that courses through UK politics, it is disproportionately favoured without much commercial reality to back it up. If we were in Germany right now I'd have a different view.

It's clearly not universal, Rolls Royce is a global leader blah blah, but then so is Deloitte. We get massive press releases when a factory opens somewhere, but no-one seems to give a sh!t Deloitte increased revenue by 70% over 10 years and employs 415,000 people or that they planned to hire 6,000 new auditors and assurance professionals in the UK in 2022 over 5 years.

In addition to that, in general, manufacturing jobs are harder to do later in life; standing up in a factory all day is fine in your 20s,30s, 40s, but in your 60s it's increasingly difficult, and we will still need people to work in their 60s because of demographics.

Desk-based work is easier on the body.

I suppose my point is more that professional services need something to service. Financial Services is sort of a stand alone sector and will use those services but others in those professional services presumably rely on manufacturing (or companies with a physical product of some sort). It's the same in my line of work, I'm a desk based consultant, albeit I occasionally have to do some site based work, but without the hairy arsed builders actually making stuff there would be no work for me.

rick_chasey

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

And you can bet they all get paid a lot. It’s a good business.

I have very little time for people who are snobby about how they make money.

As long as you’re ethically and legally sound, go nuts.

Yet you don't seem too keen on manufacturing etc. without which there would be far fewer businesses needing the professional services sector.

I suspect many people's view of management consultants are probably formed from any experience they've had where the place they've worked has used them. I suspect that it is similar to your own sector though where most of us experience the lower end of the spectrum that can give a whole sector a bad name. I think there is also a perception of 'the management consultants coming in' often being followed closely by 'cost cutting measures' that result in redundncies and a company being a less pleasant place to work (certainly the case in my own limited experience).

The problem I have with manufacturing is really that the UK isn't that competitive in it, laregly, and I feel because there is a level of (boomer?) nostalgia that courses through UK politics, it is disproportionately favoured without much commercial reality to back it up. If we were in Germany right now I'd have a different view.

It's clearly not universal, Rolls Royce is a global leader blah blah, but then so is Deloitte. We get massive press releases when a factory opens somewhere, but no-one seems to give a sh!t Deloitte increased revenue by 70% over 10 years and employs 415,000 people or that they planned to hire 6,000 new auditors and assurance professionals in the UK in 2022 over 5 years.

In addition to that, in general, manufacturing jobs are harder to do later in life; standing up in a factory all day is fine in your 20s,30s, 40s, but in your 60s it's increasingly difficult, and we will still need people to work in their 60s because of demographics.

Desk-based work is easier on the body.

I suppose my point is more that professional services need something to service. Financial Services is sort of a stand alone sector and will use those services but others in those professional services presumably rely on manufacturing (or companies with a physical product of some sort). It's the same in my line of work, I'm a desk based consultant, albeit I occasionally have to do some site based work, but without the hairy arsed builders actually making stuff there would be no work for me.

Sure. Look, within reason, it doesn't really matter what a country is good at; what matters is that it values the contribution fairly of all the different sectors.

So the UK is a world leader in things like research, education, professional and financial services.

So it'd be nice to have a government that recognises and supports that.

Instead, the government screws those over in return for a load of industries the UK was once good at 2 or 3 generations ago.

Can you imagine Thatcher complaining there aren't enough coal miners because it's a good honest day's work?

Pross

rick_chasey said:

To keep on the deloitte theme, here is their press release on their consutling side (other side to audit above)
https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/press-releases/articles/deloitte-to-grow-uk-consulting-practice-by-40-percent-by-2027.html

UK headcount will grow to around 11,000 by 2027 and will build on the approximately 1,200 new jobs created across the country in FY22

That's a lot of jobs, but that doesn't get the headlines, whereas some battery factory does

(IIRC Car factories employ around 6,000 directly per factory)

Which one will offer the better opportunities for a low skilled, currently minimum wage worker to get a secure, better paying job? I doubt Deloitte are recruiting a lot of kids out of comprehensive school with a handful of GCSEs to their name. Also, the new factory will probably require the services of some of those people in the well-paid professional services jobs (not to mention the lower level support services).

Let's face it, any new secure jobs should be welcomed and especially if they are in newer emerging technologies. Getting battery manufacturing to the UK will hopefully stand it in good stead for modern vehicle manufacture and hopefully other battery reliant manufacturing. There is a potential large factory in Gloucestershire intended for EV manufacturing that is hoping to attract some of the major car brands and having a battery factory an hour down the road would hopefully improving that opportunity.

kingstongraham

Will any battery manufacturing that survives actually bring many jobs in anything other than management, sales etc and a bit of robot maintenance? I guess construction initially.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

And you can bet they all get paid a lot. It’s a good business.

I have very little time for people who are snobby about how they make money.

As long as you’re ethically and legally sound, go nuts.

Yet you don't seem too keen on manufacturing etc. without which there would be far fewer businesses needing the professional services sector.

I suspect many people's view of management consultants are probably formed from any experience they've had where the place they've worked has used them. I suspect that it is similar to your own sector though where most of us experience the lower end of the spectrum that can give a whole sector a bad name. I think there is also a perception of 'the management consultants coming in' often being followed closely by 'cost cutting measures' that result in redundncies and a company being a less pleasant place to work (certainly the case in my own limited experience).

The problem I have with manufacturing is really that the UK isn't that competitive in it, laregly, and I feel because there is a level of (boomer?) nostalgia that courses through UK politics, it is disproportionately favoured without much commercial reality to back it up. If we were in Germany right now I'd have a different view.

It's clearly not universal, Rolls Royce is a global leader blah blah, but then so is Deloitte. We get massive press releases when a factory opens somewhere, but no-one seems to give a sh!t Deloitte increased revenue by 70% over 10 years and employs 415,000 people or that they planned to hire 6,000 new auditors and assurance professionals in the UK in 2022 over 5 years.

In addition to that, in general, manufacturing jobs are harder to do later in life; standing up in a factory all day is fine in your 20s,30s, 40s, but in your 60s it's increasingly difficult, and we will still need people to work in their 60s because of demographics.

Desk-based work is easier on the body.

I suppose my point is more that professional services need something to service. Financial Services is sort of a stand alone sector and will use those services but others in those professional services presumably rely on manufacturing (or companies with a physical product of some sort). It's the same in my line of work, I'm a desk based consultant, albeit I occasionally have to do some site based work, but without the hairy arsed builders actually making stuff there would be no work for me.

Sure. Look, within reason, it doesn't really matter what a country is good at; what matters is that it values the contribution fairly of all the different sectors.

So the UK is a world leader in things like research, education, professional and financial services.

So it'd be nice to have a government that recognises and supports that.

Instead, the government screws those over in return for a load of industries the UK was once good at 2 or 3 generations ago.

Can you imagine Thatcher complaining there aren't enough coal miners because it's a good honest day's work?

But if they are getting screwed over that badly why are the likes of Deloitte still growing so fast?

rick_chasey

Because the industry globally is doing so well.

Basically. I think globally the entire industry has doubled in size in the last 5 years. It's big big big business.

I get it, they're largely all industries (FS aside) where you need to know sh!t rather than do sh!t.

I still maintain FS has enough variety that there's roles for every type of person.

Pross

I think that's the main issue, people generally don't understand what they do and don't really see a physical end product. If you tell someone you work in a car factory they have a picture of what you are doing (even if the reality is different) whereas if you tell them you are a management consultant they'll either have no idea what you actually do or will associate you with those blokes in suits that came to their workplace just before a bunch of redundancies and cost cutting was introduced.

wallace_and_gromit

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

And you can bet they all get paid a lot. It’s a good business.

I have very little time for people who are snobby about how they make money.

As long as you’re ethically and legally sound, go nuts.

Yet you don't seem too keen on manufacturing etc. without which there would be far fewer businesses needing the professional services sector.

I suspect many people's view of management consultants are probably formed from any experience they've had where the place they've worked has used them. I suspect that it is similar to your own sector though where most of us experience the lower end of the spectrum that can give a whole sector a bad name. I think there is also a perception of 'the management consultants coming in' often being followed closely by 'cost cutting measures' that result in redundncies and a company being a less pleasant place to work (certainly the case in my own limited experience).

The problem I have with manufacturing is really that the UK isn't that competitive in it, laregly, and I feel because there is a level of (boomer?) nostalgia that courses through UK politics, it is disproportionately favoured without much commercial reality to back it up. If we were in Germany right now I'd have a different view.

It's clearly not universal, Rolls Royce is a global leader blah blah, but then so is Deloitte. We get massive press releases when a factory opens somewhere, but no-one seems to give a sh!t Deloitte increased revenue by 70% over 10 years and employs 415,000 people or that they planned to hire 6,000 new auditors and assurance professionals in the UK in 2022 over 5 years.

In addition to that, in general, manufacturing jobs are harder to do later in life; standing up in a factory all day is fine in your 20s,30s, 40s, but in your 60s it's increasingly difficult, and we will still need people to work in their 60s because of demographics.

Desk-based work is easier on the body.

I suppose my point is more that professional services need something to service....without the hairy arsed builders actually making stuff there would be no work for me.

In a global economy, the "making stuff" can, and often does, take place overseas where labour is cheap. So the UK service sector will have plenty of potential customers, even if the UK doesn't make much stuff.

Caveat - The most manual part of my job is carrying my laptop around and I have what I think is a well above average tax bill. So I have a certain affection for non-manual jobs.

In my youth, before we went paperless, I'd occasionally have to get involved with a large file or even an archive box, but thankfully these activities have now gone the way of sending kids up chimneys!

surrey_commuter

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

Of course there is going to be some leakage such as your anecdotal example above, but nowhere that predicted by the doomsters and on here. The bigger challenges than Brexit facing the City are around over-regulation (which you have a point about but is not a Brexit issue) and insufficient risk taking:-
https://telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/22/over-regulated-london-falling-behind-rivals-says-investor/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/05/24/andrew-bailey-risk-taking-city-threatening-economy-pension/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-onward-journey

rick_chasey

The burden is trying to do business with EU customers when not based in the EU.

Pension investing reform is nothing to do with Brexit.

Legal & General, and their investment arm LGIM, have next to zero presence on the continent; indeed, the efforts to build a sales team on the continent were scrapped when the head of sales went elsewhere.

So colour me surprised that the L&G boss is not concerned with international business.

The regulation he most often complains about is the greenbelt; which flies against his main calling later in life which is investing in regenerating areas and building housing (using L&G balance sheet money, I should add).
https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/future-cities/urban-regeneration/

https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/housing/

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

The question is whether being inside such regulation is such a positive. I feel like the must derided Jacob Rees-Mogg made an interesting point when saying that the attempt to gerrymander backfired. I feel over regulation ends up the same way. This means I'm on a slippery slope towards surrey-commuter's world.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

The question is whether being inside such regulation is such a positive. I feel like the must derided Jacob Rees-Mogg made an interesting point when saying that the attempt to gerrymander backfired. I feel over regulation ends up the same way. This means I'm on a slippery slope towards surrey-commuter's world.

It wasn’t a problem when the UK was in the EU for anyone.

Too much is made of regs and not enough on access.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

The question is whether being inside such regulation is such a positive. I feel like the must derided Jacob Rees-Mogg made an interesting point when saying that the attempt to gerrymander backfired. I feel over regulation ends up the same way. This means I'm on a slippery slope towards surrey-commuter's world.

It wasn’t a problem when the UK was in the EU for anyone

The UK is no longer in the EU, so another option needs to be picked. Plus things like the financial transaction tax were not popular and were not going away.

TheBigBean

On the subject of the financial transaction tax. These are the reasons the EU commission tried to bring it in:
- to avoid fragmentation of the EU’s internal market due to individual Member States adopting their own national FTTs;
- to ensure financial institutions make a fair contribution to the costs of the global economic and financial crisis of 2007-2008 and ensure a level (tax) playing field with other sectors;
- to discourage certain types of economically inefficient transaction.

The first sounds vaguely sensible noting that a lot of tax stuff is outside the EU's jurisdiction, but the second is political and the third is not something any government should be concerned with.

rick_chasey

UK had a veto on the Tobin tax - that is telegraph scaremongering.

EU wants a slice of the London pie and get it. It makes total political sense.

It all worked fine till Brexit screwed it up. It might have been feasible had they gone for SM & CU but Britain didn’t. Now they’re losing talent all over the shop to EU27 countries.

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

The question is whether being inside such regulation is such a positive. I feel like the must derided Jacob Rees-Mogg made an interesting point when saying that the attempt to gerrymander backfired. I feel over regulation ends up the same way. This means I'm on a slippery slope towards surrey-commuter's world.

It wasn’t a problem when the UK was in the EU for anyone

The UK is no longer in the EU, so another option needs to be picked. Plus things like the financial transaction tax were not popular and were not going away.

rick_chasey

Honestly, i can keep repeating it, since 2020 my split between UK and continental work flipped 80-20 UK to 80-20 continent.

It’s only really UK businesses that consistently give me UK business. US or European more often than not chose the continent *even when we tell them there’s less talent there*.

I used to spend a lot of time seeing if the euros would relocate to London with tales of 40% higher comp.

Now I try and tempt them away from London because after cost off living their better of on the continent and they don’t need to sell via an intermediary who can say things like “funds” to clients because they can’t.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

Same TATA that constantly threatens to close the UK steel industry without further bungs?

Tbh if you can find anyone who can run Uk steel without a loss you’ll make a fortune. Not possible afaik.

But yes get rid of bankers and management consultants ✌🏻

Steel can go and bankers are moving to Paris. Who needs management consultants? We need managers.
Meanwhile, woohoo, go Britain! #sarcasm

Quite a few remain.

Most do. It's the difference between reality and what some posters want to happen.

but the reality is that London's pre-eminence is being eroded. 10,000 six figure salaries is a lot of tax £££.

Whether you agree with Brexit or not the UK's ambivalence towards the City in the withdrawal agreement was a bizarre/ballsy/mad decision that could come back to haunt all of us.

For me, prioritising fishing over FS was insanity.

I think it is better for the UK to be outside of the EU's finance regulation than to be within it but with better access.

It also makes sense given that London is a global financial centre, not just a European one.

A big attraction was that it was anglo with very stable anglo laws, regs etc but was also inside the EU, so any international business that wanted to do business in the EU would just set up shop in London.

I just pitched this morning for Head of European sales role, because they're relocating it to a city on the mainland from London because the regulatory burden is too large on their salesforce that flew in flew out from London post-Brexit

They have relocated all the country heads from London to their respective countries.

The question is whether being inside such regulation is such a positive. I feel like the must derided Jacob Rees-Mogg made an interesting point when saying that the attempt to gerrymander backfired. I feel over regulation ends up the same way. This means I'm on a slippery slope towards surrey-commuter's world.

Welcome aboard

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

The burden is trying to do business with EU customers when not based in the EU.

Pension investing reform is nothing to do with Brexit.

Legal & General, and their investment arm LGIM, have next to zero presence on the continent; indeed, the efforts to build a sales team on the continent were scrapped when the head of sales went elsewhere.

So colour me surprised that the L&G boss is not concerned with international business.

The regulation he most often complains about is the greenbelt; which flies against his main calling later in life which is investing in regenerating areas and building housing (using L&G balance sheet money, I should add).
https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/future-cities/urban-regeneration/

https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/housing/

This idea that private pension funds should be forced to finance early sage start ups is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard.

Why don’t the Gov use the trillions they have piled up in public sector pension funds or even divert money from the sovereign wealth fund from North Sea riches?

Oh that will be because they spunked all of their wealth on day to day spending and now the bastards want to force some unsuspecting private saver to put their hard earned into an inappropriate high risk fund.

FFS if the general public were better educated they would drag these charlatans from office and hang them from the nearest lamppost

rick_chasey

I have no horse in that race and don’t know enough about it but why do North American firms find scaling up beyond VC so easy versus the UK, and why do growth UK firms leave the UK to go get funding?

There is an access-to-capital problem in UK growth companies. That’s I think the problem they’re trying to address

tailwindhome

rjsterry

rick_chasey said:

The burden is trying to do business with EU customers when not based in the EU.

Pension investing reform is nothing to do with Brexit.

Legal & General, and their investment arm LGIM, have next to zero presence on the continent; indeed, the efforts to build a sales team on the continent were scrapped when the head of sales went elsewhere.

So colour me surprised that the L&G boss is not concerned with international business.

The regulation he most often complains about is the greenbelt; which flies against his main calling later in life which is investing in regenerating areas and building housing (using L&G balance sheet money, I should add).
https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/future-cities/urban-regeneration/

https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/housing/

Government and the party are vehemently opposed to development. But I guess if it says Conservative on the tin.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

I have no horse in that race and don’t know enough about it but why do North American firms find scaling up beyond VC so easy versus the UK, and why do growth UK firms leave the UK to go get funding?

There is an access-to-capital problem in UK growth companies. That’s I think the problem they’re trying to address

But you do have a horse in the race. Your pension provider could be forced to put a % of their fund into early stage start ups.

Stevo_666

rick_chasey said:

The burden is trying to do business with EU customers when not based in the EU.

Pension investing reform is nothing to do with Brexit.

Legal & General, and their investment arm LGIM, have next to zero presence on the continent; indeed, the efforts to build a sales team on the continent were scrapped when the head of sales went elsewhere.

So colour me surprised that the L&G boss is not concerned with international business.

The regulation he most often complains about is the greenbelt; which flies against his main calling later in life which is investing in regenerating areas and building housing (using L&G balance sheet money, I should add).
https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/future-cities/urban-regeneration/

https://www.legalandgeneralcapital.com/our-investment-approach/housing/

Hence the strategy of many financial institutions of putting the minimum substance needed to do business in Europe while maintaining London as the main base or HQ. I would think that after a while your Euro business will go down a bit once the adjustments have been made.

This Alex cartoon sums it up quite well.

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

I have no horse in that race and don’t know enough about it but why do North American firms find scaling up beyond VC so easy versus the UK, and why do growth UK firms leave the UK to go get funding?

There is an access-to-capital problem in UK growth companies. That’s I think the problem they’re trying to address

But you do have a horse in the race. Your pension provider could be forced to put a % of their fund into early stage start ups.

I mean, plenty of other pension funds do that in other countries, right?

I want to know what your specific objection is, because it happens elsewhere outside of the UK regularly.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

I have no horse in that race and don’t know enough about it but why do North American firms find scaling up beyond VC so easy versus the UK, and why do growth UK firms leave the UK to go get funding?

There is an access-to-capital problem in UK growth companies. That’s I think the problem they’re trying to address

But you do have a horse in the race. Your pension provider could be forced to put a % of their fund into early stage start ups.

I mean, plenty of other pension funds do that in other countries, right?

I want to know what your specific objection is, because it happens elsewhere outside of the UK regularly.

I don't want to completely transition into surrey_commuter, but why should the state be telling lenders who to lend to?