BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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Comments

  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    drhaggis said:

    Actually, what is being sold as "more choice" is going from being a key partner in deciding what the EU standards should be, and influence the rules of France, Germany and others, to not influencing them, not having a direct say in creating new standards, and instead just go and accept whatever the French & German decide.

    100% increase in sovereignity.

    If they dare have different standards to us, though, then you'll see.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Gonna leave the Mrs
    Increase my choices
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    tailwindhome said:

    Gonna leave the Mrs
    Increase my choices

    This is true but the quality of your available choices will be less than they were in the years before marriage. Lottery win exception excluded. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    rjsterry said:

    Where the Puritans are trying to lead us. Dovetails perfectly with the IEA report and shows that they are interested in giving up control rather than taking it back.



    I guess if it's your *choice* to give up control then that's all that matters. No wonder Dowden is over there embarrassing himself to the Heritage Foundation.
    Bizarrely that would probably sound like a a good speech, however as an article it just comes across as a vaccuous over use of trigger words and the obsession with aligning us to the US as over needy.

    The US economy is over 7 times the size of the UK, to put that into perspective how to we feel about needing S. Africa as a trading (or any other) partner?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    surrey_commuter said:



    The US economy is over 7 times the size of the UK, to put that into perspective how to we feel about needing S. Africa as a trading (or any other) partner?

    Some of their wines are quite nice. 😉
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    pblakeney said:

    surrey_commuter said:



    The US economy is over 7 times the size of the UK, to put that into perspective how to we feel about needing S. Africa as a trading (or any other) partner?

    Some of their wines are quite nice. 😉
    slightly off topic but this Canadian ice wine is very good
    https://www.aldi.co.uk/canadian-ice-wine/p/718916562182400
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    The EU has announced that clearing houses will no longer have access to the EU from June 2025. They really mean it this time.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

    I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic ;)
    From the article:
    However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

    “The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.
    It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.
    The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.
    This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).
    You sure you read the article?
    See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?
    Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

    If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.
    So you think we have less choice?
    I think you didn't read the article.
    I think you're avoiding answering. If we had no choice in the matter before, how can we have less choice now? Negative choice is an interesting concept :)
    If you insist on misunderstanding the article to talk about choice, that's your decision.

    The point stands and you know it's not possible to have less choice than none at all.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,554
    edited February 2022
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    pangolin said:

    We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

    I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic ;)
    From the article:
    However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

    “The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.
    It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.
    The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.
    This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).
    You sure you read the article?
    See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?
    Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

    If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.
    So you think we have less choice?
    I think you didn't read the article.
    I think you're avoiding answering. If we had no choice in the matter before, how can we have less choice now? Negative choice is an interesting concept :)
    If you insist on misunderstanding the article to talk about choice, that's your decision.

    The point stands and you know it's not possible to have less choice than none at all.
    At no point in our history has the country had no choice at all. The UK chose to sign up to EU membership and then it chose to cancel that membership. There was no point where we had no choice. This whole choice argument is such utter bollocks. It's a teenager screaming "you're not the boss of me" from their bedroom.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    TheBigBean said:

    The EU has announced that clearing houses will no longer have access to the EU from June 2025. They really mean it this time.

    Can you put that in not-Londonish for us?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2022
    ddraver said:

    TheBigBean said:

    The EU has announced that clearing houses will no longer have access to the EU from June 2025. They really mean it this time.

    Can you put that in not-Londonish for us?

    Basically, they smooth out the trading process, so they're a boring if vital part of the financial services industry.

    You can imagine from a regulatory perspective, the regulator would want trades between players in their market to be cleared by houses that have their oversight, for obvious reasons.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    ddraver said:

    TheBigBean said:

    The EU has announced that clearing houses will no longer have access to the EU from June 2025. They really mean it this time.

    Can you put that in not-Londonish for us?
    The EU has decided that financial services in the UK are a bit rogue and therefore not equivalent to their very high standards. This is despite the standards being the same and even China being considered to be equivalent in some areas. Anyway, as a result, naughty UK companies can't offer services in the EU (although there are a lot of workarounds)

    There was one exception though which was in derivative trading. The EU gave equivalence to the UK for clearing derivatives. This wasn't out of the goodness of its heart, but because it needed to avoid a massive unwinding of derivatives and a mess. Whilst it did this, there was a lot of posturing about how it was a short-term extension and everyone should shift Euro clearing to the EU. This was ignored by market participants and even more Euro clearing is done in the UK now.

    Yesterday's news was that the EU has extended this equivalence to June 2025, but this is the last time and everyone needs to move Euro clearing to the EU. They won't.

    The entire world is happy to clear derivatives in the UK, and one day, the EU will join them.

  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,697
    much obliged.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    What’s so unreasonable about having ambitions to have clearing happen in the market the regulators have jurisdiction over?
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:

    What’s so unreasonable about having ambitions to have clearing happen in the market the regulators have jurisdiction over?

    It makes it expensive for market participants.

    The US claims jurisdiction over all dollar transactions irrespective of where they are.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    kingstongraham said:

    she should be added to the list of reasons why GB should be considered a banana republic Royal Family, HoL and electoral system as demostrated by the Elphicke dynasty
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    surrey_commuter said:

    kingstongraham said:

    she should be added to the list of reasons why GB should be considered a banana republic Royal Family, HoL and electoral system as demostrated by the Elphicke dynasty
    The mental contortions are quite impressive:

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2022
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    What’s so unreasonable about having ambitions to have clearing happen in the market the regulators have jurisdiction over?

    It makes it expensive for market participants.

    The US claims jurisdiction over all dollar transactions irrespective of where they are.
    Without it happening in the EU they would not be able to to block extra margin demands, as happened in 2011 when LCH controversially deemed Italian government debt to be poor quality collateral.

    The sovereign debt crisis still looms large in the minds of the EU regulators.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    rick_chasey said:


    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    What’s so unreasonable about having ambitions to have clearing happen in the market the regulators have jurisdiction over?

    It makes it expensive for market participants.

    The US claims jurisdiction over all dollar transactions irrespective of where they are.
    Without it happening in the EU they would not be able to to block extra margin demands, as happened in 2011 when LCH controversially deemed Italian government debt to be poor quality collateral.

    The sovereign debt crisis still looms large in the minds of the EU regulators.
    The EU should decide what is credit worthy and what is not?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:


    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    What’s so unreasonable about having ambitions to have clearing happen in the market the regulators have jurisdiction over?

    It makes it expensive for market participants.

    The US claims jurisdiction over all dollar transactions irrespective of where they are.
    Without it happening in the EU they would not be able to to block extra margin demands, as happened in 2011 when LCH controversially deemed Italian government debt to be poor quality collateral.

    The sovereign debt crisis still looms large in the minds of the EU regulators.
    The EU should decide what is credit worthy and what is not?
    That was a big factor in reducing the level of bailouts sought - in the end, it was part of the Draghi "whatever it takes" effort.

    In a crisis like that markets don't necessarily function either rationally or in the collective interest, so you can see the argument.

    I think you're being a bit puritan here.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Everyone except you and some EU nationalists are happy with the system which is why it isn't changing.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    Everyone except you and some EU nationalists are happy with the system which is why it isn't changing.

    Who's everyone?

    Certainly not the financials analyst I was speaking to yday (hence the above anecdote - I didn't come up with that myself).
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    All the participants who like to net off their positions in a big market and like English law.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean said:

    All the participants who like to net off their positions in a big market and like English law.

    Yeah sure. Alas, that's the logic of Brexit, right?

    The whole logic of Brexit is not in the interest of market efficiency.

    Had it not happened, the regulators would have no need to relocate clearing.
    _
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    surrey_commuter said:

    @skyblueamateur I think many of us service based desk jockeys would be very interested to hear your story on the impact of Brexit for you and your customers

    Apologies, have only just seen this.

    I think UKCA was covered extensively by @davebradswmb He was absolutely bang on with what he wrote.

    With regards to my experience with moving physical product into Europe post Brexit, it's brought some huge issues for us.

    Fortunately, post 2016 we set-up a satellite warehouse in the EU. Our orders are mainly between £100-£300 to our European customers. If we didn't have our presence in the EU I think we would have lost the majority of that business. The costs of carriage, clearance charges and duty would make us far too expensive. It would be a lot less hassle for them to buy from a competitor in an EU country.

    We've had to resort to bulk shipping but even then the increased costs have trebled our carriage charges.

    Pre-Brexit the process would be the same if we were shipping to Birmingham or Berlin, post-Brexit is a different kettle of fish altogether. It would be hard to quantify in monetary terms but it is the largest increase in paper-work and red-tape that I've ever known.

    We sell a huge range of products which all have to have commodity codes and weights. We have to produce 3 x CI's, custom clearance forms etc. Last year it was taking the best part of half a day to organise the paperwork whereas we have streamlined things and can now organise in an hour or so.

    Previously we could arrange same day pick-up up until 3pm, now it is at least next day. Delivery into Europe would be 48 hours and now is between 4-7 days.

    I can't quite tell whether the JRM interview is p1ss-take or not. Johnson wasn't joking when he said 'F**k business'.

    We're exploring other markets but geographically, for the value of our orders, it is very difficult because of carriage charges. No amount of trade deals will change that.

    Pre-Brexit we could send parcels to France, Germany, Belgium & Holland for a pound more then mainland UK and cheaper then NI or the Highlands.

  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    skyblueamateur said:

    surrey_commuter said:

    @skyblueamateur I think many of us service based desk jockeys would be very interested to hear your story on the impact of Brexit for you and your customers

    Apologies, have only just seen this.

    I think UKCA was covered extensively by @davebradswmb He was absolutely bang on with what he wrote.

    With regards to my experience with moving physical product into Europe post Brexit, it's brought some huge issues for us.

    Fortunately, post 2016 we set-up a satellite warehouse in the EU. Our orders are mainly between £100-£300 to our European customers. If we didn't have our presence in the EU I think we would have lost the majority of that business. The costs of carriage, clearance charges and duty would make us far too expensive. It would be a lot less hassle for them to buy from a competitor in an EU country.

    We've had to resort to bulk shipping but even then the increased costs have trebled our carriage charges.

    Pre-Brexit the process would be the same if we were shipping to Birmingham or Berlin, post-Brexit is a different kettle of fish altogether. It would be hard to quantify in monetary terms but it is the largest increase in paper-work and red-tape that I've ever known.

    We sell a huge range of products which all have to have commodity codes and weights. We have to produce 3 x CI's, custom clearance forms etc. Last year it was taking the best part of half a day to organise the paperwork whereas we have streamlined things and can now organise in an hour or so.

    Previously we could arrange same day pick-up up until 3pm, now it is at least next day. Delivery into Europe would be 48 hours and now is between 4-7 days.

    I can't quite tell whether the JRM interview is p1ss-take or not. Johnson wasn't joking when he said 'F**k business'.

    We're exploring other markets but geographically, for the value of our orders, it is very difficult because of carriage charges. No amount of trade deals will change that.

    Pre-Brexit we could send parcels to France, Germany, Belgium & Holland for a pound more then mainland UK and cheaper then NI or the Highlands.

    TY
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    You can take foie gras off the Brexit bonus list as predictably they’ve flapped it
  • skyblueamateur
    skyblueamateur Posts: 1,498
    JRM against the ban. Who’d have thought?
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    Not entirely unexpected.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.

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