BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

tailwindhome

We're currently paying the 'cost' of having the freedom to set our own standards without actually setting our own standards.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

kingstongraham

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

ddraver said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

(although in reality it's whats going to happen anyway, officially or unofficially)

I don't think it can happen unofficially. And if UK companies still need certification according to the UKCA as well, it surely scuppers them.

So the idea is that CE mark is good enough for imports and required for exports, and at the same time the 'smaller state' Conservative party have duplicated the entire system purely for internal use. OK.

There is no other logical option though, is there? Given the current situation.

pblakeney

I'm thinking we are all missing the point. The point is not the rules in themselves.
All that counts is that we decide to use them instead of being told to use them.
Same end result but sovereign and all that. What a waste of time and money.

rjsterry

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

ddraver said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

(although in reality it's whats going to happen anyway, officially or unofficially)

I don't think it can happen unofficially. And if UK companies still need certification according to the UKCA as well, it surely scuppers them.

So the idea is that CE mark is good enough for imports and required for exports, and at the same time the 'smaller state' Conservative party have duplicated the entire system purely for internal use. OK.

There is no other logical option though, is there? Given the current situation.

It all feels like that scene in the Life of Brian.

"Supposing we agree that Reg has the right to regulatory divergence, even if he can't practically exercise that right without ruining his own economy"

kingstongraham

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

ddraver said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

(although in reality it's whats going to happen anyway, officially or unofficially)

I don't think it can happen unofficially. And if UK companies still need certification according to the UKCA as well, it surely scuppers them.

So the idea is that CE mark is good enough for imports and required for exports, and at the same time the 'smaller state' Conservative party have duplicated the entire system purely for internal use. OK.

There is no other logical option though, is there? Given the current situation.

It all feels like that scene in the Life of Brian.

"Supposing we agree that Reg has the right to regulatory divergence, even if he can't practically exercise that right without ruining his own economy"

"Which is nobody's fault, not even the French"

ddraver

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

rjsterry said:

kingstongraham said:

ddraver said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

(although in reality it's whats going to happen anyway, officially or unofficially)

I don't think it can happen unofficially. And if UK companies still need certification according to the UKCA as well, it surely scuppers them.

So the idea is that CE mark is good enough for imports and required for exports, and at the same time the 'smaller state' Conservative party have duplicated the entire system purely for internal use. OK.

There is no other logical option though, is there? Given the current situation.

It all feels like that scene in the Life of Brian.

"Supposing we agree that Reg has the right to regulatory divergence, even if he can't practically exercise that right without ruining his own economy"

I've said this here before but when you watch a YouTube review by an American Channel on a Japanese Motorbike discussing (often negative) changes made to make the bike Euro 6 compliant, you get an idea of how big the effect of EU regulations is.

The idea that little old us can compete is comical.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You need to add on EFTA and EEA as these share the same standards. In any case the point is that by unilaterally accepting other standards, this demotes UK standards to something only for internal use and thus just extra red tape for those UK businesses.


By the way, China have copied the CE mark with very subtle changes for the China Export logo, for fairly obvious reasons. Somehow I don't see UKCA being copied in the same way.

Maybe, but my point (that KG was trying to divert from) was regarding our freedom to make these choices. It's pretty clear we have more choice as we now we do whereas pre-Brexit we didn't.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

tailwindhome

pblakeney said:

I'm thinking we are all missing the point. The point is not the rules in themselves.
All that counts is that we decide to use them instead of being told to use them.
Same end result but sovereign and all that. What a waste of time and money.

It's not the same end result though

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

It's a freedom that has no practical application if we aren't going to apply it to imports. We are back to Reg and his right to have a baby.

pblakeney

tailwindhome said:

pblakeney said:

I'm thinking we are all missing the point. The point is not the rules in themselves.
All that counts is that we decide to use them instead of being told to use them.
Same end result but sovereign and all that. What a waste of time and money.

It's not the same end result though

Sorry. There is an extra layer of red tape.
What a waste of time and money.

thedirector135

Is it true that Brexit has made the UK the most un-biodiverse country in the world? Are Badger and Toad driving lorries now? Is Graeme Greene still writing op-eds for the Telegraph?

rjsterry

Where the Puritans are trying to lead us. Dovetails perfectly with the IEA report and shows that they are interested in giving up control rather than taking it back.

https://twitter.com/GavinBarwell/status/1493647837409824777?t=sItYFNS9e4g1No81adYT6A&s=19

I guess if it's your *choice* to give up control then that's all that matters. No wonder Dowden is over there embarrassing himself to the Heritage Foundation.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

I think you didn't read the article.

morstar

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

surrey_commuter said:

briantrumpet said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

surrey_commuter said:

tailwindhome said:

Not my Brexit Guv

https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1491351756952850432?t=amPcfX4v3xru4_FTcaF4sA&s=19

It is starting to cross my mind that they really did think they could leave and keep the exact same benefits as being members.

When will the penny drop that they voted for worse trade terms?

So I’d argue this was all known by the bunch of charlatans at the time. It was a cost worth paying in their eyes.

The thing I wonder about is do they actually want these problems to go away or not?I’m forming the opinion that ongoing friction and fall out is the end game for clowns like Frost. It gives them an enemy to continue to rail against to excuse their ongoing lack of progress on domestic governance.

Perversely, a successful Brexit could have been a really bad outcome when your whole ideology is based on it being the ‘other’ entities fault.

I think a lot of people realised there would be a trading arrangement that was not as good as the pre-existing one, but felt that there were other benefits. And I'm sure the views of what those benefits might be will vary depending on who you ask.

Whichever way you look at it, its done now. But clearly it was not in the EUs interests to make life easy for us, in case other member states decided to do the same thing.

I’m not fundamentally disagreeing with what you say but those are arguments that have been covered extensively.
My point is more that; is there a Cabal of anti eu politicians that are actually better served by the ongoing challenges presented by Brexit and wanting this extended settling in period to be as challenging as possible?

No idea whether there is some shady cabal whose purpose is to antagonise the EU - I would have thought that sort of politicians would want shot of the EU as far as possible, which means not doing that. I'm speculating though.

I guess you could assume that all the politicians are diligent public servants.

Take Frost as an example. Spouts a load of hard line twaddle that obviously can’t be achieved.
Given the role to achieve what he claims can be done, Fails to deliver (quelle surprise), leaves and then starts spouting again.

Easier to be on the outside making a name for himself throwing stones than actually achieving anything when empowered to do so. My suggestion is that he is better served by fueling publicity around perceived frustrations with the Eu.

As said earlier, I do believe Brexit is over in the minds of many. His ilk want it to continue.

I think they need the EU and 'The Blob' as imaginary foes to justify their never-ending crossness with the world, as they can't blame Labour for all the UK's woes, given how long they've been in power.

If you look at the Brexiteer postings on here I would say that the EU is a real foe for them. To me it seems that Brexit is merely a signpost in the road to ending the EU.

I would have thought that only the EU is capable of ending the EU.

briantrumpet said:

tailwindhome said:

Irony thread.

Sovereignty, my ärse.

I guess you didn't read the bit about accepting them subject to having equivalent standards.

But anyway, main point is that we can choose to do so, which was not an option pre-Brexit. So not really ironic.

L

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

Rather like the "remain said Britain would end up leaving the single market, so why are you surprised, that's what people voted for" argument we have heard when people have suggested leave campaigned explicitly on *not* leaving the single market, remain also said that Britain would be rule takers not rule makers in the event of Brexit, so I expect the same argument; i.e. we all knew it it's what people voted for.

I'm pretty sure FWIW the "project fear" numbers produced by Osborne weren't that far off in terms off loss in GDP.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

I think you didn't read the article.

I think you're avoiding answering. If we had no choice in the matter before, how can we have less choice now? Negative choice is an interesting concept

morstar

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

Apologies for quoting myself but I’ll preempt a likely reply.

Legally, we have gained the ‘right’ to choose.

Practically, we cannot enforce the right. (Other than choose to accept everybody else rules).

The result being we have less control / influence than before.

Stevo_666

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

The point regarding choice remains (no pun intended). How much we will use it and what impact it will have remains to be seen.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

I think you didn't read the article.

I think you're avoiding answering. If we had no choice in the matter before, how can we have less choice now? Negative choice is an interesting concept

If you insist on misunderstanding the article to talk about choice, that's your decision.

rjsterry

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

I mean, we *chose* to be in the EU in the first place. We weren't there against our will, and when that changed and we left "we" chose to do that.

morstar

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

The point regarding choice remains (no pun intended). How much we will use it and what impact it will have remains to be seen.

It feels analogous to the cycling argument when a driver forces you to sacrifice your right to be on the road in order to protect yourself.

You can be in the right but dead or you can protect yourself.

pblakeney

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

morstar said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

pangolin said:

We are finally free to adopt EU rules.

I think he is referring to rest of the world as we already have a deal with the EU...just in case you weren't being sarcastic

From the article:

However, the IEA says Britain must nevertheless unilaterally recognise EU rules and the CE mark in the interest of a “new radical free trade policy”.

“The UK has an opportunity to lead the world with a radical trade policy of recognising regulations, without requiring reciprocity, starting with the EU.

It's a recommendation. And the CE mark is only one specific part of any arrangements with the EU. Although tbh I think the CE mark is just about good enough for the UK to let their stuff in.

The article is literally about accepting EU rules without it being part of any deal.

This is a proposal which could apply globally, of which the EU is one option given it is a part of the global economy (approx 13% if you recall).

You sure you read the article?

See my post above. How do you think we have less choice or freedom to decide on this matter than pre-Brexit?

Did you read the article? It was all about taking the EU rules and NOT having them reciprocated in a trade deal. That's all it was about.

If that is what happens (as seems inevitable), then we have no more freedom in this area, no say in setting the rules, and an additional layer of red tape.

So you think we have less choice?

Rjsterry explained it a few posts up.
The choice is purely hypothetical.

In all practical terms, we are now a rule taker with no influence over them. Before, we had some influence over the ones that affected us the most directly.

The point regarding choice remains (no pun intended). How much we will use it and what impact it will have remains to be seen.

It feels analogous to the cycling argument when a driver forces you to sacrifice your right to be on the road in order to protect yourself.

You can be in the right but dead or you can protect yourself.

As I said upthread, the choice between life and death doesn't matter.
What appears to matter is that you have a choice.

kingstongraham

Not to recognise EU standards would obviously reduce choice.

pblakeney

kingstongraham said:

Not to recognise EU standards would obviously reduce choice.

Not recognising EU standards is the choice. Consequences be damned.
Or choose to recognise and be happy that the choice was made.

It's all a bit silly.

briantrumpet

Doing something for the principle of it can be a very expensive option, as lawyers should always advise. Pragmatism is always the better choice, but then that's never been part of the Brexit prospectus.

drhaggis

Actually, what is being sold as "more choice" is going from being a key partner in deciding what the EU standards should be, and influence the rules of France, Germany and others, to not influencing them, not having a direct say in creating new standards, and instead just go and accept whatever the French & German decide.

100% increase in sovereignity.