BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody0 -
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britai ... KKCN12R1AK
Reuters reporting that Nissan have been given a guarantee that taxpayers will fund unconditional investment aid as well as further relief if the terms of Britain's European Union exit end up harming the Sunderland's performance.
Superb negotiating by Nissan and a great result for the Sunderland workers and local business who rely on the associated trade.
Suddenly that £350m is looking like loose change.0 -
As I have said before, the EU CAN negotiate free trade deals.
http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countr ... uth-korea/0 -
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo i have to say, stating the Nissan deal is good news is very surprising, are you now a bit of a Corbynista and supporting state subsidy of private industry?
because that is exactly what its starting to look like, now how did that all go when last tried in the car industry?0 -
mamba80 wrote:How did that all go when last tried in the car industry?
Badly, but the recipients concerned were fundamentally unsound. Nissan is a different kettle of fish with the imposition of tariffs being a one-off political decision faced by none of its rivals, without which it is clearly viable.0 -
narbs wrote:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nissan-support-idUKKCN12R1AK
Reuters reporting that Nissan have been given a guarantee that taxpayers will fund unconditional investment aid as well as further relief if the terms of Britain's European Union exit end up harming the Sunderland's performance.
Superb negotiating by Nissan and a great result for the Sunderland workers and local business who rely on the associated trade.
Suddenly that £350m is looking like loose change.
Sounds remarkably like illegal state aid. I worry the muppets are opening themselves up for an opportunistic challenge to the WTO.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
So the economy grew by 0.5% compared to the pre-vote treasury forecast of -0.1%. I've taken the treasuries most optimistic forecast!
However that optimistic forecast included A50 being served the day after the vote and with no intervention from the BoE. How can that have been the optimistic forecast?
My biggest annoyance from this referendum is how politicised the government departments became, pushed into it by those leading the remain side. The same people were also leading this country :evil: but fortunately they have been shown the door! I hope, due to the outcome of this vote, future government departments will stay impartial for all future votes.
That way many people will not have had the wool pulled over their eyes and would have voted based on being given *honest assumptions/forecasts. It all feels a bit to close to the novel 1984 for my liking!
*Yes, there was dishonesty from both sides so no need to drag them up again!
You are trying to rewrite history by keep saying it was obvious that A50 would not be triggered immediately after the referendum. My memory was that it would get done on the Monday so giving BofE etc the weekend to prepare. It was thought that the Brexiteers would not not hang about as every day that passed made it less likely to happen.
In the real world The Brexit camp turned out not to be a cohesive organisation and Cameron was persuaded to commit hari kari - effectively putting everything on hold0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
Have you still not read the article? The areas of the economy fuelling our export boom are contracting. This is not a good news story.
Show me a link to where I he highlighted a snippet of economic news.
Why don't you help try and lead this thread into a land of trend spotting and break the daily posting of stats for each side to prove their case0 -
Hard to say until we know the details.mamba80 wrote:Stevo i have to say, stating the Nissan deal is good news is very surprising, are you now a bit of a Corbynista and supporting state subsidy of private industry?
because that is exactly what its starting to look like, now how did that all go when last tried in the car industry?
Tbh I prefer it if there is nothing to do - which may be the case if the EU takes a sensible approach to trading with the UK. Clearly if they don't then the tariffs imposed on EU imports could be a handy source of funding. Not so much state aid as EU funding "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Have to ask why you haven't done that yet?Surrey Commuter wrote:
Have you still not read the article? The areas of the economy fuelling our export boom are contracting. This is not a good news story.Stevo 666 wrote:
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
Show me a link to where I he highlighted a snippet of economic news.
Why don't you help try and lead this thread into a land of trend spotting and break the daily posting of stats for each side to prove their case
Not read the link, been busy. I took what you said at face value. If you didn't express yourself clearly then I'll read the link when I have a bit of spare time."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I believe would be illegal while we are in the EU. But as any impact would be post Brexit that appears to be a self rectifying problem.Surrey Commuter wrote:narbs wrote:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nissan-support-idUKKCN12R1AK
Reuters reporting that Nissan have been given a guarantee that taxpayers will fund unconditional investment aid as well as further relief if the terms of Britain's European Union exit end up harming the Sunderland's performance.
Superb negotiating by Nissan and a great result for the Sunderland workers and local business who rely on the associated trade.
Suddenly that £350m is looking like loose change.
Sounds remarkably like illegal state aid. I worry the muppets are opening themselves up for an opportunistic challenge to the WTO."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Have to ask why you haven't done that yet?Surrey Commuter wrote:
Have you still not read the article? The areas of the economy fuelling our export boom are contracting. This is not a good news story.Stevo 666 wrote:
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
Show me a link to where I he highlighted a snippet of economic news.
Why don't you help try and lead this thread into a land of trend spotting and break the daily posting of stats for each side to prove their case
Not read the link, been busy. I took what you said at face value. If you didn't express yourself clearly then I'll read the link when I have a bit of spare time.
You posted the link, saying it was positive when you had not read that crucial sectors of the economy are going backwards.
People on here have discovered a thirst for economics yet you join in feeding them snippets of data to make a point. Why not explain trends and the stats they should be looking out for and the help to interpret them.
If your back story is true then you know that most of these stats, a mere four months after the vote and no Brexit, are irrelevant to a debate on the impact of Brexit.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
I believe would be illegal while we are in the EU. But as any impact would be post Brexit that appears to be a self rectifying problem.Surrey Commuter wrote:narbs wrote:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nissan-support-idUKKCN12R1AK
Reuters reporting that Nissan have been given a guarantee that taxpayers will fund unconditional investment aid as well as further relief if the terms of Britain's European Union exit end up harming the Sunderland's performance.
Superb negotiating by Nissan and a great result for the Sunderland workers and local business who rely on the associated trade.
Suddenly that £350m is looking like loose change.
Sounds remarkably like illegal state aid. I worry the muppets are opening themselves up for an opportunistic challenge to the WTO.
Yep the EU would ban it but under WTO regs I believe you are not allowed to give illegal state aid (see Boeing vs Airbus) and you are specifically not allowed to directly compensate exporters for tariffs. If it was me I would be keeping my nose clean and not risking a challenge when we are in a precarious position0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
So the economy grew by 0.5% compared to the pre-vote treasury forecast of -0.1%. I've taken the treasuries most optimistic forecast!
However that optimistic forecast included A50 being served the day after the vote and with no intervention from the BoE. How can that have been the optimistic forecast?
My biggest annoyance from this referendum is how politicised the government departments became, pushed into it by those leading the remain side. The same people were also leading this country :evil: but fortunately they have been shown the door! I hope, due to the outcome of this vote, future government departments will stay impartial for all future votes.
That way many people will not have had the wool pulled over their eyes and would have voted based on being given *honest assumptions/forecasts. It all feels a bit to close to the novel 1984 for my liking!
*Yes, there was dishonesty from both sides so no need to drag them up again!
You are trying to rewrite history by keep saying it was obvious that A50 would not be triggered immediately after the referendum. My memory was that it would get done on the Monday so giving BofE etc the weekend to prepare. It was thought that the Brexiteers would not not hang about as every day that passed made it less likely to happen.
In the real world The Brexit camp turned out not to be a cohesive organisation and Cameron was persuaded to commit hari kari - effectively putting everything on hold
How could we have served A50 in the days after the vote? It was made obvious by DC & GO that government departments had not been allowed to do any Brexit planning. A50 would not have been served without a decent amount of government planning behind it.
Even if DC had stayed on the A50 time scale would be very similar to what it is today.0 -
Wallace and Gromit wrote:
I hope there are no cats around when Joel reads this one
Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rexit-vote
So they have admitted that their post Brexit crash was overly pessimistic :oops: (i.e. wrong) but are sticking with their prediction that we will grow by 1.1% in 2017
2016 is proving to be an annus horribilis for the 'experts' 0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Surrey Commuter wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
So the economy grew by 0.5% compared to the pre-vote treasury forecast of -0.1%. I've taken the treasuries most optimistic forecast!
However that optimistic forecast included A50 being served the day after the vote and with no intervention from the BoE. How can that have been the optimistic forecast?
My biggest annoyance from this referendum is how politicised the government departments became, pushed into it by those leading the remain side. The same people were also leading this country :evil: but fortunately they have been shown the door! I hope, due to the outcome of this vote, future government departments will stay impartial for all future votes.
That way many people will not have had the wool pulled over their eyes and would have voted based on being given *honest assumptions/forecasts. It all feels a bit to close to the novel 1984 for my liking!
*Yes, there was dishonesty from both sides so no need to drag them up again!
You are trying to rewrite history by keep saying it was obvious that A50 would not be triggered immediately after the referendum. My memory was that it would get done on the Monday so giving BofE etc the weekend to prepare. It was thought that the Brexiteers would not not hang about as every day that passed made it less likely to happen.
In the real world The Brexit camp turned out not to be a cohesive organisation and Cameron was persuaded to commit hari kari - effectively putting everything on hold
How could we have served A50 in the days after the vote? It was made obvious by DC & GO that government departments had not been allowed to do any Brexit planning. A50 would not have been served without a decent amount of government planning behind it.
Even if DC had stayed on the A50 time scale would be very similar to what it is today.
Check back - I am sure expectations were in days. Remember this was a decision of the heart not the head.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:Wallace and Gromit wrote:
I hope there are no cats around when Joel reads this one
Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rexit-vote
So they have admitted that their post Brexit crash was overly pessimistic :oops: (i.e. wrong) but are sticking with their prediction that we will grow by 1.1% in 2017
2016 is proving to be an annus horribilis for the 'experts'
Go on then I will play along - show me how a post Brexit crash forecast was wrong.
I wonder if two different people have access to your account... father and son perhaps? The last few days have been reasoned debate then this "postcard written by a teenager"0 -
Surrey Commuter wrote:Coopster the 1st wrote:Wallace and Gromit wrote:
I hope there are no cats around when Joel reads this one
Britain will be fastest growing G7 economy this year, says IMF
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... rexit-vote
So they have admitted that their post Brexit crash was overly pessimistic :oops: (i.e. wrong) but are sticking with their prediction that we will grow by 1.1% in 2017
2016 is proving to be an annus horribilis for the 'experts'
Go on then I will play along - show me how a post Brexit crash forecast was wrong.
I wonder if two different people have access to your account... father and son perhaps? The last few days have been reasoned debate then this "postcard written by a teenager"
Why does nobody read the article behind their links - they might well find it contradicts their interpretation of the headline0 -
Even the Express now says that Leave voters are now regretting their decision
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ouGov-poll0 -
I'll probably have to dust off my economics files but you know as well as I that before the actual exit then the impacts are still to be determined.Surrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Have to ask why you haven't done that yet?Surrey Commuter wrote:
Have you still not read the article? The areas of the economy fuelling our export boom are contracting. This is not a good news story.Stevo 666 wrote:
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
Show me a link to where I he highlighted a snippet of economic news.
Why don't you help try and lead this thread into a land of trend spotting and break the daily posting of stats for each side to prove their case
Not read the link, been busy. I took what you said at face value. If you didn't express yourself clearly then I'll read the link when I have a bit of spare time.
You posted the link, saying it was positive when you had not read that crucial sectors of the economy are going backwards.
People on here have discovered a thirst for economics yet you join in feeding them snippets of data to make a point. Why not explain trends and the stats they should be looking out for and the help to interpret them.
If your back story is true then you know that most of these stats, a mere four months after the vote and no Brexit, are irrelevant to a debate on the impact of Brexit.
The point with the data to date is that it shows how businesses and people are anticipating the event. If they really thought it was the 'cat sitters armageddon scenario', the you would expect activity to fall away now given natural human cautious instincts. But it is not based on the recent data."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
I'll probably have to dust off my economics files but you know as well as I that before the actual exit then the impacts are still to be determined.Surrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Have to ask why you haven't done that yet?Surrey Commuter wrote:
Have you still not read the article? The areas of the economy fuelling our export boom are contracting. This is not a good news story.Stevo 666 wrote:
The positive articles are just redressing the balance a bit in the face of some over done gloom mongeringSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:And good news number three today on UK growth in the 3 months since Brexit:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-37786467
Does nobody read past the headline - agric, construction and manufacturing all shrank.
Anyway the message stays the same - stop over-reacting (daily) to every scrap of news - that is aimed at everybody
That said, you have accepted that the economy has grown but focused on the sectors that have done less well in the period. Is the t-shirt on order?
Show me a link to where I he highlighted a snippet of economic news.
Why don't you help try and lead this thread into a land of trend spotting and break the daily posting of stats for each side to prove their case
Not read the link, been busy. I took what you said at face value. If you didn't express yourself clearly then I'll read the link when I have a bit of spare time.
You posted the link, saying it was positive when you had not read that crucial sectors of the economy are going backwards.
People on here have discovered a thirst for economics yet you join in feeding them snippets of data to make a point. Why not explain trends and the stats they should be looking out for and the help to interpret them.
If your back story is true then you know that most of these stats, a mere four months after the vote and no Brexit, are irrelevant to a debate on the impact of Brexit.
The point with the data to date is that it show how businesses and people are anticipating the event. If they really thought it was the 'cat sitters armageddon' scenario, the you would expect activity to fall away now given natural human cautious instincts. But it is not based on the recent data.
I agree about anticipation and waiting till March is the best decision so far. Unknown unknowns are the biggest killer of business confidence.
But either way you would be able to cherry pick good/bad news stories to prove/disprove anything you want.
I would argue we need at least two full quarters of GDP, Inflation, employment, balance of payments to get an accurate prediction of our direction of travel0 -
I thought nobody paid any attention to what the Express or Mail say?Surrey Commuter wrote:Even the Express now says that Leave voters are now regretting their decision
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ouGov-poll
I have started on the beers, but that looks like it is saying exactly the opposite of what you posted?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Fair comment.Surrey Commuter wrote:would argue we need at least two full quarters of GDP, Inflation, employment, balance of payments to get an accurate prediction of our direction of travel
Now time for another drink then out to see the Buzzcocks 8)"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Fair comment.Surrey Commuter wrote:would argue we need at least two full quarters of GDP, Inflation, employment, balance of payments to get an accurate prediction of our direction of travel
Now time for another drink then out to see the Buzzcocks 8)
Crikey - you must be as old as me :shock:0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
I thought nobody paid any attention to what the Express or Mail say?Surrey Commuter wrote:Even the Express now says that Leave voters are now regretting their decision
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/ ... ouGov-poll
I have started on the beers, but that looks like it is saying exactly the opposite of what you posted?
My reading of it wax that it seems to suggest that there's very little that would convince the brexit crowd that they made the wrong choice...
My personal view/belief is still that it was a stupid decision and that the overall effect is going to be a negative one. That doesn't mean that we won't see positive gdp growth, just that things aren't as good as they could have been.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
By the way, just one for those of you suggesting that our economy's outperforming the rest of the G7/EU - the UK has consistently been running a much higher deficit than most other advanced economies since 2008. Take that support away, and we might be showing growth figures similar to, or lower than, elsewhere.
We really do need to put single market membership ahead of migration, even if it does p1ss off Tory party members.0 -
Maybe - too young to see them first time aroundSurrey Commuter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Fair comment.Surrey Commuter wrote:would argue we need at least two full quarters of GDP, Inflation, employment, balance of payments to get an accurate prediction of our direction of travel
Now time for another drink then out to see the Buzzcocks 8)
Crikey - you must be as old as me :shock: "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm confused as to how Coopster has spent weeks pre and post referendum telling us we have a superb negociating position and plenty of leverage on the EU and then appears to celebrate the UK now likely offering sweeteners to companies to keep their factories here...surely an indication that our position isn't that strong at all. It can't be had both ways.0
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verylonglegs wrote:I'm confused as to how Coopster has spent weeks pre and post referendum telling us we have a superb negociating position and plenty of leverage on the EU and then appears to celebrate the UK now likely offering sweeteners to companies to keep their factories here...surely an indication that our position isn't that strong at all. It can't be had both ways.
I think that Coopster may be an expert at doublethink. Just as he is also good at sneering at experts when they get a prediction wrong (such as how quickly the economy will be affected), but says nothing when they get it right (devaluation of sterling, reduced business investment, more QE, higher government deficit).0
