BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hammond saying what I have been (along with many others)
    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 3858791424
    Hammond warns that whatever economic merits of a good exit deal for Europe, EU leaders worried about damaging their EU "political project".
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 7381478400
    HAmmond message - don't necessarily expect the economically rational outcome from Brexit negotiation.

    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:

    good luck with that
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    bompington wrote:
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    mamba80 wrote:
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    That and, y'know, the third biggest party in the commons being a Scottish Separatist party.

    My view on this is that voting for the SNP in a general election is a fairly safe protest vote for Scots as it's highly unlikely to affect which party becomes the UK governing party and so doesn't really incur any risks.

    Are you serious? with a working Conservative majority of only 12 MPs - Labour could easily have won the last election if they d not been decimated in Scotland.
    Let's do some Maths.

    Current status:
    Con 331
    Lab 232
    SNP 56

    Con majority 12.

    Let's imagine that Labour had completely reversed the SNP's success and won 55 of the 56 SNP seats.

    Con 331
    Lab 287
    SNP 1

    Con majority.. err..... 12.

    i hate a smart ars* :oops:

    If they had only been decimated they would have rejoiced as they would only have lost 10% of their Scottish seats
    ... who would be clubbed to death by their fellow MPs :shock:
    :D:D
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hammond saying what I have been (along with many others)
    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 3858791424
    Hammond warns that whatever economic merits of a good exit deal for Europe, EU leaders worried about damaging their EU "political project".
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 7381478400
    HAmmond message - don't necessarily expect the economically rational outcome from Brexit negotiation.

    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:

    I currently have a solicitor working for me and he is such a hard nosed bar steward that I cringe at some of his suggestions/plans/scenarios and "our" response to likely outcomes. To you it will seem bizarre that I pay such a self-interested person to lead me. I am delighted to have him on my side and will keep paying him.

    I imagine you would look for a pro-bono tree hugger eager to get the best possible outcome for all parties.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Wallace and Gromit wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    That and, y'know, the third biggest party in the commons being a Scottish Separatist party.

    My view on this is that voting for the SNP in a general election is a fairly safe protest vote for Scots as it's highly unlikely to affect which party becomes the UK governing party and so doesn't really incur any risks.

    But actually leaving the UK is a whole different ball game and when the chance was offered only 8 months prior to the general election, it was rejected. So for better or worse, Scotland remains part of the UK, with some devolved powers.

    If/when Scotland becomes independent it will of course be free to determine its own relationship with the EU but until then it can't and its MPs and MSPs should work constructively with the UK government to help secure the best terms for its biggest export market. Scotland "exports" over 4 times as much to the UK as it does to the rest of the EU.

    The point is the basis of the Union is fundamentally different from what it was when the independence referendum happened - at that point everyone though we were going to stay in the EU.

    The other thing is that politics in Scotland is fundamentally further to the left than it is in England - we seem to be surging to the right. One of the reasons some Scots wanted to leave the last time is because they don't feel that they have anything politically in common with the rest of the Union. Based on what's happening now my feeling is that will only increase (obviously just IMO).

    My experience of living in Scotland (from 2012/13 to early 2016) is that people as a whole are not only more left wing but also more engaged with politics than the population as a whole in England (again that's just my experience, but they did get nearly 85% turnout for Indyref which is more than any English election I know of).

    People in England (not you specifically, necessarily) seem to hold a very simplistic view of Scottish politics and of the reasons for the indyref which results in a lot of dodgy understanding. As per Brexit it's not black and white.

    To your last point: yes of course that would be more logical, but I think logic and reason left the building some time ago when it comes to Brexit.
  • wallace_and_gromit
    wallace_and_gromit Posts: 3,618
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    To your last point: yes of course that would be more logical, but I think logic and reason left the building some time ago when it comes to Brexit.

    It was actually a comment about Scottish independence. The SNP's supposedly favoured option of remaining in the EU is not an option any longer so they now appear to be working actively to achieve a sub-optimal economic result for by far their largest trading partner.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Hammond saying what I have been (along with many others)
    https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/statu ... 3858791424
    Hammond warns that whatever economic merits of a good exit deal for Europe, EU leaders worried about damaging their EU "political project".
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/ ... 7381478400
    HAmmond message - don't necessarily expect the economically rational outcome from Brexit negotiation.

    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:

    What about Redwood's comments in an article a few pages back and that Tory councillor also linked, starting a petition to have people tried and jailed for their political views? Your kind of people huh? Or do you just gloss over it to fit your argument?
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    "Control our own destiny" sounds remarkably like "Take back control". Utterly meaningless, unless you specify something.

    Mind you, the irony is that the "Take back control" crowd seem to have little or no control over the process ahead of them...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    So...

    Australia pulls out of trade talks.

    May supports Heathrow (against how she's voted before).

    Funny how things change.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    ^This.

    The thickoes will realise at some point, probably not soon as they're thickoes. But one day.

    There really is nothing positive from Brexit, stick your fingers in your ears if you like, but at the end of the day you'll still be stupid.

    The only question is how bad.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    Brexit collateral damage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tell-lords - still, we'll be in "control of our own destiny", even if we do cause a bigger clusterf for our neighbours. Not that England has ever caused any problems like that before...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    I'm off now. Can't be arsed to speak to dullards anymore.

    Just a shame that some of you are f*cking twats who can't see the wood for the trees.

    Time will tell.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Joelsim wrote:
    So...

    Australia pulls out of trade talks.

    May supports Heathrow (against how she's voted before).

    Funny how things change.

    So we looked long and hard for somebody to participate in an illegal act and settled on the aussies. Lo and behold it seems they don't want to p1ss off the world's largest trade bloc.

    This of course raises the question of when will we accept our place in the world and act accordingly?

    I read somewhere that we will present our demands and that they will take at least two months to consider them. It drums home the thought that nothing can be achieved in 2 years unless we accept their offer with a few minor tweaks.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Brexit collateral damage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tell-lords - still, we'll be in "control of our own destiny", even if we do cause a bigger clusterf for our neighbours. Not that England has ever caused any problems like that before...

    Other than as a metaphor to explain the highly integrated nature of modern economies and the complex nature of the task we face in disentangling them I do not see the point in this article. It is like watching your house go up in flames and your neighbour sidling up to ask what are you going to do about the fence.

    £1.5bn loss to the irish dairy industry!!!! Who gives a fark??? in a few year's time we will be losing that a week. They could always do the decent thing and unite the island.
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    bobmcstuff wrote:
    My experience of living in Scotland (from 2012/13 to early 2016) is that people as a whole are not only more left wing but also more engaged with politics than the population as a whole in England
    In terms of who they vote for, yes - but when the Social Attitudes Survey actually ask the detailed questions, it turns out that people in Scotland have much the same opinions as in England on most of the standard political issues.
    There is a certain amount of social and cultural pressure in Scotland not to be a Tory Bastard - and in particular, at the moment, to be pro-indy. I find it fascinating that my FB feed is, unlike most people's, a long way from being an echo chamber for my views - you'd think that I hang out exclusively with Corbyn and Sturgeon fans, when I know for a fact that all the noise is coming from a small minority of my friends.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.

    It turns out you voted to swap one level of bureaucracy for another.

    The failure of the EU-Canada trade deal demonstrates how unlikely we are to get a deal with our largest trading partner in the forseeeable future. Especially as our crack team keep acting like they owe us a favour.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    It is like watching your house go up in flames and your neighbour sidling up to ask what are you going to do about the fence.
    It's more like watching your neighbour torching his own house, and asking him "Why the bejesus did you do that, you berk?"

    (Incidentally, if you know your rhyming slang, I apologise for my use of the word "berk".)
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Brexit collateral damage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tell-lords - still, we'll be in "control of our own destiny", even if we do cause a bigger clusterf for our neighbours. Not that England has ever caused any problems like that before...

    That reads very much like the Irish will be looking for the EU to have positive discussions towards the outcome of Brexit rather than the punishment agenda being pushed by the EU leaders.

    And here are 3 more countries (Sweden, Finland and Denmark) looking for positive discussions to take place rather than the disruptive ones being pushed by the EU (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... t-britain/)

    Then there is the Lithuania election where their government have been elected on a ticket to reduce emigration. As the UK is the largest recipient of Lithuanian emigrants this definitely looks like support for the UK on ending free movement into the UK.

    So the EU says one thing, but the governments who will be accepting the consequences of how the EU leaders negotiate are telling them how they should act. The EU definitely sound united on Brexit :lol:

    Feels like a good news day all round to me :D
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.

    It turns out you voted to swap one level of bureaucracy for another.

    The failure of the EU-Canada trade deal demonstrates how unlikely we are to get a deal with our largest trading partner in the forseeeable future. Especially as our crack team keep acting like they owe us a favour.

    Coopster can't see that as he has his fingers in his ears and has had a frontal lobotomy. Either that or he's a cunt.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    It turns out you voted to swap one level of bureaucracy for another.
    Aye, indeed.

    Remember the 'Bonfire of the Red Tape? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... iness.html Any idea what happened to that?? Well, it seems like nearly all of the red tape turned out to be there for a reason, and so is still there now.

    It'll be much the same with that 'layer of bureaucracy' people think is going to disappear overnight.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    Joelsim wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.

    You're such a c*nt.
    Totally unnecessary abuse. Sort it out.

    Try making making a sensible argument as to why he is wrong. Or can you not do that?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Brexit collateral damage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tell-lords - still, we'll be in "control of our own destiny", even if we do cause a bigger clusterf for our neighbours. Not that England has ever caused any problems like that before...

    That reads very much like the Irish will be looking for the EU to have positive discussions towards the outcome of Brexit rather than the punishment agenda being pushed by the EU leaders.

    And here are 3 more countries (Sweden, Finland and Denmark) looking for positive discussions to take place rather than the disruptive ones being pushed by the EU (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... t-britain/)

    Then there is the Lithuania election where their government have been elected on a ticket to reduce emigration. As the UK is the largest recipient of Lithuanian emigrants this definitely looks like support for the UK on ending free movement into the UK.

    So the EU says one thing, but the governments who will be accepting the consequences of how the EU leaders negotiate are telling them how they should act. The EU definitely sound united on Brexit :lol:

    Feels like a good news day all round to me :D

    You are a moron of the highest order. Unbelievable how anyone can think like you. Twat.
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Surrey Commuter wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.

    It turns out you voted to swap one level of bureaucracy for another.

    The failure of the EU-Canada trade deal demonstrates how unlikely we are to get a deal with our largest trading partner in the forseeeable future. Especially as our crack team keep acting like they owe us a favour.

    It's actually going to increase the amount of bureaucracy that a lot of companies have to comply with anyway, if they want to sell anything to Europe. As they'll have to comply with whatever our new requirements are plus the EU requirements. I'd rather just have the one set.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,387
    Joelsim wrote:
    Coopster can't see that as he has his fingers in his ears and has had a frontal lobotomy. Either that or he's a ****.
    I get that you disagree strongly with him, but you'll not make any friends, even with people who also disagree strongly with him, if all you can do is insult. If you can't keep it civil, why not just put him on your 'foes' list?
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Yet, you and many others want to remain under the leadership of these people rather than control our own destiny :roll:
    It seems to me that the "control your own destiny" myth is mostly popular among people who have difficulty coping with the globalised, interdependent world we live in today. Those who voted Brexit seem to be those who feel like they're the losers, whether economically or just emotionally.
    They haven't worked out that nobody is completely "in control of their own destiny": we all agree to share control in certain ways: in our relationships, at work, politically.
    I suspect that the Brexitomane cry of "Hooray, now we have control of our own destiny" will start to sound a bit thin once reality begins to bite.

    We have voted to remove one level of bureaucracy, I cannot see how this is a bad thing. Less is definitely more in this instance. So we are increasing out control. The current EU-Canadian trade deal failure demonstrates this perfectly.

    You're such a c*nt.
    Totally unnecessary abuse. Sort it out.

    Try making making a sensible argument as to why he is wrong. Or can you not do that?

    It's all there in front of you Steve. If you can't see it then you're an idiot too.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    And more good news

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... orker-pool

    Wage rises coming to the lower paid in society when unlimited EU migration stops. And the 'experts' told us in the run up to the referendum that immigration did not cause a suppression of wages

    The comments are hilarious as Guardian readers get stuck with conflicting views of wage rises good/Brexit bad :d
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Coopster can't see that as he has his fingers in his ears and has had a frontal lobotomy. Either that or he's a ****.
    I get that you disagree strongly with him, but you'll not make any friends, even with people who also disagree strongly with him, if all you can do is insult. If you can't keep it civil, why not just put him on your 'foes' list?

    Just bored of speaking to dicks. It's plainly obvious what's happening, and who it's going to harm. Yet, some people are still trying to defend it despite all the evidence.

    As I said a few posts ago, nationalists need to be kept away from anything important as they have ulterior motives. furthermore they are responsible for dividing this country for whatever reason.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    briantrumpet wrote:
    Brexit collateral damage: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... tell-lords - still, we'll be in "control of our own destiny", even if we do cause a bigger clusterf for our neighbours. Not that England has ever caused any problems like that before...

    That reads very much like the Irish will be looking for the EU to have positive discussions towards the outcome of Brexit rather than the punishment agenda being pushed by the EU leaders.

    And here are 3 more countries (Sweden, Finland and Denmark) looking for positive discussions to take place rather than the disruptive ones being pushed by the EU (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/201 ... t-britain/)

    Then there is the Lithuania election where their government have been elected on a ticket to reduce emigration. As the UK is the largest recipient of Lithuanian emigrants this definitely looks like support for the UK on ending free movement into the UK.

    So the EU says one thing, but the governments who will be accepting the consequences of how the EU leaders negotiate are telling them how they should act. The EU definitely sound united on Brexit :lol:

    Feels like a good news day all round to me :D

    All it will take is one country to veto it, and we're back at square one...

    Just because one country wants a good deal and another wants freedom of movement restrictions, doesn't mean that were gonna get membership of the common market without freedom of movement.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • bobmcstuff
    bobmcstuff Posts: 11,435
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    And more good news

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... orker-pool

    Wage rises coming to the lower paid in society when unlimited EU migration stops. And the 'experts' told us in the run up to the referendum that immigration did not cause a suppression of wages

    The comments are hilarious as Guardian readers get stuck with conflicting views of wage rises good/Brexit bad :d

    It'll have to be a pretty big pay rise to cancel out the inflation caused by the 20% devaluation of the pound...

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