BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Um, OK.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Can't even stand the poles up straight.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So is St David’s in Wales and you won’t get more rural than there.rick_chasey said:
It is literally a citysurrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.0 -
Ely is literally a cityrick_chasey said:
It is literally a citysurrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.0 -
If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.0 -
rjsterry said:
Um, OK.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Can't even stand the poles up straight.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:
France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.0 -
Leeds and about 40 other towns and cities are upset at this commentDorset_Boy said:
If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.0 -
In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.rjsterry said:
This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.john80 said:
We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.rick_chasey said:
Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.surrey_commuter said:
not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receiptsrick_chasey said:
Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.Stevo_666 said:
Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gasbriantrumpet said:I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.
(house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).
Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".
Honestly Stevo, don't do it.
The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.0 -
There are 46 towns and cities in the UK with larger populations than Cambridge.Dorset_Boy said:
If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.0 -
Interesting stat and backs up my point.webboo said:
There are 46 towns and cities in the UK with larger populations than Cambridge.Dorset_Boy said:
If Cambridge is rural then other than London, Bristol, Birmingham, Sheffield, Manchester and Liverpool, everywhere in the country is rural, which is patent nonsense.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Large towns of 50-100,000+ are not rural.0 -
I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
There are some fairly rural places inside the M25 stillpblakeney said:I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.
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Yeahbut everything outside is rural. 😉elbowloh said:
There are some fairly rural places inside the M25 stillpblakeney said:I think for some "rural" means outside the M25.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
And is also not rural. The bits around it are, but towns and cities are definitely not rural.surrey_commuter said:
Ely is literally a cityrick_chasey said:
It is literally a citysurrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.john80 said:
In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.rjsterry said:
This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.john80 said:
We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.rick_chasey said:
Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.surrey_commuter said:
not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receiptsrick_chasey said:
Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.Stevo_666 said:
Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gasbriantrumpet said:I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.
(house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).
Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".
Honestly Stevo, don't do it.
The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.
If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
You can see why a lot of places have gone straight to mobile.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Um, OK.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Can't even stand the poles up straight.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:
France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I'm disgusted.
Not only was there a German and an Italian on the new series of the Great British Bake Off, but the German also won star baker this week.
Brexit means Brexit.0 -
It's going to be fibre, mobile or satellite. To be fair, they are doing quite a good job of getting fibre to quite rural locations. France is paying the price now for the Napoleonic drive to establish small communities dotted all over the place to exploit the smallest and remotest tracts of land that could be coaxed into food production. Now they have to bite the bullet and service those tiny communities in hard-to-reach places, or let them die. England, in comparison, is one big metropolis: there's nowhere actually remote.rjsterry said:
You can see why a lot of places have gone straight to mobile.briantrumpet said:rjsterry said:
Um, OK.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
Can't even stand the poles up straight.briantrumpet said:rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.
And if you want to complain that UK infrastructure is sometimes poor, I give you:
France is, quite literally, giving up on wired telephones. No wonder, when they look like this. And their electricity wiring is hardly less 'artistic': they just string everything up on poles, willy-nilly, and hope it stays up. It doesn't, a lot of the time.
0 -
Why isn't it a two stage process? Firstly do the insulation and keep the oil boiler. Secondly, when the boiler needs replacing, think about alternatives. I've never really liked the way that marketing for heat pumps seems to take credit for the insulation it requires.rjsterry said:
Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.john80 said:
In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.rjsterry said:
This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.john80 said:
We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.rick_chasey said:
Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.surrey_commuter said:
not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receiptsrick_chasey said:
Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.Stevo_666 said:
Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gasbriantrumpet said:I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.
(house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).
Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".
Honestly Stevo, don't do it.
The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.
If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.0 -
My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.0
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In Scotland the subsidies are paid from English taxation. In England it would seem like madness to incur the admin costs of taxation and subsidies to redistribute people's own money to themselves.john80 said:My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.
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It can be as many stages as you want, but more stages tend to add cost, complexity and the potential for doing bits of work twice.TheBigBean said:
Why isn't it a two stage process? Firstly do the insulation and keep the oil boiler. Secondly, when the boiler needs replacing, think about alternatives. I've never really liked the way that marketing for heat pumps seems to take credit for the insulation it requires.rjsterry said:
Save us from f***ing insulated plasterboard. The Devil's own building material. If you have solid walls, it can trap moisture on the inside of the masonry where it condenses (the insulation keeps the heat inside, so the wall actually gets colder moving the dew point inwards). Condensation inside a solid wall is not good. If you were to go for internal wall insulation, go for something vapour permeable. But external insulation is safer and easier to install.john80 said:
In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.rjsterry said:
This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.john80 said:
We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.rick_chasey said:
Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.surrey_commuter said:
not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receiptsrick_chasey said:
Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.Stevo_666 said:
Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gasbriantrumpet said:I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.
(house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).
Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".
Honestly Stevo, don't do it.
The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.
If you are re-roofing, extending the eaves to cover external wall insulation is not a big extra cost. Yes, as a standalone project, getting your house from an EPC grade D or E up to something close to Passivhaus is of course a big job but as part of general refurbishment - e.g. roof needed doing anyway - the extra over is more manageable. And as you say, you can tackle the job a bit at a time by sorting the most draughty bits first. And you don't need to go full Passivhaus for an ASHP to work; just enough so that slightly oversized radiators running at lower surface temperature can do the job. We've also done a few projects where a smaller ASHP is backed up by a wood burner or gas boiler (or could be oil) for just those really cold days when the ASHP would be flat out.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
🙄.surrey_commuter said:
In Scotland the subsidies are paid from English taxation. In England it would seem like madness to incur the admin costs of taxation and subsidies to redistribute people's own money to themselves.john80 said:My sister has an ashp in her new build but in Scotland there are a large number of loans and energy subsidies that make this not a million miles off the cost of a gas system. I don't think these subsidies or loans are available in england for the time being.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.0
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Likewise always thought Cambridge was rural it's certainly classed as so on our network.surrey_commuter said:
I am struggling to think of Cambridge as non-ruralDorset_Boy said:
He lives in Cambridge, and gives the impression he doesn't like leaving the urban areas, unless in a train or in a car! He'd probably collapse in shock and panic if he went to the rural parts of the fens.surrey_commuter said:
he lives in the FensDorset_Boy said:
Of course he hasn't. It's patently obvious from his comments that he's never been outside an urban area, and never encountered mud.TheBigBean said:
You haven't seen many former farmworkers houses then?rick_chasey said:
My terraced house that is the size of a shoebox that has access to giggabit fibre broadband says otherwise.surrey_commuter said:
the bizarre thing about this debate is that by any sensible definition you are in the sticksrick_chasey said:
Charming. Don't take it so seriously :Pwebboo said:
If you are an example of urban progress, god help humanity.rick_chasey said:Yikes. You learn something every day.
I guess it's just more evidence that progress doesn't reach people in the sticks.So Far!0 -
Stick the insulation on the outside, that way you get to use the brickwork as a heat-store and prevent temperature fluctuations. Extend the roof tiles a tad or cap the top of the insulation with a taper at the top. job done. Saves a packet over the disruption of internal and lets face it, cavity insulation is never put in properly.john80 said:
In my case it would require a re-roof of the existing house to change the membrane under the tiles as this is on the way out and needs done in the next ten years anyway then install a modern amount of insulation in the voids. I would probably have to go round each room of the old house and apply insulated plasterboard as adding the insulation to the external walls would probably not work with the minimal tile overlap at the eaves. Good few thousand there. I might as well stick with oil.rjsterry said:
This is not actually as difficult as you imply, especially if you are doing some renovation work anyway as many do when moving into somewhere new. And the PV is not essential - just a good way to offset the cost of running the heat pump.john80 said:
We replaced a oil boiler and tank a few years ago like for like. There is a tank gauge so you know where you are with quantity and I have never had to wait more than say 7 days for a fill. It is a pretty cheap way to heat a house and if serviced yearly is pretty reliable for say the 10 year boiler life. In rural places with no gas it is a no brainer in terms of cost. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if you can bring your probably old house up to modern regs for both air changes and insulation and have room to install substantial solar then a air source heat pump might work.rick_chasey said:
Honestly, I have never heard so much whining from people about oil fired houses.surrey_commuter said:
not so much the faff as the cost!!!! I would ask to see a few years delivery receiptsrick_chasey said:
Oh mate, don't do it! I couldn't tell you how long I've listened to people whine about how much faff that is.Stevo_666 said:
Funnily enough, the house we're buying has oil fired central heating and no gasbriantrumpet said:I'm just waiting for Stevo to say that he's got plenty of gas for his boiler.
(house buying attempt #2 after the last one fell through).
Christ alive. The regular days off to take delivery. The general maintenance. Running out of oil before the season is over. Delays in oil delivery. My favourite, the "my house is so big it's so much to heat. Oi, can you do that work so I can deliver it to the client and charge the next fee which i get 50% off and you none".
Honestly Stevo, don't do it.
The point about solar is the cost of electricity is pretty high at the minute. Heat pumps are often 10kw plus appliances and run a fair amount of the winter. Without any self generation this is going to get a lot more expensive than oil. I use about £600 or 1400 litres of oil a year to heat the house. Adding the new extension will hopefully reduce this a bit as I replaced a very drafty building but we will use more electricity as we have a electric aga in the kitchen that gives some heat load to the house.0 -
And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.kingstongraham said:Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.
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In fairness you would have got a sh1t deal when it ended anyway so you are only several weeks downkingstongraham said:
And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.kingstongraham said:Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.
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Indeed. Still a 50% increase, which will be difficult for some people.surrey_commuter said:
In fairness you would have got a censored deal when it ended anyway so you are only several weeks downkingstongraham said:
And now we will have to suck it up, because they've collapsed.kingstongraham said:Just looked at my gas and electricity bill. On a fixed rate till November, but if it finished now, the best deal I could get is a 50% increase on both.
It's an amazing new phenomenon, the business that just loses money on each customer until it goes pop.0 -
It would seem to me that starting up an energy billing business probably does not require that much capital. Set it up when prices are low. Get as ma.y customers as you can and the persuade some fools to invest in your business whilst getting paid a couple of million to run it. Prices go up, you fold with three years pay and the remaining companies and consumers pay your debts. What is not to like.0
