BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Grant Shapps out there saying how it's because of Brexit that he can make tests less strict and relax working hours rules, so Brexit is helping with this problem.
It's definitely bold.0 -
I wonder who tha gammons will blame if they can't fill up their Range Rovers?
The Government really don't want to take any easy and obvious fixes that might confirm Brexit is one of the main causes of any problem (like making it easy for foreign drivers to come and fill the gap while new British Drivers For British Trucks get trained).0 -
Fortunately, solar is by far the cheapest form of electricity in Aus, so it will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. A former Aus scientific advisor promoted the idea of covering Aus in solar panels and making vast amounts of hydrogen for export.kingstongraham said:
David Aaronovitch article. I assumed that the reason for the article was that there was no reason apart from it might be a popular stance.surrey_commuter said:Until reading an article in the Times I had not realised that Boris was a recent convert to the idea of man made climate change. The main thrust of the article was that the best thing he could do for the cause would be to explain why he has had such a dramatic change of mind.
The key bit in there was the bit about the Australian trade deal:
The second largest exporter of coal, after Indonesia, Australia was recently ranked bottom in the independent Climate Change Performance Index. The country is developing new mines, has no targets for renewables, plans on only a 26 to 28 per cent emissions reduction by 2030 and observers say that its plans don’t even meet that objective. It’s genuinely shocking.
Australian politics has worked in such a way that several prime ministers have in effect lost their jobs for promoting carbon reduction policies. The ultimate beneficiary has been the current prime minister, Scott Morrison. The man he ousted, the fellow conservative Malcolm Turnbull, said last year how “staggered” he was that “climate denialism still has the currency that it has, particularly given the evidence of the impact of climate change is now so apparent”.
Yet when Britain negotiated the famous trade deal with Australia earlier in the year, a clause including climate commitments and adherence to the 2015 Paris temperature goals was quietly dropped on the insistence of Morrison.0 -
I read an article this morning (can't remember whether it was the G or the Torygraph) claiming that around a third of UK HGC licence holders aren't currently active. So I guess if pay rates go up enough, a significant number of those currently not working might stock up on Yorkie Bars and take to the road again.rick_chasey said:
The gov't has repeatedly made the priorities clear and it is anti-immigration, including for lorry drivers.skyblueamateur said:The government still not thinking it might be an idea to issue temporary visa's to allow foreign drivers in to alleviate the problem in the short term?
Good for truckers. Not good for the customers who ultimately pay the higher wages.0 -
Because "I wanted to get into her knickers" isn't a very convincing reason for anyone else...surrey_commuter said:Until reading an article in the Times I had not realised that Boris was a recent convert to the idea of man made climate change. The main thrust of the article was that the best thing he could do for the cause would be to explain why he has had such a dramatic change of mind.
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
It would also suggest the quoted salaries of £50k+ are bowlocks or they could get in anywayskyblueamateur said:The government still not thinking it might be an idea to issue temporary visa's to allow foreign drivers in to alleviate the problem in the short term?
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The tipping could be when he doesn’t have enough juice to drive to the dump to empty his wheels binPross said:I wonder who tha gammons will blame if they can't fill up their Range Rovers?
The Government really don't want to take any easy and obvious fixes that might confirm Brexit is one of the main causes of any problem (like making it easy for foreign drivers to come and fill the gap while new British Drivers For British Trucks get trained).0 -
I've seen a few things that suggest they re at best one offs, if they exist at all. They also aren't offered to new staff.surrey_commuter said:
It would also suggest the quoted salaries of £50k+ are bowlocks or they could get in anywayskyblueamateur said:The government still not thinking it might be an idea to issue temporary visa's to allow foreign drivers in to alleviate the problem in the short term?
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
The fact that even if true he sees that as a benefit is scary. The current working hours are pretty releaxed for someone who can be driving a 40t vehicle on a motorway at 60mph or through a crowded city street. Up to 60 hours a week, maximum of 15 hours a day with a 9 hour break and up to 4.5 hours before they need to take a 45 minute break (I would have more breaks than that if driving a car for that amount of time - our work travel policy is a break every 2 hours although we don't stipulate a length). I'm not sure how much more relaxed than that the Government considers safe!kingstongraham said:Grant Shapps out there saying how it's because of Brexit that he can make tests less strict and relax working hours rules, so Brexit is helping with this problem.
It's definitely bold.2 -
I assume it is based on an hourly rate for the maximum 60 hour week and simply multiplying that by 52 which actually wouldn't be allowed as they can only drive an average of 48 hours over a 17 week period but it is the sort of simplistic thing a journalist with a narrative uses.surrey_commuter said:
It would also suggest the quoted salaries of £50k+ are bowlocks or they could get in anywayskyblueamateur said:The government still not thinking it might be an idea to issue temporary visa's to allow foreign drivers in to alleviate the problem in the short term?
Edit - even if you just went for a 48 hour week and assumed they are working 52 weeks a year it would be an hourly rate of £20 which is plausible (the 60 hour week would be around £16 which I think is fairly common).0 -
TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
Christ! Panic, where's the best/easiest places to by fuel and bog roll?
Hopefully the mentioning of panic buying won't make millions of people start to feel the urge to panic buy?0 -
Panic.0
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The wife had to buy fuel on her way home from work this morning and said there were queues at the Tesco she went to. The petrol station across the road from me seems quiet at the moment but these things tend to escalate quite quickly and the site of queues at one filling station leads to people feeling they better get out there and fill up 'just in case'. I've got about 200 miles left in my tank so don't know whether to top up or use a lack of fuel for an excuse to stay at home.0
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The wife is due to head up to Nottingham to visit her Mother, she's currently trying to decide if she can claim that there's no fuel down here so she can't come up
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I did say in a subsequent post that their accounts looked dubious and that they were funding it out of customer's money which shouldn't be allowed.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
Government literally having to tell people not to panic buy.
The state of this place.
Moronic all round.0 -
It's always very Dad's Army when they say that - "They're telling us not to panic so there must be something they are worried we'll panic about".rick_chasey said:Government literally having to tell people not to panic buy.
The state of this place.
Moronic all round.0 -
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
Except the customer's credit balance is being underwritten by other larger companies/ofgem.darkhairedlord said:
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
They signed up with them, due diligence and all that.TheBigBean said:
Except the customer's credit balance is being underwritten by other larger companies/ofgem.darkhairedlord said:
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.0 -
Who? The customers? We don't lose anything. I'm in debit with them anyway, but customers in credit have that balance protected.darkhairedlord said:
They signed up with them, due diligence and all that.TheBigBean said:
Except the customer's credit balance is being underwritten by other larger companies/ofgem.darkhairedlord said:
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.
It's those who haven't been with the cheapest supplier that's now gone bust that are paying for that protection.0 -
Just seen a report that there's likely to be a shortage of fireworks. So Guy Fawkes might not get blown up this year.
Carrie is catholic isn't she?0 -
The generators and gas extractors.kingstongraham said:
Who? The customers? We don't lose anything. I'm in debit with them anyway, but customers in credit have that balance protected.darkhairedlord said:
They signed up with them, due diligence and all that.TheBigBean said:
Except the customer's credit balance is being underwritten by other larger companies/ofgem.darkhairedlord said:
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.
It's those who haven't been with the cheapest supplier that's now gone bust that are paying for that protection.
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Ah right. Maybe them too. And the people who own the offices, any other suppliers etc.darkhairedlord said:
The generators and gas extractors.kingstongraham said:
Who? The customers? We don't lose anything. I'm in debit with them anyway, but customers in credit have that balance protected.darkhairedlord said:
They signed up with them, due diligence and all that.TheBigBean said:
Except the customer's credit balance is being underwritten by other larger companies/ofgem.darkhairedlord said:
no different from most retail operations. Customers pay on the day, the suppliers get paid 60 days later.Pross said:
That sounds a bit Ponsi-like. It will be interesting to see if any of these companies get done for fraud.kingstongraham said:TheBigBean said:
The owners will be out of pocket unless they made enough from the last year to recover their investments. Also, these firms will have PPAs in place with some generators. Those generators will be out of pocket as they won't get paid for the power they produced.kingstongraham said:
I agree - the issue is that if there is someone in the market willing to charge a lower price than is sensible, and there is no real downside for the consumer when they go pop - then they will get the custom. I'm sure that the owners are not personally out of pocket either.TheBigBean said:
There are broadly two choices (i) give all consumers smart meters and charge them a price related to the wholesale price (ii) accept there is a risk and manage as best as possible. The first option isn't going to happen, because consumers won't like the risk, therefore it defaults to the second option.kingstongraham said:
I'm sure it isn't easy, but if you are selling at fixed price and buying at a variable price, then you have to cross your fingers.TheBigBean said:
It's not that easy to hedge. I'm sure a gas hedge is relatively easy for a larger player, but that gives a basis risk for wholesale power markets. Plus, that won't hedge the demand, so there would still be volume risk. A small player will struggle with their credit rating for any form of hedging where the counter-party is taking a risk.kingstongraham said:
Yes, *if you are aiming for price sensitive switchers*, and pay for the hedge and someone else doesn't, your price is higher and you don't sell anything. So you underhedge and then you cross your fingers that this doesn't happen.Jezyboy said:
Presumably when you operate in a market where the only possible differentiator is price, all you can do is seek cost savings and at a certain point these become completely irresponsible.rick_chasey said:Just read that some of the suppliers are screwed because they hadn’t hedged their wholesale prices but are locked into their customer prices.
Madness.
The price cap should obviously be raised, but equally obviously will not be. If the regulator forces everyone to sell at a max price that makes everyone lose money, there's a fundamental problem.
Last year gas prices and power prices were at record lows, so presumably all the companies struggling now did very well then, as a result I have very little sympathy. It is the usual thing that always amazes me how people genuinely believe that they create the profit, so should have 100% of it, but the government should step in and help with any loss.
No one start a company, employs people, pays to market it etc. with a view to going bust and losing the entire investment.
It's those who haven't been with the cheapest supplier that's now gone bust that are paying for that protection.0 -
Cycled through Sheringham and Cromer this afternoon and can confirm the dumb Brexit voting wrinklies were queued up panic buying fuel. Thick as sh1t the lot of them.0
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Feel quite smug that I managed to do my sensible provisioning of diesel last night.
To be fair I have lots of cross country travelling to do this weekend and didn't have a lot of fuel left.0 -
as that will be the end of the delivery route that is probably wise behaviour. As Brexit voters they should of course be penalised when allocating deliveries.verylonglegs said:Cycled through Sheringham and Cromer this afternoon and can confirm the dumb Brexit voting wrinklies were queued up panic buying fuel. Thick as censored the lot of them.
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Fairly self selecting isn't it? AKA living in the sticks.surrey_commuter said:
as that will be the end of the delivery route that is probably wise behaviour. As Brexit voters they should of course be penalised when allocating deliveries.verylonglegs said:Cycled through Sheringham and Cromer this afternoon and can confirm the dumb Brexit voting wrinklies were queued up panic buying fuel. Thick as censored the lot of them.
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