BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

rjsterry

I think I have realised why Dorries was made SoS for Culture. She now has the final say on Listed Buildings, which is handy when your mates want to redevelop one.

ddraver

rick_chasey said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groningen_gas_field

Paging @ddraver

What's your question..?

Southern North Sea is Gas (UK, NL, a small amount Denmark and Germany). Groningen is the bigges in Europe but there are some biggies on our side of the pond. (Wytch Farm for example). The Dutch have a lot of onshore stuff too though which is always to cheaper to get at.

(As the writing on the wall became clearer and my own company pivoted toward geothermal, we'd run into a lot of problems where greenhouse owners would drill wells and "find oil" which they couldn't do anything with and screwed up their geothermal plans)

Confess if it's about long term energy policy though I think BB is your man

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

pblakeney said:

rick_chasey said:

Holland is a slightly unfair comparison as they drill their own gas

So does the UK. Oil and gas industry?

Different proportion

A proportion which will only increase as this genius government has decided to block future developments, before viable alternatives are in place.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/duncanweldon/status/1439701711413723146?s=21

Yikes.

The cap on that the SVR is going to feature in the big versus small State debate.

How many energy suppliers will go bust before they are forced to raise it?

TheBigBean

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Stevo_666 said:

rick_chasey said:

How are you getting on with the crowd funding for that time machine I suggested?

Well it was previously funded by the EU Horizon 2020 scheme but obviously that source of income has dried up and the U.K. govt was more interesting in spaffing it up on OneWeb which had “better looking returns” despite the fact it was a busted flush.

Busted flush just raised even more money. This time from Hanwha. This follows the investment from Eutelsat.

(It was the only OneWeb result in the forum search)

EU is mulling over ways to invest in a busted flush. (Source Telegraph, so not robust).

briantrumpet

This is still on The Sun website.

kingstongraham

Still, promises made, erm..

surrey_commuter

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

I don't disagree with you about the impact of insulation but surely the cost to retrofit a house would be unaffordable.

My knowledge is limited to moving from a house built in 1995 to one built in 1935 that was like a 1980s museum. When we moved in heating it was like standing under a downheater in that when it went off you got cold. As part of an extensive removation it is now a lot, lot better but if done as a standalone project for most people would it not be too expensive and disruptive with no chance of payback?

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

I don't disagree with you about the impact of insulation but surely the cost to retrofit a house would be unaffordable.

My knowledge is limited to moving from a house built in 1995 to one built in 1935 that was like a 1980s museum. When we moved in heating it was like standing under a downheater in that when it went off you got cold. As part of an extensive removation it is now a lot, lot better but if done as a standalone project for most people would it not be too expensive and disruptive with no chance of payback?

The balance has shifted significantly if most of us are now looking at £2kpa+ energy bills. Just endlessly saying it's too expensive is not going to solve the problem. Of course it's a big job but with big jobs come economies of scale. Local authorities and housing associations do this. The payback is not having your home uninhabitable.

surrey_commuter

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

I don't disagree with you about the impact of insulation but surely the cost to retrofit a house would be unaffordable.

My knowledge is limited to moving from a house built in 1995 to one built in 1935 that was like a 1980s museum. When we moved in heating it was like standing under a downheater in that when it went off you got cold. As part of an extensive removation it is now a lot, lot better but if done as a standalone project for most people would it not be too expensive and disruptive with no chance of payback?

The balance has shifted significantly if most of us are now looking at £2kpa+ energy bills. Just endlessly saying it's too expensive is not going to solve the problem. Of course it's a big job but with big jobs come economies of scale. Local authorities and housing associations do this. The payback is not having your home uninhabitable.

Do you see this as everybody doing something or getting every property up to a basic level?

I am genuinely interested as it is an area you know about that I agree with your hypothesis but I just can't get the maths to add up.

A total energy bill of £2k is probably £1k of heating - what % could people save? for what sort of outlay

Pross

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

Is insulation still that big an issue? We were entitled to free insulation when my daughter was having chemo and when the company came around to look at our early 70s Barratt house there was nothing left they could do (I think our lost insulation id probably a lot thinner that current regulations but going to the new standard would mean it would no longer give us any storage). Our garage conversion is a problem though - single skin blockwork and flat roof that is heated by a couple of oil filled electric radiators - it costs me a fortune in eletricity already!

kingstongraham

The SVR cap is only supposed to protect people who have not gone to a more reasonable rate from price gouging - I don't think this winter's max rate has been set yet, and that will be partly based on the wholesale price. So that should be set pretty effing high if they are doing their job, and the government can't rely on that to take away a hard task.

I expect there'll be some temporary suspension of the green taxes and VAT which can be sold as a Brexit win, and then bung some money to the companies to tide them through the winter without having to raise prices as much as the wholesale market would imply they should. This should stop there being too many news stories about Boris freezing grannies, and then they need to go the whole empathy route, "we're doing all we can, and it's only possible because we Brexited", and avoid telling people to just put on a jumper.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

The SVR cap is only supposed to protect people who have not gone to a more reasonable rate from price gouging - I don't think this winter's max rate has been set yet, and that will be partly based on the wholesale price. So that should be set pretty effing high if they are doing their job, and the government can't rely on that to take away a hard task.

I expect there'll be some temporary suspension of the green taxes and VAT which can be sold as a Brexit win, and then bung some money to the companies to tide them through the winter without having to raise prices as much as the wholesale market would imply they should. This should stop there being too many news stories about Boris freezing grannies, and then they need to go the whole empathy route, "we're doing all we can, and it's only possible because we Brexited", and avoid telling people to just put on a jumper.

Perhaps Jacob Rees-Smog could advise poor people to buy cashmere to keep warm, as it's so much better insulation than that terrible tat from Sports Direct that they normally wear.

rjsterry

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

Is insulation still that big an issue? We were entitled to free insulation when my daughter was having chemo and when the company came around to look at our early 70s Barratt house there was nothing left they could do (I think our lost insulation id probably a lot thinner that current regulations but going to the new standard would mean it would no longer give us any storage). Our garage conversion is a problem though - single skin blockwork and flat roof that is heated by a couple of oil filled electric radiators - it costs me a fortune in eletricity already!

I think this is a good example of the problem. It's not just insulation - although the number of properties with 9" solid brick walls and a bit of ragged loft insulation continues to surprise me. For each house or type there will be a different mix of insulation, window upgrades, heating system improvements, ventilation and maybe even some micro generation to achieve the optimum carbon reduction/£. Currently this has been dumbed down to 'have your wall cavities been done?' and handing out free loft roll. It is does also need some changes to the the planning legislation: currently, single glazed sash windows have attained a semi-sacred status with some Conservation Officers and 'Heritage' still seems to trump all other concerns, which is nuts when you think of the stakes involved.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

I don't disagree with you about the impact of insulation but surely the cost to retrofit a house would be unaffordable.

My knowledge is limited to moving from a house built in 1995 to one built in 1935 that was like a 1980s museum. When we moved in heating it was like standing under a downheater in that when it went off you got cold. As part of an extensive removation it is now a lot, lot better but if done as a standalone project for most people would it not be too expensive and disruptive with no chance of payback?

The balance has shifted significantly if most of us are now looking at £2kpa+ energy bills. Just endlessly saying it's too expensive is not going to solve the problem. Of course it's a big job but with big jobs come economies of scale. Local authorities and housing associations do this. The payback is not having your home uninhabitable.

Do you see this as everybody doing something or getting every property up to a basic level?

I am genuinely interested as it is an area you know about that I agree with your hypothesis but I just can't get the maths to add up.

A total energy bill of £2k is probably £1k of heating - what % could people save? for what sort of outlay

It's not that difficult to build buildings that require no active heating at all. It's more tricky to upgrade existing buildings but not impossible and existing buildings are what we've got. Just saying it is too hard a problem to solve is a cop out. Especially when the value of those buildings is often many times the cost of construction. For each building there will be an optimum set of improvements that will achieve the biggest energy/CO2 saving per £. There are also a lot of repeated building types, so there will be a lot of repetition in these optimum solutions.

We have the almost comically ineffectual EPC attached to every house sale. These are prepared by people with a couple of days training and a clipboard and are so useless as to be actively harmful. If the annual heating and maintenance costs were a required part of the sale particulars this might focus people's minds a little more. Even better if the cost of the possible upgrades was listed. I'm veering somewhat from the populist brief though.

Put it this way, if you bought a house with no central heating, a leaky roof and the windows were shot either the asking price would reflect that or you would negotiate a hefty discount to cover these necessary costs. We should apply the same to other improvements.

john80

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You need to understand that there is two parts to your energy bill. What the company producing the power gets paid and this contract is with the national grid. Then there is the call centre that does your billing. The production side is massively more profitable than the call centre side. So I would let the call centre side fail and be picked up by the remaining companies but really the only benefit of nationalisation is the production side as this is what you want to control. The billing side is simply an administration contract that could easily be competitively tendered in a nationalised system.

Pross

rjsterry said:

Pross said:

rjsterry said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

I am not a populist, but would let this particular fluctuation run its course. Nobody insulated anything before the '73 Oil crisis. If you are going to be a big state PM you could do a lot worse than a big hike in the Building Regs and a requirement to retro fit to existing buildings. 80% of the buildings we will use for the next century are already standing. You can offer whatever grants/loans people need to pay for this.

Is insulation still that big an issue? We were entitled to free insulation when my daughter was having chemo and when the company came around to look at our early 70s Barratt house there was nothing left they could do (I think our lost insulation id probably a lot thinner that current regulations but going to the new standard would mean it would no longer give us any storage). Our garage conversion is a problem though - single skin blockwork and flat roof that is heated by a couple of oil filled electric radiators - it costs me a fortune in eletricity already!

I think this is a good example of the problem. It's not just insulation - although the number of properties with 9" solid brick walls and a bit of ragged loft insulation continues to surprise me. For each house or type there will be a different mix of insulation, window upgrades, heating system improvements, ventilation and maybe even some micro generation to achieve the optimum carbon reduction/£. Currently this has been dumbed down to 'have your wall cavities been done?' and handing out free loft roll. It is does also need some changes to the the planning legislation: currently, single glazed sash windows have attained a semi-sacred status with some Conservation Officers and 'Heritage' still seems to trump all other concerns, which is nuts when you think of the stakes involved.

Having worked in several Georgian conversions in Bristol I can certainly identify with your last sentence. Draughty single glazed sash windows and, in my current office, a rickety Listed staircase that would be condemned as a H&S issue in any modern building (I wouldn't fancy my chances of surviving a fall against the bannister!). The floor is so uneven that when I was working there last week I was sliding off the front of my chair but the building is Georgian and in Bristol so what can you do?

I find it slightly ironic that my fairly modern and relatively energy efficient gas boiler is likely to need replacing as part of the move away from gas whereas the electricity I used, and which is a far higher proportion of my fuel cost, will probably remain reliant on gas generation.

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

The populist would brief the friendly press that the French want to stop us having a cup of tea after eastenders because the EU Bureaucrats won't allow them to send some power when everyone puts the kettle on at the same time.

They would then claim it's tantamount to an act of war, send gunboats into the channel and have it all kick off and if possible, cut some inevitably extremely expensive deal with the French to supply some power and claim victory.

2 years later you can claim that the French are gauging because they are awful foreigners and so to protect sovereignty you must make the power industry an autarky exercise and end up landing the population with more expensive power, but it is British power and doing so sticks it to the French who "lose out on the revenue"

how does that sound?

pblakeney

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

how does that sound?

Like The Express. 😉

rick_chasey

Another populist angle would be to say the country is "too full" and that it would be better if there were fewer foreigners using up Britain's allocated carbon allowance which should only be allowed for actual Brits, and so you go on a full blown "weed out the foreigners" campaign, with a sort of Child-Catcher-meets-Children-of-Men style of police state.

surrey_commuter

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

The populist would brief the friendly press that the French want to stop us having a cup of tea after eastenders because the EU Bureaucrats won't allow them to send some power when everyone puts the kettle on at the same time.

They would then claim it's tantamount to an act of war, send gunboats into the channel and have it all kick off and if possible, cut some inevitably extremely expensive deal with the French to supply some power and claim victory.

2 years later you can claim that the French are gauging because they are awful foreigners and so to protect sovereignty you must make the power industry an autarky exercise and end up landing the population with more expensive power, but it is British power and doing so sticks it to the French who "lose out on the revenue"

how does that sound?

awfully plausible?

kingstongraham

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

The populist would brief the friendly press that the French want to stop us having a cup of tea after eastenders because the EU Bureaucrats won't allow them to send some power when everyone puts the kettle on at the same time.

They would then claim it's tantamount to an act of war, send gunboats into the channel and have it all kick off and if possible, cut some inevitably extremely expensive deal with the French to supply some power and claim victory.

2 years later you can claim that the French are gauging because they are awful foreigners and so to protect sovereignty you must make the power industry an autarky exercise and end up landing the population with more expensive power, but it is British power and doing so sticks it to the French who "lose out on the revenue"

how does that sound?

awfully plausible?

Don't send gunboats, send submarines.

rick_chasey

kingstongraham said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

rick_chasey said:

surrey_commuter said:

So let's all imagine we are the populist PM with a magic money tree what would each of us do to stay popular when the electorate is faced with a potential doubling of their power bills costing some an extra £1k a year?

Testiculating until post-COP is a given

Keeping the SVR cap in place and nationalising supply companies as they go bankrupt would be a good leftie solution.

Abolishing green levies could save consumers up to a third and if replaced (with a vague promise) by general taxation would be far less regressive

You are not very good at this populist stuff.

You are too close to the issue. A populist would solve energy costs with providing free broadband and subsidies for firms who exclusively employ citizens with British passports.

Maybe send some gun boats down the channel too.

OK, will up my game. How about provoking a row with JF so he switches off the interconnectors? or failing that switch them off themselves and say that JF bullied Frosty/BoJo into it despite their bulldog spirit?

Admittedly it makes the problem worse but can now be blamed on Brussels

The populist would brief the friendly press that the French want to stop us having a cup of tea after eastenders because the EU Bureaucrats won't allow them to send some power when everyone puts the kettle on at the same time.

They would then claim it's tantamount to an act of war, send gunboats into the channel and have it all kick off and if possible, cut some inevitably extremely expensive deal with the French to supply some power and claim victory.

2 years later you can claim that the French are gauging because they are awful foreigners and so to protect sovereignty you must make the power industry an autarky exercise and end up landing the population with more expensive power, but it is British power and doing so sticks it to the French who "lose out on the revenue"

how does that sound?

awfully plausible?

Don't send gunboats, send submarines.

meh, they don't look so good on newspaper homepage.

john80

You guys are really getting your tinfoil hats on the go. The real answer to this problem is for the UK to go down a route of having some energy and food security and reversing some of the globalisation agenda if you can' handle some rough patches.

kingstongraham

john80 said:

You guys are really getting your tinfoil hats on the go. The real answer to this problem is for the UK to go down a route of having some energy and food security and reversing some of the globalisation agenda if you can' handle some rough patches.

How does that happen before this winter?

rick_chasey

john80 said:

You guys are really getting your tinfoil hats on the go. The real answer to this problem is for the UK to go down a route of having some energy and food security and reversing some of the globalisation agenda if you can' handle some rough patches.

Building resilience through international co-operation and sensible planning is a better idea than having a foreign policy that is orientated around mistrust of the world.