BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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If you dig into the innards of the tesla numbers they're not that great at manufacturing bit.surrey_commuter said:
it does make you wonder whether so many smart people are sleep walking towards their Kodak moment or whether they have a strategy. Could it be that with EV sales only making up 7% of the UK market they are happy to let others pay for the initial risks and then when common standards are agreed upon they will be ready to swing into action, leveraging their brands and dealerships to smash the start-up competition?darkhairedlord said:
Yup, car companies have been lazy by simply swapping the motor out on an IC vehicle. This is why the first cars were simply horse carriages with engines. It takes new entrants to design from the ground up as an ev.Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
So you wait for them to do the heavy lifting on design, batteries etc. Eventually, gravity will catch up with their manufacturing, and they'll either copy the IP for the batteries or just wholesale lift the talent out of tesla and do it on their own.
The car companies that are successful are those who can get enough economies of scale to make these things super cheap. Was the same with Ford 100 years ago, is the same now.
Aren't a huge amount of sensible investors who believe the STONKS guys that Tesla is not massively overvalued.
Once it drops to more realistic valuation another option would be to buy it up.
I suspect the Tesla strategy is the opposite, to get so big they can acquire a proper car company.0 -
Not sure about that - the really successful companies now are the likes of BMW who have managed to get a brand reputation that allows them a higher profit margin.rick_chasey said:The car companies that are successful are those who can get enough economies of scale to make these things super cheap. Was the same with Ford 100 years ago, is the same now.
Same reason that SUVs are so overhyped - they can make more money on them, simple as that.0 -
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
Both are relevant in my view.bompington said:
Not sure about that - the really successful companies now are the likes of BMW who have managed to get a brand reputation that allows them a higher profit margin.rick_chasey said:The car companies that are successful are those who can get enough economies of scale to make these things super cheap. Was the same with Ford 100 years ago, is the same now.
Same reason that SUVs are so overhyped - they can make more money on them, simple as that."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Big companies such as VW are a juggernaut always careering over a future abyss where there is a fundamental market change. In the beginning there are a couple of people rowing backwards whilst trying to direct the others to do the same. In the end they are all rowing backwards but is it in sufficient time to get away from the waterfall. In this case the market change is probably not so bad as the box will still have 4 wheels and just a different method of powering it. In the case of VW they have already invested in the next platform design specifically for electric vehicles. They just need the market to come to them with them essentially taking the profit from the IC cars and putting this into making the EV cars with little or no profit and high consumer price tag. I don't think that brands such as VW that are investing significant sums will do too badly as it is not a true Kodak business moment in that the underlying product is an evolution and not a dead industry. Those car companies that don't create specific platforms and try to make do and mend will likely fold. The Vauxhall Corsa springs to mind as and example of this possible outcome.surrey_commuter said:
it does make you wonder whether so many smart people are sleep walking towards their Kodak moment or whether they have a strategy. Could it be that with EV sales only making up 7% of the UK market they are happy to let others pay for the initial risks and then when common standards are agreed upon they will be ready to swing into action, leveraging their brands and dealerships to smash the start-up competition?darkhairedlord said:
Yup, car companies have been lazy by simply swapping the motor out on an IC vehicle. This is why the first cars were simply horse carriages with engines. It takes new entrants to design from the ground up as an ev.Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.0 -
In a similar vein, I wonder what the likes of Vaillant and Worcester Bosch are doing to plan for gas boilers being a 'legacy' product in 10 years time.surrey_commuter said:
it does make you wonder whether so many smart people are sleep walking towards their Kodak moment or whether they have a strategy. Could it be that with EV sales only making up 7% of the UK market they are happy to let others pay for the initial risks and then when common standards are agreed upon they will be ready to swing into action, leveraging their brands and dealerships to smash the start-up competition?darkhairedlord said:
Yup, car companies have been lazy by simply swapping the motor out on an IC vehicle. This is why the first cars were simply horse carriages with engines. It takes new entrants to design from the ground up as an ev.Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
Yeah that is your only two options here. Dave might we currently working for the city institution from home as you type.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
I think you are putting the cart before the horse. It's the most expensive part of Britain partly because it caters to those financial institutions.john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?0 -
Boris called it fantasticrick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?0 -
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?0 -
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?0 -
True. My immediate response was, meh. So we have a deal the same as we had.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
Not a negative, but not a positive, neutral. Meh.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery.."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Quite a few firms are going for an even cheaper option of moving it to the houses of their back office employees....Stevo_666 said:
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
For at least 5 years we have had jobs moving eastwards from San Fran to NYC to London to India. Also a regional hollowing out of Paris and Geneva.Stevo_666 said:
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..
We also did a bit of North Shoring to Brum though the bloke leading it when listing the benefits could not get past how short the train journey was and the office was only a short walk to New Street0 -
Wfh is fine when you have established employee relationships. But, with any relationship, the longer you are apart the more more the eye wanders.... how do you recruit new staff, build experience and develop new relationships if staff continue to wfh. I expect most firms will strike a balance and offload perhaps half of their office space in the medium term.rick_chasey said:
Quite a few firms are going for an even cheaper option of moving it to the houses of their back office employees....Stevo_666 said:
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
Our HRD has gone from talking about 2-3 days a week in the office to an expectation of 3-4 for the reasons you suggest.darkhairedlord said:
Wfh is fine when you have established employee relationships. But, with any relationship, the longer you are apart the more more the eye wanders.... how do you recruit new staff, build experience and develop new relationships if staff continue to wfh. I expect most firms will strike a balance and offload perhaps half of their office space in the medium term.rick_chasey said:
Quite a few firms are going for an even cheaper option of moving it to the houses of their back office employees....Stevo_666 said:
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..0 -
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Cheers, I certainly don't expect you to do the hunting but i was more interested in the list we have not rolled over and if we would notice the difference. Maybe the lack of a fuss suggests they are irrelevant.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-472138420 -
Sounds like it's only 3% of our trade at this point. It's the 49% with the EU we need to worry about.surrey_commuter said:
Cheers, I certainly don't expect you to do the hunting but i was more interested in the list we have not rolled over and if we would notice the difference. Maybe the lack of a fuss suggests they are irrelevant.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Of course, that 8% we are rolling over will soon be a much larger percentage of our trade. Problem solved.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Yup yup.darkhairedlord said:
Wfh is fine when you have established employee relationships. But, with any relationship, the longer you are apart the more more the eye wanders.... how do you recruit new staff, build experience and develop new relationships if staff continue to wfh. I expect most firms will strike a balance and offload perhaps half of their office space in the medium term.rick_chasey said:
Quite a few firms are going for an even cheaper option of moving it to the houses of their back office employees....Stevo_666 said:
I get the feeling that is already fairly well known. A fair bit of the City back office job losses have down to this (for example HSBC): anecdotally my Group has been doing similar, not necessarily removing jobs from the UK but moving them from higher cost locations around the region to 'shared service centres' in lower cost locations.surrey_commuter said:
and that any back office function that can be done in a cheaper part of the country/world is done in a cheaper part of the country/world.darkhairedlord said:
because that is where they will get the best return. If you were an investor with a few billion, do you put it in a city institution or with Dave from Grimsby?john80 said:
You keep believing that companies scientifically put their investment where they would generate the maximum return whilst ignoring human behaviour and group think. Maybe you think it is a coincidence that a large number of financial institutions locate themselves in the most expensive part of Britain.darkhairedlord said:
And I said "I would put my investors money where I could get the best return".john80 said:
Ok given you are such a self proclaimed smart guy. Do corporations tend to do their big changes in tech close to their head offices and centres of power or do they seek a region that only exists to enable the brand to increase its presence in markets outside this. This is particularly pertinent to BMW and the British brands it procured over a decade ago of which only mini remain and this is shrinking all the time. Maybe Facebook will do their development in Ireland instead of Silicon valley. Or maybe they will stick to their centres where their highly paid staff are.pblakeney said:
Of all the censored I have ever read on this site, that is the most contradictory, stupid thing yet. And I've read a lot of stupid censored .john80 said:
Yeah global car brands dont invest more heavily in far parts of their empire than the ones close to head office. It's usually a lot more to do with self interest than the best return.darkhairedlord said:
I would put my investors money where I could get the best return.john80 said:
This is what happens when you let your national car makers get bought up because you don't support manufacturing over the decade long periods it needs. If you were BMW would you pivot your business within your home nation to the benefit of your citizens where you live or spend your money in Britain creating an electric revolution. I know what I would do if I was that German exec..Pross said:
I'm aware of a small scale EV car company starting up, brand new company but backed by a self-made technology / engineering billionaire. Their aim is to get a factory up and running but also develop a hub at the site for major manufacturers to develop their EV production.morstar said:
On a positive note, it secure some mid-term jobs but 100% a death sentence on your job.pblakeney said:
“Here you go. That’ll keep you busy until redundancy..”john80 said:
It's almost as if they are trying to shaft British workers.coopster_the_1st said:
The UK industry certainly needs to pivot rapidly and the signs are there's nobody leading that pivot.
Wonder how EV's an military procurement are being envisaged?
Many of the major manufacturers seem to still be a long way behind the curve on EVs and ultimately they'll end up like Kodak did, failing to adapt and going from household name to destruction.
If they don't do that, investors money will go elsewhere or the board will be removed.
It has nothing to do with centres of power, next to their office or whatevery..
Some firms the cultural split between back and front office is greater than others, and in some firms it is definitely seen as a deeply transactional function and they treat and expect their back staff to behave in an equally transactional way.0 -
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.-2 -
Someone will be along shortly to point out that it was not a lie but some lower form of incorrect statement or maybe that it was never said at all. Stupid vote leave people.coopster_the_1st said:
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.0 -
Right so both sides are tilting at windmills?john80 said:
Someone will be along shortly to point out that it was not a lie but some lower form of incorrect statement or maybe that it was never said at all. Stupid vote leave people.coopster_the_1st said:
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.0 -
are you sure that "grandfathering trade deals" was even a thing back in 2016?coopster_the_1st said:
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.
Leave argued we were going to gain from doing bespoke deals so why would there have been a discussion about the likelihood of grandfathering existing deals?0 -
Did they?coopster_the_1st said:
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.0 -
I said equivalence and that could easily be applied to trade deals in the grandfathering term. Taking Canada as an example we are no worse off and can now work towards an improved trade deal for both parties.surrey_commuter said:
are you sure that "grandfathering trade deals" was even a thing back in 2016?coopster_the_1st said:
Another remain lie punctured.pangolin said:
"While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.surrey_commuter said:
I thought the response had been rather muted on all sides.TheBigBean said:
The plan is to renegotiate it in due course for the benefit of both sides. I suspect celebrations are because a lot of people said grandfathering deals wouldn't be possible. The tribal nature of Brexit seems to be like that.rick_chasey said:Can someone explain to me why Brexiters are celebrating signing a trade agreement with Canada that acts as a continuation of the existing agreement it had as part of the EU?
I thought the whole point of Brexit was to be free from the awfulness of EU led trade deals?
Do we know how many more need to be rolled over and if anybody will notice if we don’t?
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. This represents about 8% of total UK trade, based on 2018 figures. But it is clear that new deals with some countries will not be ready in time."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47213842
Remoaners said we would not be able to grandfather trade deals.
Leave argued we were going to gain from doing bespoke deals so why would there have been a discussion about the likelihood of grandfathering existing deals?0
