BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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So we have a choice. Choice is always good.rjsterry said:
I don't doubt it. I think it's an internationally recognised political tactic. The point still stands, though, as it has done since before Brexit.Stevo_666 said:
It is also interesting to note that last time Macron publically talked tough on Brexit, he was conveniently deflecting from his French domestic problems at the time. Now France just happens to be in the first phase of a potentially long and damaging dispute over pension rights...rjsterry said:Since this is the Brexit thread, interesting to note that Macron has been quick to remind Johnson that wide ranging access to the SM requires wide ranging alignment. Obviously.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Of course. A choice with consequences either way. Some would have us believe that there are choices without consequences.Stevo_666 said:
So we have a choice. Choice is always good.rjsterry said:
I don't doubt it. I think it's an internationally recognised political tactic. The point still stands, though, as it has done since before Brexit.Stevo_666 said:
It is also interesting to note that last time Macron publically talked tough on Brexit, he was conveniently deflecting from his French domestic problems at the time. Now France just happens to be in the first phase of a potentially long and damaging dispute over pension rights...rjsterry said:Since this is the Brexit thread, interesting to note that Macron has been quick to remind Johnson that wide ranging access to the SM requires wide ranging alignment. Obviously.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The remainers not being single issue comes in to play less if parties start standing aside for one another. Possibly campaigning to come together and govern in coalition for a limited time to sort brexit/a second ref, could have worked.surrey_commuter said:
I doubt it would make much difference as Remainers tend not to be single issue headbangers, this is why a GE is not a proxy for a referendum.Jeremy.89 said:
It would be interesting to see what a remain/2nd vote electoral pact could have achieved...rjsterry said:Also (forgot to post this earlier) did anyone else hear Farage trying to claim credit for the Tory win because if he hadn't stood down those 300-odd idiots he persuaded to be candidates...
Or whether a more serious campaign by the Brexit party would have split the tory vote at all...
It's interesting that Corbyns leadership is strongly given as a reason for not voting Labour , because he is socialist, but his economic policies are not given as a reason for not voting Labour.
Your second point just means that most people don’t understand that his economic policies are because he is a socialist.
I remember when Kinnock lost and about 5% of people said they did not vote for him because he was Welsh and a similar number because he was ginger.
The reasons for not voting Labour may well mean that after their "period of reflection" they keep the same economic policies. On the face of it, they would be justified...0 -
They have plenty of time out of power to reflect away. Whether their economic policies were a put off to many voterd or not is irrelevant for quite some time now. Thankfully.Jeremy.89 said:
The remainers not being single issue comes in to play less if parties start standing aside for one another. Possibly campaigning to come together and govern in coalition for a limited time to sort brexit/a second ref, could have worked.surrey_commuter said:
I doubt it would make much difference as Remainers tend not to be single issue headbangers, this is why a GE is not a proxy for a referendum.Jeremy.89 said:
It would be interesting to see what a remain/2nd vote electoral pact could have achieved...rjsterry said:Also (forgot to post this earlier) did anyone else hear Farage trying to claim credit for the Tory win because if he hadn't stood down those 300-odd idiots he persuaded to be candidates...
Or whether a more serious campaign by the Brexit party would have split the tory vote at all...
It's interesting that Corbyns leadership is strongly given as a reason for not voting Labour , because he is socialist, but his economic policies are not given as a reason for not voting Labour.
Your second point just means that most people don’t understand that his economic policies are because he is a socialist.
I remember when Kinnock lost and about 5% of people said they did not vote for him because he was Welsh and a similar number because he was ginger.
The reasons for not voting Labour may well mean that after their "period of reflection" they keep the same economic policies. On the face of it, they would be justified..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Who said that?rjsterry said:
Of course. A choice with consequences either way. Some would have us believe that there are choices without consequences.Stevo_666 said:
So we have a choice. Choice is always good.rjsterry said:
I don't doubt it. I think it's an internationally recognised political tactic. The point still stands, though, as it has done since before Brexit.Stevo_666 said:
It is also interesting to note that last time Macron publically talked tough on Brexit, he was conveniently deflecting from his French domestic problems at the time. Now France just happens to be in the first phase of a potentially long and damaging dispute over pension rights...rjsterry said:Since this is the Brexit thread, interesting to note that Macron has been quick to remind Johnson that wide ranging access to the SM requires wide ranging alignment. Obviously.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Who said that?Stevo_666 said:
Of course. A choice with consequences either way. Some would have us believe that there are choices without consequences.Stevo_666 said:
So we have a choice. Choice is always good.rjsterry said:
I don't doubt it. I think it's an internationally recognised political tactic. The point still stands, though, as it has done since before Brexit.Stevo_666 said:
It is also interesting to note that last time Macron publically talked tough on Brexit, he was conveniently deflecting from his French domestic problems at the time. Now France just happens to be in the first phase of a potentially long and damaging dispute over pension rights...rjsterry said:Since this is the Brexit thread, interesting to note that Macron has been quick to remind Johnson that wide ranging access to the SM requires wide ranging alignment. Obviously.
I think there was a famous quote by someone about having cake and eating it. The gist of it has been endlessly repeated by him and his supporters: that divergence from the EU is possible without impact on our economy.
If he had said: we've looked at it and it will negatively affect these sectors, but this will be outweighed by growth in these other sectors. Furthermore we will put in place X to ease that transition, then I might have more time for him. Now that he has a decent majority he has the freedom to take a more considered position; I hope he uses that freedom wisely.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's aways surprising when someone who thinks of themselves as a capitalist doesn't actually want any competition!Stevo_666 said:
They have plenty of time out of power to reflect away. Whether their economic policies were a put off to many voterd or not is irrelevant for quite some time now. Thankfully.Jeremy.89 said:
The remainers not being single issue comes in to play less if parties start standing aside for one another. Possibly campaigning to come together and govern in coalition for a limited time to sort brexit/a second ref, could have worked.surrey_commuter said:
I doubt it would make much difference as Remainers tend not to be single issue headbangers, this is why a GE is not a proxy for a referendum.Jeremy.89 said:
It would be interesting to see what a remain/2nd vote electoral pact could have achieved...rjsterry said:Also (forgot to post this earlier) did anyone else hear Farage trying to claim credit for the Tory win because if he hadn't stood down those 300-odd idiots he persuaded to be candidates...
Or whether a more serious campaign by the Brexit party would have split the tory vote at all...
It's interesting that Corbyns leadership is strongly given as a reason for not voting Labour , because he is socialist, but his economic policies are not given as a reason for not voting Labour.
Your second point just means that most people don’t understand that his economic policies are because he is a socialist.
I remember when Kinnock lost and about 5% of people said they did not vote for him because he was Welsh and a similar number because he was ginger.
The reasons for not voting Labour may well mean that after their "period of reflection" they keep the same economic policies. On the face of it, they would be justified...
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Ha. Quite.Jeremy.89 said:
It's aways surprising when someone who thinks of themselves as a capitalist doesn't actually want any competition!Stevo_666 said:
They have plenty of time out of power to reflect away. Whether their economic policies were a put off to many voterd or not is irrelevant for quite some time now. Thankfully.Jeremy.89 said:
The remainers not being single issue comes in to play less if parties start standing aside for one another. Possibly campaigning to come together and govern in coalition for a limited time to sort brexit/a second ref, could have worked.surrey_commuter said:
I doubt it would make much difference as Remainers tend not to be single issue headbangers, this is why a GE is not a proxy for a referendum.Jeremy.89 said:
It would be interesting to see what a remain/2nd vote electoral pact could have achieved...rjsterry said:Also (forgot to post this earlier) did anyone else hear Farage trying to claim credit for the Tory win because if he hadn't stood down those 300-odd idiots he persuaded to be candidates...
Or whether a more serious campaign by the Brexit party would have split the tory vote at all...
It's interesting that Corbyns leadership is strongly given as a reason for not voting Labour , because he is socialist, but his economic policies are not given as a reason for not voting Labour.
Your second point just means that most people don’t understand that his economic policies are because he is a socialist.
I remember when Kinnock lost and about 5% of people said they did not vote for him because he was Welsh and a similar number because he was ginger.
The reasons for not voting Labour may well mean that after their "period of reflection" they keep the same economic policies. On the face of it, they would be justified...0 -
Who said that? I'm just trying to get a competitive advantage. And have just succeeded.rick_chasey said:
Ha. Quite.Jeremy.89 said:
It's aways surprising when someone who thinks of themselves as a capitalist doesn't actually want any competition!Stevo_666 said:
They have plenty of time out of power to reflect away. Whether their economic policies were a put off to many voterd or not is irrelevant for quite some time now. Thankfully.Jeremy.89 said:
The remainers not being single issue comes in to play less if parties start standing aside for one another. Possibly campaigning to come together and govern in coalition for a limited time to sort brexit/a second ref, could have worked.surrey_commuter said:
I doubt it would make much difference as Remainers tend not to be single issue headbangers, this is why a GE is not a proxy for a referendum.Jeremy.89 said:
It would be interesting to see what a remain/2nd vote electoral pact could have achieved...rjsterry said:Also (forgot to post this earlier) did anyone else hear Farage trying to claim credit for the Tory win because if he hadn't stood down those 300-odd idiots he persuaded to be candidates...
Or whether a more serious campaign by the Brexit party would have split the tory vote at all...
It's interesting that Corbyns leadership is strongly given as a reason for not voting Labour , because he is socialist, but his economic policies are not given as a reason for not voting Labour.
Your second point just means that most people don’t understand that his economic policies are because he is a socialist.
I remember when Kinnock lost and about 5% of people said they did not vote for him because he was Welsh and a similar number because he was ginger.
The reasons for not voting Labour may well mean that after their "period of reflection" they keep the same economic policies. On the face of it, they would be justified...
I think Jez is just trying to do the Cake Stop thing and knock a winner
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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Which ones are they?rick_chasey said:You always support policies which reduce competition, directly or otherwise.
I've just shown how the last claim wasn't true so you need some new ones."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ok mate keep telling yourself that. I’ve mentioned it *so many times* so if you didn’t listen then you won’t now.0
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OK - so when challenged to produce examples, you have no reply.rick_chasey said:Ok mate keep telling yourself that. I’ve mentioned it *so many times* so if you didn’t listen then you won’t now.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
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Utter incompetence, as far as I can tell.TheBlueBean said:
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
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No doubt someone will do some polling, but the revoke policy and the talk of Swinson being a potential PM didn't play well. Also Labour activists weren't just attacking the Tories.TheBlueBean said:
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Just heard some numpty Tory winner, might have been Wrexham, not sure, on the radio news just now. Saying people in her constituency want better services and NHS. But the Cons have been in power for the past decade and run down said services. Peepul are so fxxking stupid. Talk bollox and the numpties go, yeah you're right.
Do you reckon BloJo will be back up in 'former Labour heartland' when Nissan close the Sunderland plant because Blojo can't sort out a sensible trade agreement with most of their market?0 -
An example might be joining a political party you detest, so you can vote for leader who will be unelectable.Stevo_666 said:
OK - so when challenged to produce examples, you have no reply.rick_chasey said:Ok mate keep telling yourself that. I’ve mentioned it *so many times* so if you didn’t listen then you won’t now.
This would indicate you were scared of the competition.
Because they might elect a leader who might win.0 -
Misjudged revoke, Swinson didn’t land well and a lot of fear of the other side of labour/Tories getting in (so going for the bigger party to be sure), in that order.TheBlueBean said:
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
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I think it goes back way beyond the GE... how, in the vacuum of the centre ground, and with both major parties effectively in favour of Brexit, the LDs weren't able to capitalise on the own goals the others were scoring, is a mystery to me... it's just like they weren't there, or if they were there, they weren't trying.rick_chasey said:
Misjudged revoke, Swinson didn’t land well and a lot of fear of the other side of labour/Tories getting in (so going for the bigger party to be sure), in that order.TheBlueBean said:
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
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It’s really really hard when the electorate removes all the experience and talent.
Wouldn’t underestimate that.0 -
And, if Private Eye is to be believed, Vince Cable wasn't exactly dynamic in the role of leading it while he was there, at one of the most pivotal points in British politics in a long while... and, I guess, without a party machine to provide direction.rick_chasey said:It’s really really hard when the electorate removes all the experience and talent.
Wouldn’t underestimate that.0 -
I think the message that a vote not for Labour or the Tories (i.e. mainly Lib Dem in England) is a wasted vote cuts through and this time more than most.TheBlueBean said:
I'm interested in why the LDs failed so badly, and this seat is a good example.Pross said:
Trying to work out why people voted as they did in individual constituencies this time around is pointless. It would be interesting comparing the colour map with one from the 80s!TheBlueBean said:Hornsey and Wood Green voted 75% remain in the Brexit vote. It was a Lib Dem seat for 10 years to 2015. How did Labour manage to retain this with a 20,000 majority? This is Labour's worst performance in years which must mean this is astonishingly bad by the Lib Dems.
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briantrumpet said:
And, if Private Eye is to be believed, Vince Cable wasn't exactly dynamic in the role of leading it while he was there, at one of the most pivotal points in British politics in a long while... and, I guess, without a party machine to provide direction.rick_chasey said:It’s really really hard when the electorate removes all the experience and talent.
Wouldn’t underestimate that.
This rings true.0 -
There is a sea border in the new WA. Given that NI politics may take a more progressive turn based on events of last 48hrs, this development might be very slightly less toxic that it has been.pblakeney said:
The border problem has been solved?TheBlueBean said:
Not according to the EU. The previous WA contained level playing field provisions and didn't solve the border problem.rick_chasey said:Re Brexit, the whole NI / GB border becomes a lot easier if there’s some locked in regulatory “level playing field” with the EU.
Anyone sensible would.....never mind.
You think that because BJ says so? 🤣🤣🤣
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What’s the Tony Blair joke before he got elected?
“Some activists were complaining that the polices were so successful even Tories were voting for us”0 -
The level of denial I see of FB friends is of such a level that I won't be surprised if some of them say that obviously they'd have been more successful if they'd been really radical, and hadn't been held back by that Blairite McDonnell...rick_chasey said:What’s the Tony Blair joke before he got elected?
“Some activists were complaining that the polices were so successful even Tories were voting for us”0 -
Wrong. Just getting a competitive advantage as I said above.webboo said:
An example might be joining a political party you detest, so you can vote for leader who will be unelectable.Stevo_666 said:
OK - so when challenged to produce examples, you have no reply.rick_chasey said:Ok mate keep telling yourself that. I’ve mentioned it *so many times* so if you didn’t listen then you won’t now.
This would indicate you were scared of the competition.
Because they might elect a leader who might win."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Classic bad loser attitude. Why am I not surprised?orraloon said:Just heard some numpty Tory winner, might have been Wrexham, not sure, on the radio news just now. Saying people in her constituency want better services and NHS. But the Cons have been in power for the past decade and run down said services. Peepul are so fxxking stupid. Talk bollox and the numpties go, yeah you're right.
Do you reckon BloJo will be back up in 'former Labour heartland' when Nissan close the Sunderland plant because Blojo can't sort out a sensible trade agreement with most of their market?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Ah I didn’t realise that getting a competitive advantage meant having no moral scruples.Stevo_666 said:
Wrong. Just getting a competitive advantage as I said above.webboo said:
An example might be joining a political party you detest, so you can vote for leader who will be unelectable.Stevo_666 said:
OK - so when challenged to produce examples, you have no reply.rick_chasey said:Ok mate keep telling yourself that. I’ve mentioned it *so many times* so if you didn’t listen then you won’t now.
This would indicate you were scared of the competition.
Because they might elect a leader who might win.0
