BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

tailwindhome

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

The NI only backstop won't be the thing that prevents it passing.

What will then?

*If* he succeeds in removing the level playing field protections he'll lose the Labour votes he'll need to be sure.

tailwindhome

100 years ago today the British Govt began work on the partioning of Ireland



https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/book ... 5?mode=amp

rick_chasey

TailWindHome wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

The NI only backstop won't be the thing that prevents it passing.

What will then?

*If* he succeeds in removing the level playing field protections he'll lose the Labour votes he'll need to be sure.

That would be a *very* big win if he got that, no?

TheBigBean

TailWindHome wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

The NI only backstop won't be the thing that prevents it passing.

What will then?

*If* he succeeds in removing the level playing field protections he'll lose the Labour votes he'll need to be sure.

I'm not sure that is true. I think there are a number of Labour MPs who will vote for a deal.

kingstongraham

Throw a confirmatory ref in there and it'll pass. Unless he's chicken.

Pross

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surely the DUP would never vote for it?

Are they relevant anymore?

mugensi

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surely the DUP would never vote for it?

I don't think anyone cares what they think or vote for anymore. They no longer hold any leverage in government and their votes aren't really required as many MP's will vote for a deal rather than leave with no deal or face another few months or longer like the last few. It was ridiculous that the DUP were allowed to hold government to ransom for so long. I hope the people of NI punish them in the GE because they certainly don't represent any majority in NI.

imposter2.0

TailWindHome wrote:

100 years ago today the British Govt began work on the partioning of Ireland



https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/book ... 5?mode=amp

Won't be long now before the Black & Tans are re-established...

tailwindhome

MugenSi wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Surely the DUP would never vote for it?

I don't think anyone cares what they think or vote for anymore. They no longer hold any leverage in government and their votes aren't really required as many MP's will vote for a deal rather than leave with no deal or face another few months or longer like the last few. It was ridiculous that the DUP were allowed to hold government to ransom for so long. I hope the people of NI punish them in the GE because they certainly don't represent any majority in NI.

In fairness polling suggests their position has 95% support among their own supporters.

elbowloh

KingstonGraham wrote:

Throw a confirmatory ref in there and it'll pass. Unless he's chicken.

chlorinated?

elbowloh

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal, which in turn was worse than staying in the EU.

Incredible the amount of self-harm people are willing to commit rather than admit that they were wrong.

coopster_the_1st

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

This is excellent news.

haydenm

Slowbike wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

Alejandrosdog wrote:

And yet the Scottish government is still only focused on independence

I think you'll find they are keen to be a member of the EU. Why would you want to be part of a narrow minded country with an over-inflated sense of self importance that seems to be focussed on p1ssing off everyone it deals with? Not surprised Sturgeon is pushing it - if I was Scottish I'd probably vote for Independence now and I think it is a terrible idea. She'll likely win. Another Brexit bonus. Going to be a barrel of laughs if you live on the border but I suppose constructing the fence and customs posts will provide some new jobs.

It's an argument they'll use - but isn't it just an excuse to have another IR which was a "once in a lifetime opportunity" the last time ... another case of "if we don't get the answer we want, we'll just ask again and again, until we get the right answer" ?

The origonal quote was something like 'a once in a lifetime opportunity unless there is some political change' or something, leaving the EU is quite a big political change. The guy talking about it on the radio yesterday suggested that a change in Westminster government also constituted a political change which is clearly bullsh!t in this context.

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

robert88

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal, which in turn was worse than staying in the EU.

Incredible the amount of self-harm people are willing to commit rather than admit that they were wrong.

Johnson's primary goal is to gain power for himself and his backers. If there is no deal the task of deflecting blame will be the next stage and considerable resources used to that aim.

Democracy has SFA to do with any of this, it's just a soundbite.

elbowloh

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

haydenm

KingstonGraham wrote:

Throw a confirmatory ref in there and it'll pass. Unless he's chicken.

I can't see any other way through other than Johnson's deal passed with a confirmatory referendum. I would say it should have been remain vs a deal 3 years ago but we needed to get to this point for find out what the final deal was actually going to be.

I can't see the public ever being allowed to vote for no deal though, everyone knows it's dangerous apart from the few who will vote for it. That is an undemocratic view but it is also reality.

rjsterry

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

But clean sounds so much better than years of protracted trade negotiations.

rolf_f

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

He means no deal and he will never understand this point until it happens (and probably not then either). This weird belief of many people who seem to think that Brexit will magically cease to dominate the news and the work of Govt and the Public sector for the next few decades once it has happened baffles me.

tailwindhome

The Conservative spin seems to be that this is a deal that can get through the House.

Remarkable stuff.


Boris has in effect forced the EU to reopen the WA at the last minute to remove the concessions they had given May.

coopster_the_1st

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

Use the search, it has been referenced many times before

There's no such thing as no-deal Brexit as there are lots of side deals already waiting to start if we get a clean Brexit

TheBigBean

TailWindHome wrote:

The Conservative spin seems to be that this is a deal that can get through the House.

Remarkable stuff.


Boris has in effect forced the EU to reopen the WA at the last minute to remove the concessions they had given May.

You're not putting any value on consent then?

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

Use the search, it has been referenced many times before

There's no such thing as no-deal Brexit as there are lots of side deals already waiting to start if we get a clean Brexit

How is it a clean break with all those deals?

Let's call it a chaotic Brexit, as that takes the emotion out of it.

pblakeney

HaydenM wrote:

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

...looks at the mess Westminster is in and how long brexit will run and run for and thinks, hmmm...

coopster_the_1st

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

Use the search, it has been referenced many times before

There's no such thing as no-deal Brexit as there are lots of side deals already waiting to start if we get a clean Brexit

How is it a clean break with all those deals?

Let's call it a chaotic Brexit, as that takes the emotion out of it.

Chaotic takes the emotion out of it It's only chaotic in remoaners minds as they have to believe this to keep Brexit as a negative.

Remoaners hate the term 'clean Brexit' because it does not fit with their negative narrative(see above).

coopster_the_1st

PBlakeney wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

...looks at the mess Westminster is in and how long brexit will run and run for and thinks, hmmm...

I wonder how inconsequential the Scottish circle would look on Stevo's favourite EU chart

haydenm

PBlakeney wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

...looks at the mess Westminster is in and how long brexit will run and run for and thinks, hmmm...

This has been going on for years and only at the very worst point does polling look like its over 50%, once we are back to standard brexit drudgery it'll all be forgotten.*

*Unless they get given a date and the campaign runs away with itself like the Brexit campaign...

haydenm

Coopster the 1st wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

...looks at the mess Westminster is in and how long brexit will run and run for and thinks, hmmm...

I wonder how inconsequential the Scottish circle would look on Stevo's favourite EU chart

I thought being a big economy in the EU was a bad thing because you subsidize all the smaller ones?

haydenm

Coopster the 1st wrote:

KingstonGraham wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

elbowloh wrote:

So, looks like we might end up with a deal that was worse than the May deal

Taking your speculation at face value, if the deal that Boris is negotiating is worse than the May deal it should be rejected and we then have a clean Brexit. Doing anything else puts the Tories at the mercy of the Brexit Party. In this situation I would certainly vote for TBP at the next election, as would millions of others.

WTF is a clean Brexit? If you mean no-deal, then I think this would be far from "clean".

Use the search, it has been referenced many times before

There's no such thing as no-deal Brexit as there are lots of side deals already waiting to start if we get a clean Brexit

How is it a clean break with all those deals?

Let's call it a chaotic Brexit, as that takes the emotion out of it.

Chaotic takes the emotion out of it It's only chaotic in remoaners minds as they have to believe this to keep Brexit as a negative.

Remoaners hate the term 'clean Brexit' because it does not fit with their negative narrative(see above).

It's a statement of fact that several trade deals with no start date or anything agreed is more chaotic than one deal with the EU that'll start immediately with as little friction as possible. Might be a good thing, we will never know, but it's not clean is it...

Stevo_666

HaydenM wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

HaydenM wrote:

Polling is at 50% for Scottish Independence but I can't see it happening fast enough to capitalise on the brexit mess and the peak in support will subside.

...looks at the mess Westminster is in and how long brexit will run and run for and thinks, hmmm...

I wonder how inconsequential the Scottish circle would look on Stevo's favourite EU chart

I thought being a big economy in the EU was a bad thing because you subsidize all the smaller ones?

Scotland may well find out to their cost what lack of subsidy feels like if they get independence. (I'm pretty relaxed about it BTW).