BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

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  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Dunning-Kruger....
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Fenix wrote:
    Hmmm maybe only a truly dim person would have the lack of intelligence to proclaim how clever they are ?
    Especially with absolutely no evidence to back their claim up.

    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    Anything we do short of forgetting the whole stupid idea gives us a considerably worse deal.

    That attitude is so dumb that I have less respect for them than people how want less immigration
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/201 ... he-change/
    Boris wrote:
    There is only one way to get the change we need, and that is to vote to go, because all EU history shows that they only really listen to a population when it says No. The fundamental problem remains: that they have an ideal that we do not share. They want to create a truly federal union, e pluribus unum, when most British people do not.

    It is time to seek a new relationship, in which we manage to extricate ourselves from most of the supranational elements. We will hear a lot in the coming weeks about the risks of this option; the risk to the economy, the risk to the City of London, and so on; and though those risks cannot be entirely dismissed, I think they are likely to be exaggerated. We have heard this kind of thing before, about the decision to opt out of the euro, and the very opposite turned out to be the case.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.

    Fenix is making stuff up in an attempt to discredit Leavers but all he is doing is discrediting himself.

    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    The EU have refused to negotiate and respect the electorates views as they think we won't leave. As the EU have shown this contempt to the UK electorate and our democracy, we walk away. Doing anything else puts the EU political project as more important than UK democracy and the views of the UK population. This can never be allowed to happen as politicians serve us and not the other way around.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,328
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    This can never be allowed to happen as politicians serve us and not the other way around.
    Mwuhahahahahahahaha.......
    hahahahahahahhaha....
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.

    Fenix is making stuff up in an attempt to discredit Leavers but all he is doing is discrediting himself.

    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    Confused gibberish

    You still haven't managed to say what you want aside from "a better deal" which means nothing.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Rolf F wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    "Owning the libtards" is a good reason for some folk.

    Governance by trolling the right people.

    I assume Dog would claim to be smarter than that.

    Mmmmmm his entire politics revolves around it, it seems.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.

    Fenix is making stuff up in an attempt to discredit Leavers but all he is doing is discrediting himself.

    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    The EU have refused to negotiate and respect the electorates views as they think we won't leave. As the EU have shown this contempt to the UK electorate and our democracy, we walk away. Doing anything else puts the EU political project as more important than UK democracy and the views of the UK population. This can never be allowed to happen as politicians serve us and not the other way around.

    Are you saying they should have negotiated a deal with our government by which we would leave? Or they should have come and proposed an improved deal for us to stay in?
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    I'm no lawyer (clearly)..
    Does this sound like the government has caved on prorogation? It came about after being pressed on government ministers and pm refusing to provide a witness statement...

    "Eadie says he wants to get something in writing as to what might be done in terms of “relief” (ie, what the government would have to do if the court found against it).

    He says the options available to the government would depend on the reasoning of the court.

    He says the government will make a suggestion in writing, if that is not inconvenient.

    Lady Hale, the president of the court, says it will be inconvenient if the court does not have it by tomorrow afternoon.

    Eadie says he wants to provide it overnight"
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.

    Fenix is making stuff up in an attempt to discredit Leavers but all he is doing is discrediting himself.

    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    The EU have refused to negotiate and respect the electorates views as they think we won't leave. As the EU have shown this contempt to the UK electorate and our democracy, we walk away. Doing anything else puts the EU political project as more important than UK democracy and the views of the UK population. This can never be allowed to happen as politicians serve us and not the other way around.

    Are you saying they should have negotiated a deal with our government by which we would leave? Or they should have come and proposed an improved deal for us to stay in?
    He doesn't know anymore, no-one knows, even Alejandrosdog doesn't know.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    What is the bad deal we are supposedly getting?

    bearing in mind that all negotiations require a degree of compromise and you can't get something for nothing.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    I'm no lawyer (clearly)..
    Does this sound like the government has caved on prorogation? It came about after being pressed on government ministers and pm refusing to provide a witness statement...
    The case could still go either way. Some decent arguments being put forward on both sides as I see it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    It's fascinating that leaving the EU wasn't a definite red line, even for you.
  • darkhairedlord
    darkhairedlord Posts: 7,180
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    It's fascinating that leaving the EU wasn't a definite red line, even for you.
    he read something in a post on facebook, it had a lot of likes!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.


    Nicholas Soames uses the hashtag #franklyunhelpfulgrandstanding which is worthy of one of the MFs.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    I'm no lawyer (clearly)..
    Does this sound like the government has caved on prorogation? It came about after being pressed on government ministers and pm refusing to provide a witness statement...
    The case could still go either way. Some decent arguments being put forward on both sides as I see it.

    The arguments don't feel massively opposing though.

    One side is saying it's unlawful for x reasons, and the other seems to be saying "it's nonyabusiness".

    Just imagine what it'd have been like had Blair & Blunkett not removed the Lord Chancellor and created the supreme court!!!
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.
    _
  • fenix
    fenix Posts: 5,437
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    KingstonGraham wrote:
    Fenix wrote:
    As a remainer - I've been asking Leave voters for reasons for their votes for 3 years. The best responses I've had were from people saying that they didnt expect to win, and don't actually want to leave - but thought a close call would shake up the EU a bit and we'd get more concessions for a better deal.

    That was almost Boris' position, I think I recall. And Coopster would have been OK with that. Apart from they wanted to win, which is understandable. Without winning, the EU wouldn't have given us a renegotiated deal. And then that didn't happen at all.

    Fenix is making stuff up in an attempt to discredit Leavers but all he is doing is discrediting himself.

    Leavers, including myself, wanted a better deal because we are getting a bad deal from the EU. Any staying in the EU following this better deal was the proclaimed 'compromise' to remainers but we had to have an improved deal for this to happen.

    The EU have refused to negotiate and respect the electorates views as they think we won't leave. As the EU have shown this contempt to the UK electorate and our democracy, we walk away. Doing anything else puts the EU political project as more important than UK democracy and the views of the UK population. This can never be allowed to happen as politicians serve us and not the other way around.

    Sorry - what have i made up ? I didn't say all leavers expected to win - in particular these opinions were from the 2 work colleagues who told me this.

    I fail to see how I made anything up or how I have discredited myself ?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Mate, he can't understand words properly, give up.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.

    Do you think the UK would hold a press conference next to people protesting against a visitor? Even if the protesters were nationals of the visitor's country. This situation (not the poorly placed pressed conference) happens a lot e.g. whenever the US president visits, or the Chinese president.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.

    Do you think the UK would hold a press conference next to people protesting against a visitor? Even if the protesters were nationals of the visitor's country. This situation (not the poorly placed pressed conference) happens a lot e.g. whenever the US president visits, or the Chinese president.

    No, nor have I said that. As per what I said before, what's of note is that Lux even thought about doing it, with the UK. That respect the UK had clearly isn't quite there atm.
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    I'm no lawyer (clearly)..
    Does this sound like the government has caved on prorogation? It came about after being pressed on government ministers and pm refusing to provide a witness statement...
    The case could still go either way. Some decent arguments being put forward on both sides as I see it.

    The arguments don't feel massively opposing though.

    One side is saying it's unlawful for x reasons, and the other seems to be saying "it's nonyabusiness".

    Just imagine what it'd have been like had Blair & Blunkett not removed the Lord Chancellor and created the supreme court!!!
    Different sets of arguments, true. But both have some validity.

    Let's see what happens.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,408
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.
    I don't care who the protesters were. Bettel should have showed the sort of common courtesy that should be extended to any visiting PM/head of state instead of pulling that stunt.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.
    I don't care who the protesters were. Bettel should have showed the sort of common courtesy that should be extended to any visiting PM/head of state instead of pulling that stunt.

    You wonder if BoJo has ever said something about Europe or the EU that would generate such a lack of courtesy?
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    darkhairedlord wrote:
    I'm no lawyer (clearly)..
    Does this sound like the government has caved on prorogation? It came about after being pressed on government ministers and pm refusing to provide a witness statement...
    The case could still go either way. Some decent arguments being put forward on both sides as I see it.

    The arguments don't feel massively opposing though.

    One side is saying it's unlawful for x reasons, and the other seems to be saying "it's nonyabusiness".

    Just imagine what it'd have been like had Blair & Blunkett not removed the Lord Chancellor and created the supreme court!!!
    Different sets of arguments, true. But both have some validity.

    Let's see what happens.

    Suspect you'd have a different view if it was Corbyn proroguing parliament to enact some Venezuelan style rulez, but whatevs.
    _
  • mamil314
    mamil314 Posts: 1,103
    You didn't and you haven't. I often got similar responses as well, and some of leavers were dumbstruck 'Holy $#!£, our votes have consequences!'
  • Alejandrosdog
    Alejandrosdog Posts: 1,975
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    In the meantime, looks like the Luxembourg stunt pulled by their PM is backfiring a tad. How difficult would it have been to move the press conference indoors? :roll:

    Even Sir Nicholas Soames is saying that it was bad form:
    https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/17/boris-ambushed-luxembourg-pm-empty-podium-trick-10755306/

    And a close ally of Merkel has tweeted that it did not help the EU cause.

    I think Bettel has earned himself a Eurotw@t award.

    It ought to be noted that the lot making the racket outside were indeed Brits living in Lux, who, perhaps not unfairly, are not enormous fans of the No Deal approach BoJo has said he's taking.
    I don't care who the protesters were. Bettel should have showed the sort of common courtesy that should be extended to any visiting PM/head of state instead of pulling that stunt.

    You wonder if BoJo has ever said something about Europe or the EU that would generate such a lack of courtesy?

    undoubtedly Johnson has but it doesn't excuse the discourtesy.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
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    _

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