BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴

crispybug2

The thing that sticks in mind is that this court ruling took less than five minutes, that doesn’t seem long enough for a decision of this magnitude


Or am I missing something?

rjsterry

The hearing was just to present the decision, I think. Not the consideration of the case.

Jez mon

rjsterry wrote:

“Neither Nigel Farage nor Arron Banks are fit and proper persons and they should never be allowed anywhere near government.”

So that's a no to the election pact.

So he's alienated the moderate Conservatives, now he's going after the nutters.

In the words of dodgeball,

It's a bold strategy Cotton.

Stevo_666

Jez mon wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

“Neither Nigel Farage nor Arron Banks are fit and proper persons and they should never be allowed anywhere near government.”

So that's a no to the election pact.

So he's alienated the moderate Conservatives, now he's going after the nutters.

In the words of dodgeball,

It's a bold strategy Cotton.

Bit of a no win situation to be fair, as I think I know what you would have said had he gone for an alliance with Farage and Banks.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

“Neither Nigel Farage nor Arron Banks are fit and proper persons and they should never be allowed anywhere near government.”

So that's a no to the election pact.

So he's alienated the moderate Conservatives, now he's going after the nutters.

In the words of dodgeball,

It's a bold strategy Cotton.

Bit of a no win situation to be fair, as I think I know what you would have said had he gone for an alliance with Farage and Banks.

Farage needs a pact to get anywhere, hence all the "your worst enemy" bluster. The idea that the Conservatives would step aside in 90-odd seats was always pretty far-fetched. Besides, possibly not winning a majority is one thing; torching the party is quite another.

surrey_commuter

TailWindHome wrote:

David Allen Green
@davidallengreen
·
5m
Today, in summary

For the first time a court - and not just any court, but the highest court of one of the constituent nations of the United Kingdom - ruled that the Prime Minister had knowingly misled the Sovereign

If
@UKSupremeCourt
concurs, the Prime Minister must resign

Somebody quoted another david Allen green who said there was zero chance of this happening

Jez mon

Stevo 666 wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

“Neither Nigel Farage nor Arron Banks are fit and proper persons and they should never be allowed anywhere near government.”

So that's a no to the election pact.

So he's alienated the moderate Conservatives, now he's going after the nutters.

In the words of dodgeball,

It's a bold strategy Cotton.

Bit of a no win situation to be fair, as I think I know what you would have said had he gone for an alliance with Farage and Banks.

Meh, I would be concerned by an allience, but that is in large part because I think it would have a good chance of success.

I just think the Venn diagram of people happy to pursue no deal, and people that would go so far in their criticism of Farage and Banks to claim they are not fit and proper, doesn't overlap too far...

For the record I don't think it's a surprise that they don't want to go with a pact, it's just the severity of the refusal that I find slightly surprising.

surrey_commuter

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

You almost sound disappointed

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

You almost sound disappointed

Vindicated that my view on Project Fear was right all along.

There is more impact to the UK when we have a couple of days of snow than in that document.

Pross

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

You almost sound disappointed

Vindicated that my view on Project Fear was right all along.

There is more impact to the UK when we have a couple of days of snow than in that document.

So you are seriously equating the document being short to there not being much risk? You don't think there's a chance that they just haven't put enough thought into the contingencies or are simply unable to work out what the risks are? If it was this simple all along why hasn't it been published previously? Business could have been reassured and maybe there would have been less resistance to a No Deal Brexit.

rjsterry

By the way, Rosamund Urwin who reported the leaked version in August, has tweeted that the redacted section is that ND will render UK refined petrol uncompetitive for export. The plan for 0% tariff on imports will mean that they undercut UK refineries. In other words UK refineries will go the way of sheep farmers.

Exactly like a couple of days of snow.

tailwindhome

Kwasi Kwarteng

"Many people are saying I'm not saying this, but many people..are saying that the judges are biased the judges are getting involved in politics. I'm just saying what people are saying."

rjsterry

TailWindHome wrote:

Kwasi Kwarteng

"Many people are saying I'm not saying this, but many people..are saying that the judges are biased the judges are getting involved in politics. I'm just saying what people are saying."

Oh no, Kwasi you're not saying it. Oh perish the thought. Nigel would be proud of you not saying that.

robert88

rjsterry wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Kwasi Kwarteng

"Many people are saying I'm not saying this, but many people..are saying that the judges are biased the judges are getting involved in politics. I'm just saying what people are saying."

Oh no, Kwasi you're not saying it. Oh perish the thought. Nigel would be proud of you not saying that.

It's pure Trumpism. Disgusting that it s crossing the Atlantic.

surrey_commuter

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

cougie

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

You almost sound disappointed

Vindicated that my view on Project Fear was right all along.

There is more impact to the UK when we have a couple of days of snow than in that document.

Christ what a liar you are.

6 months of disruption of medicine ?
Protests ?

2 days wait for lorries in ferry Terminals ?
Businesses failing ?

For whatever reason you have there's nothing that would stop you advocation this ridiculous plan.

And yes it does seem that they've just released the very basic summary.

There is no way that's the full document. How many people have worked on that ? Any business would be used to risk assessments being far longer for far simpler situations.

They are still hiding the details.

coopster_the_1st

TailWindHome wrote:

Kwasi Kwarteng

"Many people are saying I'm not saying this, but many people..are saying that the judges are biased the judges are getting involved in politics. I'm just saying what people are saying."

Finally a politician that does actually know what people are thinking. They are a rare beast...

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

One of the other points is that on D1ND, there may be 288 non-UK fishing vessels in UK waters and that we are unlikely to have the resources to do much about it.

Gove was tweeting last night that this was worst case scenario, not base case, which is odd as the same text was leaked in August without the redacted section on two fuel refineries closing and a title stating it was a base case scenario.

coopster_the_1st

cougie wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Yellowhammer released.

Most noteworthy aspect is that it is 6 (six) pages of A4. My missus does more planning than that for a two week holiday.

Also, the only change from the one leaked in August is the title. You know who will be along in a while to denounce it as Project Fear.

You would think with over 3 years of project fear to call on they could come up with more than 4 & a bit pages. Very underwhelming...

You almost sound disappointed

Vindicated that my view on Project Fear was right all along.

There is more impact to the UK when we have a couple of days of snow than in that document.

Christ what a liar you are.

6 months of disruption of medicine ?
Protests ?

2 days wait for lorries in ferry Terminals ?
Businesses failing ?

For whatever reason you have there's nothing that would stop you advocation this ridiculous plan.

And yes it does seem that they've just released the very basic summary.

There is no way that's the full document. How many people have worked on that ? Any business would be used to risk assessments being far longer for far simpler situations.

They are still hiding the details.

6 months disruption in medicine has already been debunked by the Chief Medical Officer who has said the plans are in place.

Protests. That will be those anti-democratic losers. Boohoo to them. Everyone else will be getting on with life...

Queues at Dover. Boring. Done this before. We had 6 weeks of queues & long disruption in 2015 and there was not one report of supermarket shelves being empty or of medicine shortages. It's complete nonsense

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

One of the other points is that on D1ND, there may be 288 non-UK fishing vessels in UK waters and that we are unlikely to have the resources to do much about it.

What is your position on this illegal activity by EU fishermen?

rolf_f

Coopster the 1st wrote:

6 months disruption in medicine has already been debunked by the Chief Medical Officer who has said the plans are in place.

Phew. Thank heaven for that. Someone has said the plans are in place. I think we can all rest easy now......

kingstongraham

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Queues at Dover. Boring. Done this before. We had 6 weeks of queues & long disruption in 2015 and there was not one report of supermarket shelves being empty or of medicine shortages. It's complete nonsense

That was not continuous, was only Calais, and was estimated to cost the UK economy £250m a day.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/58954 ... -take-toll

my kids have no cucumber - it's shocking.

A spokesman for Lidl admitted that the Calais strike has been affecting stock, but said teams were doing all they can to help suppliers take food through alternative ports.

bobmcstuff

Surrey Commuter wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

David Allen Green
@davidallengreen
·
5m
Today, in summary

For the first time a court - and not just any court, but the highest court of one of the constituent nations of the United Kingdom - ruled that the Prime Minister had knowingly misled the Sovereign

If
@UKSupremeCourt
concurs, the Prime Minister must resign

Somebody quoted another david Allen green who said there was zero chance of this happening

Was the same guy - his published article in the FT today is a bit more nuanced than his tweet which said there was a zero chance of the supreme court upholding that decision. His article today says that they may overturn it, but it is far from certain.

The Scottish legal system is different to the English one which leads to different interpretations:

"Scottish constitutional law, in particular, does not share the deference to prerogative powers of its English counterpart. There are no “no-go areas” in the constitution for an unimpressed Scottish judge"

The key was that the government didn't present a statement in their own defence:

"the government did not present an account of why and how the decision to prorogue was taken. There was no sworn witness statement from a minister or senior civil servant. Because of this, it was open to the judges to find that the reason for the prorogation was a bad one and not that officially stated — that it was for preparing for the new Queen’s Speech, which sets out the government’s legislative plans for the coming parliamentary session"

So it sounds fairly likely that the Supreme Court will come to a different conclusion, but it is not guaranteed.

(https://www.ft.com/content/12097e7c-d47 ... 7ebd53ab77 source - behind paywall)

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

One of the other points is that on D1ND, there may be 288 non-UK fishing vessels in UK waters and that we are unlikely to have the resources to do much about it.

What is your position on this illegal activity by EU fishermen?

Not sure I have one. On the face of it their activities would I think become illegal overnight but the report seems to suggest that enforcing that is well down the list of priorities. That seems sensible.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

One of the other points is that on D1ND, there may be 288 non-UK fishing vessels in UK waters and that we are unlikely to have the resources to do much about it.

What is your position on this illegal activity by EU fishermen?

Not sure I have one. On the face of it their activities would I think become illegal overnight but the report seems to suggest that enforcing that is well down the list of priorities. That seems sensible.

The UK fishermen will be very motivated to make sure their livelihoods are protected so will enforce this enmass.

Pross

Coopster the 1st wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Kwasi Kwarteng

"Many people are saying I'm not saying this, but many people..are saying that the judges are biased the judges are getting involved in politics. I'm just saying what people are saying."

Finally a politician that does actually know what people are thinking. They are a rare beast...

When you say "knows what the people are thinking" I assume you mean "knows what me and like minded people are thinking"? As you might have noticed the country is split down the middle so it's impossible say "this is what the people are saying / thinking". If we are going by majorities then a poll on the proroguing issue showed 47% were against compared to 24% in favour so the judges are in line with the people on that and we know you like the will of the people to be followed.

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

No food shortages, just a reduction in availability and choice.

Am amazed they are not considering the possibility that French fishymen may blockade Calais in response to being banned from our waters on 1st November.

One of the other points is that on D1ND, there may be 288 non-UK fishing vessels in UK waters and that we are unlikely to have the resources to do much about it.

What is your position on this illegal activity by EU fishermen?

Not sure I have one. On the face of it their activities would I think become illegal overnight but the report seems to suggest that enforcing that is well down the list of priorities. That seems sensible.

The UK fishermen will be very motivated to make sure their livelihoods are protected so will enforce this enmass.