BREXIT - Is This Really Still Rumbling On? 😴
Comments
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Mmm. Not everyone thinks like you. A hung parliament would provide some well needed inertia.Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
Its all very well supporting the promise of more wealth by doing deals with all the countries who aren't beating our door down, but even if that were to happen, it wouldn't be you personally I'm afraid, because you aren't already rich.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
I 100% agree with those benefits.
However, with a comfortable Conservative/leave majority (they are talking 50-70 currently) the SNP loonies become inconsequential. They only have the current visibility because of the current make-up of Parliament. With a 50+ Tory/Leave majority they can sit on the green seats working out how long "once in a generation" really is
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Coopster the 1st wrote:However, with a comfortable Conservative/leave majority (they are talking 50-70 currently) the SNP loonies become inconsequential. They only have the current visibility because of the current make-up of Parliament. With a 50+ Tory/Leave majority they can sit on the green seats working out how long "once in a generation" really is
You can 'lol' even more when they declare UDI, just like Rhodesia..0 -
I can tell you've thought this through.Coopster the 1st wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
I 100% agree with those benefits.
However, with a comfortable Conservative/leave majority (they are talking 50-70 currently) the SNP loonies become inconsequential. They only have the current visibility because of the current make-up of Parliament. With a 50+ Tory/Leave majority they can sit on the green seats working out how long "once in a generation" really is
I would point out that the SNP are probably actually in favour of leave, because it creates their mandate. They probably also want to risk a second referendum on Brexit (which would probably still be "leave") because it strengthens their won case to have another one. Even if at that stage we remained, there is so much angst up here that they could stick an Indyref2 policy in their manifesto and claim a manadate for one, using the second Brexit referendum to support their right for their own.
So, if you listen to Scottish politics, what they actually do is present completely unreasonable demands in a conciliatory way, essentially in my view doing nothing much to find any middle ground. After all, their whole aim is independence within the EU, all by 2021 if they are to be believed, so they shouldn't much care how bad it will be for rUK.
That's the thing about single issue politics isn't it - whether its Brexit or Scexit, the ends start to justify the means.0 -
First Aspect wrote:
You don't know your politics very well. The SNP used to be known as the "Tartan Tories". Their policies at the moment are cake and more cake, so they are everything to everyone. The reality, when you look closer, is that they aren't very good at funding public services and that the already awful economic model will require them to keep business taxation very low. So they aren't very left wing really. They are popularist - not the same thing.Stevo 666 wrote:
Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
You also shouldn't want Indyref2 for your own good. Scotland is actually marginally richer than the UK average, and accounts for around 10% of the economy. I think it would sting a bit.
You totally lost credibility with the last para.0 -
KingstonGraham wrote:
Interesting - on those surveys I only see 7 showing a Leave vote and 48 for Remain.
And the last poll showing we wanted to leave was almost 2 years ago.
People are sick and tired of Brexit and want it dead and buried.0 -
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?0 -
But instead we will be put out of our misery.Fenix wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:
Interesting - on those surveys I only see 7 showing a Leave vote and 48 for Remain.
And the last poll showing we wanted to leave was almost 2 years ago.
People are sick and tired of Brexit and want it dead and buried.0 -
Fenix wrote:KingstonGraham wrote:
Interesting - on those surveys I only see 7 showing a Leave vote and 48 for Remain.
And the last poll showing we wanted to leave was almost 2 years ago.
People are sick and tired of Brexit and want it dead and buried.
Unfortunately, Brexity type things won't ever go away if you do Brexit.
Things like fees for access to the EU market need to be renegotiated every so often. The UK trade agreement with the EU will be revisited as things change, etc.0 -
Well then it really could become Singapore on Thames!First Aspect wrote:
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?
City state with very high GDP per capita surrounded by a country with a much lower GDP per capita, although presumably it would be a financial hub rather than a trade hub.0 -
The interesting part is working out how the polls turn into seats right?
I suspect that upon an election being called, a sufficiently soft position on brexit or a policy to have another referendum would result in labour climbing. The Conservatives were the grown up and responsible party, but have let a internal issue grind biritish politics to a halt for 3 years. What do they have to pursuade floating voters? Not a lot.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
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Cost of living would spike as well though wouldn't it, because you'd be replacing trade withing the UK with trade between states? And you'd think the grotty leftovers would do what's best for them, rather than what's best for London as it is now. And you also assume there's a need for a one trick pony financial city state in Europe. There's a fair bit of competition, no?bobmcstuff wrote:
Well then it really could become Singapore on Thames!First Aspect wrote:
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?
City state with very high GDP per capita surrounded by a country with a much lower GDP per capita, although presumably it would be a financial hub rather than a trade hub.0 -
Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
Sadly, this guy is more right than he realises. Throughout western countries, Kremlin managed to engage the previously silent masses of 'they're all thieves anyways, why bother voting' via the magic of social media, and coupling 'advisors' to populist politicians. It is way cheaper than developing modern tanks and jets and is well effective as entire political constructs crumble. Divide and conquer, indeed. Hey, maybe russians will undercut oil prices for the UK to lure more fools out of EU0 -
Thank god people like Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg are here to rescue us from the elite.0
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Jez mon wrote:The interesting part is working out how the polls turn into seats right?
I suspect that upon an election being called, a sufficiently soft position on brexit or a policy to have another referendum would result in labour climbing. The Conservatives were the grown up and responsible party, but have let a internal issue grind biritish politics to a halt for 3 years. What do they have to pursuade floating voters? Not a lot.
it might be that whilst they're generally unappealing the alternative is far worse....0 -
I watched a bit of Parliament Live last night whilst that one was speaking ... first time I've heard him ... hopefully the last time too ..KingstonGraham wrote:Thank god people like Boris and Jacob Rees Mogg are here to rescue us from the elite.
and ... what is all the point scoring on about? They're supposed to be governing this country and all they can do is discuss the meaning of Limbo ...
They wonder why the public have a view that they're a waste of time/space/money and they spout out that sort of cr4p... may as well just read the cake stop!0 -
First Aspect wrote:
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?
You said losing Scotland would “sting a bit” this is wrong.
S.E on its own probably would be better off financially0 -
Yep. If someone on here can point to a better alternative that has a hope in hell of getting elected, then we can consider that.Alejandrosdog wrote:Jez mon wrote:The interesting part is working out how the polls turn into seats right?
I suspect that upon an election being called, a sufficiently soft position on brexit or a policy to have another referendum would result in labour climbing. The Conservatives were the grown up and responsible party, but have let a internal issue grind biritish politics to a halt for 3 years. What do they have to pursuade floating voters? Not a lot.
it might be that whilst they're generally unappealing the alternative is far worse...."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If wanting the party you support to do better is being totalitarian, then there are a lot of them in Cake Stop.Imposter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:
Are you, by any chance, a totalitarian..?? You appear to want parliament populated by representatives of only one persuasion (ie yours)..
Anyhow, it isn't me who is trying to detach Scotland from the UK, I am simply looking to the potential benefits of the actions of others
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
If the SNP were known as that it's a long time since they have acted that way as I cant remember it. New Old Labour may have labelled them that as Labour is to left of pretty everything else in politics.First Aspect wrote:
You don't know your politics very well. The SNP used to be known as the "Tartan Tories". Their policies at the moment are cake and more cake, so they are everything to everyone. The reality, when you look closer, is that they aren't very good at funding public services and that the already awful economic model will require them to keep business taxation very low. So they aren't very left wing really. They are popularist - not the same thing.Stevo 666 wrote:
Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:Coopster the 1st wrote:First Aspect wrote:Frankly we are all better of with a hung parliament, to stop any of the current crop of nutters achieving too much.
We really are not!
A GE will demonstrate the anger and contempt the electorate has with the current parliament.
It is going to be fantastic watching parliament facing up to the realisation that they were way out of touch with the electorate. The same process that the Conservative Party has done since the EU elections
You also shouldn't want Indyref2 for your own good. Scotland is actually marginally richer than the UK average, and accounts for around 10% of the economy. I think it would sting a bit.
As for the funding of Scotland, the Barnett formula:
https://fullfact.org/economy/how-barnett-formula-flawed-favour-scotland-and-northern-ireland/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI64einMGy5QIVCNreCh09ZgTAEAAYASAAEgLjQfD_BwE
and the facts:
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/scottish-income-tax-shortfall-offset-by-uk-funding
would indicate that it won't really 'sting' us. Although in any event the potential reduced whingeing from the likes of Ian Blackford is hard to put a price on.
Still, it's your choice and if you think you can overcome a few minor hurdles like not having your own currency and breaking even financially relying on an inflated oil price assumption, then be my guest."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
If wanting the party you support to do better is being totalitarian, then there are a lot of them in Cake Stop.Imposter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:
Are you, by any chance, a totalitarian..?? You appear to want parliament populated by representatives of only one persuasion (ie yours)..
Anyhow, it isn't me who is trying to detach Scotland from the UK, I am simply looking to the potential benefits of the actions of others
It's just that you said you wanted to remove "50 lefties". Perhaps you'd like them "lined up against a wall and shot" as well?0 -
Mmm. You all do get that I'm actually very strongly AGAINT Scottish independence, that I've lived here for 15 years and might have come across things like the Barnet formula? We'd need a separate thread to decide whether that's justified now or not, or whether it's any different from, say, overall flow of public funds to rural areas of England (Scotland is disproportionately rural).
The SNP do have some generally left leaning policies, that's true. However my read is that it's largely because they don't have to spend only what they bring in in tax in Scotland. And for the time being they can buy everyone cake and blame others for any shortage of cake. The electorate is wilfully gullible here as well.
I might be wrong but in an SNP independent Scotland, there would need to be a swing to pander to business, to stop mass exodus frankly, and hard choices would start to be made to withhold cake from the masses. With the promise of cake for the masses at a later time, obviously.0 -
Addendum - besides all of that a large proportion of the oppressed brave hearts up here don't care if there's no enough cake, as long as it's oor cake and no English cake.
I plan on retiring to Spain well before there's a cake famine. I reckon I could talk my way in.0 -
Thanks for the detailed explanation.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?
You said losing Scotland would “sting a bit” this is wrong.
S.E on its own probably would be better off financially0 -
You seems to be very good at reading between the lines and jumping to the wrong conclusion. No idea where you get that from as I didn't say that. Try reading my post properly.Imposter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
If wanting the party you support to do better is being totalitarian, then there are a lot of them in Cake Stop.Imposter wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:Another benefit of Scottish independence (apart from not having to fund them any more) is that it will take 50-odd lefties out of the Westminister MP population. Bring on Indyref 2 ! :twisted:
Are you, by any chance, a totalitarian..?? You appear to want parliament populated by representatives of only one persuasion (ie yours)..
Anyhow, it isn't me who is trying to detach Scotland from the UK, I am simply looking to the potential benefits of the actions of others
It's just that you said you wanted to remove "50 lefties". Perhaps you'd like them "lined up against a wall and shot" as well?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
https://order-order.com/2019/10/23/guid ... teve-bray/
Safe to say that Paul Staines won't be loved by many Cakestoppers but I found this funny nonetheless.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:You seems to be very good at reading between the lines and jumping to the wrong conclusion. No idea where you get that from as I didn't say that. Try reading my post properly.
I'm just saying this stuff for you, so you don't have to. Thank me later..0 -
First Aspect wrote:
Thanks for the detailed explanation.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:
Go on then. Explain why lopping off Scotland would help you. But bear in mind that the same arguments would therefore apply to Wales, Northern Ireland, the West country and most of the hilly bits Oop North you visit on bank holidays.Surrey Commuter wrote:First Aspect wrote:Me droning on...
You totally lost credibility with the last para.
Why would the south east of England be better off without all the grotty bits of the UK?
You said losing Scotland would “sting a bit” this is wrong.
S.E on its own probably would be better off financially
I spend too long on here explaining why the UK being a net contributor is not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to the EU.
I have explained that you are wrong in your belief that Scotland is a net contributor to the UK, what more detail do you want.
I am ambivalent about the UK so really don’t care if it breaks up.0 -
Robert88 wrote:Firms in Northern Ireland will have to submit declaration forms for goods heading to the rest of the UK, under the government's deal.
Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay was forced to make the admission after initially denying it was the case.
This followed previous assurances that Northern Ireland-GB trade would be "unfettered".
Reported just a few minutes ago.
Does it inspire confidence in their ability to fix a deal by 31st? Seriously?
It's not the GB NI declarations that are causing the problem
It's that they don't seem to know what's in their own agreement or the impact of it and can't get their story straight.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
