Giro Pre Race Chat

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

You can see why Bertie lies about his injuries eh..?

Watch the race yesterday? Missed a belter. Porte fans noticeably absent on the spoiler thread lol.

pinno

Contador put in a superb ITT and probably would have won it if the conditions had not deteriorated more compared to when Kiryienka set off and Astana have thrown everything at him yet people say he isn't putting in the effort?!
The UCI banned Contador and took results away from him. He served his ban under their rules, then surely you have to accept that? I do not think that the sport is clean. I don't think that any rider is totally clean. I do think that many riders go under the radar but aren't labelled cheats because we simply aren't aware of any wrongdoings.
Porte seems a bit fragile* and it is very difficult to say how much his injury affected him but he hasn't shown any real fight. I think SKY put him in as team leader on a very speculative basis ahead of the TdF. The team they assembled around him is not as strong as it could have been. Is it possible that if the team was more dominant like Astana, would they have protected Porte a bit better? One minor tour win does not make him into an automatic GT contender. He didn't fair well in last years TdF when suddenly given the mantle. *Didn't he pull out because of a virus? If you think Bertie was lying about the shoulder displacement, then equally, you must be cynical about Porte's condition? If not, then you are disingenuous/hypocritical.
I do think that SKY's time has come and gone. I also think that they burn out riders and there won't be many pro's given their established reputation, who are willing to go sign up with them, eyes wide open.
Froome needs to see that and jump ship or else I don't think he will win a GT again, which would be a crying shame.
Froome suffered years with Bilharzia but it never stopped him over coming. You have to hand it to him - his unequivocal role in Wiggo's win and his blitzing of the 2013 tour. Made of stronger stuff than Porte (and I don't mean that in a nasty way). Porte is faced with some rising stars like Quintana, Landa (the surprise in this Giro), and Aru amongst others. His chances for a GT win are stacking against him.

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

You can see why Bertie lies about his injuries eh..?

Watch the race yesterday? Missed a belter. Porte fans noticeably absent on the spoiler thread lol.

No, twitter suggests that some rules must be followed but not in some cases and then unwritten ones should be follwed in other cases but only if the guy is wearing a magic jersey etc etc. Still a farce.

Once you take the rose tinted specs off it's hard to put them back on again.

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

Once you take the rose tinted specs off it's hard to put them back on again.

Oh well your loss.

Beautiful racing yesterday.

ddraver

not really, I rode my bike...

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

not really, I rode my bike...

Haha, well you can do both can't you! I went out after and got over excited doing hill reps in the big ring and had to crawl home.

bobmcstuff

I went to my first ever chaingang and then on the way home got overly competitive with a Dutchman on a hill and can barely move today.

I'm blaming Hesjedal mostly.

Crozza

frenchfighter wrote:

Haha, well you can do both can't you! I went out after and got over excited doing hill reps in the big ring and had to crawl home.

greasedscotsman

ddraver wrote:

You can see why Bertie lies about his injuries eh..?

Curious why Contador might be lying or exaggerating his injuries. Really can't see what he has to gain from it. Usually riders do the opposite. Anyone any ideas?

ddraver

Well I can do both or a bazillion other things instead.

schlepcycling

greasedscotsman wrote:

ddraver wrote:

You can see why Bertie lies about his injuries eh..?

Curious why Contador might be lying or exaggerating his injuries. Really can't see what he has to gain from it. Usually riders do the opposite. Anyone any ideas?

It makes his winning the Giro having suffered such a 'terrible' injury much more heroic.

ddraver

That and because it's easier to pull out with a dislocated shoulder than an owie shoulder. Wheras if you downplay an injury then you look like a wuss when you pull out later. It's spin yes, but Tinkoff is not an idiot

Macaloon

After yesterday, how can it be said that he was giving himself room to quit? FFS. If the opposition try to kill you when you're already 'half-dead', and fail, you gain quite the psychological edge.

ddraver

Yes i meant the few days afterwards to see how it worked out. Even Bertie's got enough brains to work out that it wouldnt work now

disgruntledgoat

Don't know if anyone has posted this, but one of Giant's DSs just flat out pointing the finger at Astana

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2349441

"Its not up to me to point the finger, but they're riding unbelivebly well"

"When riders see extreme differences among colleagues, it shows in people like Henderson's frustrations. Look at the Giro and look at what is happening and the fear is that more and more will happen again."

Someone's press officer is going to be throwing the huge theatrical strop beloved of their profession

dolan_driver

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Don't know if anyone has posted this, but one of Giant's DSs just flat out pointing the finger at Astana

http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2349441

"Its not up to me to point the finger, but they're riding unbelivebly well"

"When riders see extreme differences among colleagues, it shows in people like Henderson's frustrations. Look at the Giro and look at what is happening and the fear is that more and more will happen again."

Someone's press officer is going to be throwing the huge theatrical strop beloved of their profession

It is plain to see on each hilly or mountain stage in this Giro. Astana's level of performance is, to quote Lance, "not normal".

DD.

Macaloon

Contador is humping them for 4 mins. On his own. Saxo are having a shocker, Sky their typical Giro, and Uran is MIA.

frenchfighter

Yeah I mean Astana have come here to race and have a very strong and consistently proven team and yet they still can't beat Contador and are not that far off the rest. Would be better if the Giant DS STFU and actually made a contribution to this race as their presence at the moment is useless.

1. AST ASTANA PRO TEAM 15.21'55"
2. MOV MOVISTAR TEAM 15.27'25" 5'30"
3. BMC BMC RACING TEAM 15.30'33" 8'38"
4. LTS LOTTO SOUDAL 15.43'17" 21'22"
5. SKY TEAM SKY 15.44'31" 22'36"
6. ALM AG2R LA MONDIALE 15.44'31" 22'36"
7. TCG TEAM CANNONDALE - GARMIN 15.47'29" 25'34"
8. TLJ TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO 15.53'27" 31'32"
9. BAR BARDIANI CSF 15.56'55" 35'00"
10. KAT TEAM KATUSHA 16.01'06" 39'11"
11. FDJ FDJ 16.01'50" 39'55"
12. CCC CCC SPRANDI POLKOWICE 16.03'20" 41'25"
13. EQS ETIXX - QUICK-STEP 16.03'20" 41'25"
14. TCS TINKOFF SAXO 16.08'38" 46'43"
15. AND ANDRONI-SIDERMEC 16.19'27" 57'32"
16. STH SOUTHEAST 16.20'39" 58'44"
17. NIP NIPPO - VINI FANTINI 16.33'55" 1.12'00"
18. OGE ORICA GREENEDGE 16.33'55" 1.12'00"
19. IAM IAM CYCLING 16.34'06" 1.12'11"
20. LAM LAMPRE - MERIDA 16.35'25" 1.13'30"
21. TFR TREK FACTORY RACING 16.47'13" 1.25'18"
22. TGA TEAM GIANT - ALPECIN 16.55'58" 1.34'03"

dolan_driver

frenchfighter wrote:

Yeah I mean Astana have come here to race and have a very strong and consistently proven team and yet they still can't beat Contador and are not that far off the rest. Would be better if the Giant DS STFU and actually made a contribution to this race as their presence at the moment is useless.[/b]

He is dead right to speak up if has genuine suspicions. Greg Henderson has also spoken. Rob Hatch has described the Astana performance in this Giro at times as being "incredible". We have all seen it with our own eyes too on this race. They also came into this season with the nailed-on, UCI-approved, reputation for being dodgy as fook.

It remains to be seen if the team are juiced-up or not but if they are on the sauce, hopefully they will get popped. If they are clean as a whistle, fair play to them.

DD.

frenchfighter

Incredible, unbelievable, etc based on what? That they are at the front of the race and racing hard?

So in the last three years where Sky have drilled the hell out of the peloton and reduced it to smithereens they are above all suspicion? Because they are British?

The only difference is that Sky operate a one team leader policy whereas other teams realise that it makes sense to have two up there if possible.

They have two consistently proven riders in the top 3 ahead of some serious GT contenders. Wow, they must be doping?

Macaloon

frenchfighter wrote:

So in the last three years where Sky have drilled the hell out of the peloton and reduced it to smithereens they are just doing fine?

But they haven't done this since 2012. They were onto him and Dave pivoted into mobile platforms and Alpine timeshare.

frenchfighter

Er, incorrect.

Crozza

this just smacks of sour grapes - the performance is only "unbelievable" versus the performance of their own sh1t team

Astana could have pointed to Dangleknobs two monument wins and called them "unbelievable" by the same token

no need to bring Sky into it, they got the same aspersions cast at them at the time, including by you on many occasions FF

adr82

frenchfighter wrote:

Incredible, unbelievable, etc based on what? That they are at the front of the race and racing hard?

So in the last three years where Sky have drilled the hell out of the peloton and reduced it to smithereens they are above all suspicion? Because they are British?

FF, come on... when the Sky train was seemingly winning everything in sight you were one of the loudest voices protesting that there was something dodgy going on. The phrase "deux vitesses" came up more than once. You're implying people give Sky a free pass because they're British, but it appears you're more willing to give other teams a free pass if they're not British. There's not much wrong with having doubts (as distinct from making unsubstantiated accusations) about Astana when you combine their recent history, the UCI investigations and their collective performance in the Giro so far.

ddraver

Based on the first week I can't say I had any suspicions - not least because although it looked good, it was largely ineffective. They are the Mountain train equivalent to the Garmin Sprint train (swarm to the front at 4km to go, disintegrate completely at 3.5km). From what I hear, this all powerful train has been outrun by one guy for the rest of it...hardly a dominant performance...

TheBigBean

Surely it is only Landa that has surprised people? Whilst I'm very cynical on these matters, in his defence, he is relatively young, so it could just be the emergence of a good climber. He certainly isn't on the TT drugs.

adr82

ddraver wrote:

Based on the first week I can't say I had any suspicions - not least because although it looked good, it was largely ineffective. They are the Mountain train equivalent to the Garmin Sprint train (swarm to the front at 4km to go, disintegrate completely at 3.5km). From what I hear, this all powerful train has been outrun by one guy for the rest of it...hardly a dominant performance...

That's pretty much how I see it too. If we had 3 or 4 Astana riders putting minutes into Contador and more on everyone else that'd be a bit different!

Macaloon

frenchfighter wrote:

Er, incorrect.

I'm not counting the one-weekers, where only Sky's insecure team leaders, in cahoots with Kerrison obv, incinerate their GT squads. UK Postal has not been seen in a GT 2012.

salsiccia1

adr82 wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Based on the first week I can't say I had any suspicions - not least because although it looked good, it was largely ineffective. They are the Mountain train equivalent to the Garmin Sprint train (swarm to the front at 4km to go, disintegrate completely at 3.5km). From what I hear, this all powerful train has been outrun by one guy for the rest of it...hardly a dominant performance...

That's pretty much how I see it too. If we had 3 or 4 Astana riders putting minutes into Contador and more on everyone else that'd be a bit different!

+another

If they were walking away with it, then fair enough. But they're not, and Landa apart they're looking knackered.

I think they had a plan to go hard in the first week and a half and hopefully Aru would be in pink by a few mins ahead of the time trial. It just didn't work.

Macaloon

Robert Millar disliked riding the Giro despite finishing 2nd in the mountains jersey.

Saying that, I knew I'd be bored just doing a bit of work now and then, or getting dragged round, so to perk up my outlook I thought I'd try out for the mountains prize. This was the era when there was no washing machine in the truck and you did your own kit cleaning, so having a nice new jersey to wear each stage saved a bit of energy.