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Giro Del Trentino ***SPOILERS***

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  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    MY MAN spots a Toberlone!

    1429891806332.jpg
    Correlation is not causation.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,827
    Excellent, congratulations Tiralongo. Now there is a popular win in the World of Pro Cycling (apart from maybe the Brits and Scandis). Porte just sweeping these GC's up like child's play.
    o

    Why do you make clear comments like those? I for one am pleased for Tiralongo, I always like to see him get a win as he usually works so hard for others. As for Porte are you trying to insinuate something with these comments (having derided a pro rider for doing something similar)? There's no-one in the field you'd normally expect to push him in a lumpy stage race. Look at the top 5, Cataldo and Cunego are in there - both past their best.
  • blazing_saddlesblazing_saddles Posts: 20,374
    Fabio Duarte must be dumber than a bag of rocks.
    He was last wheel throughout the final 5kms, as Tiralongo and Arroyo tried to knock lumps out of eachother.
    Time and again he was dragged back to the front by one or the other, but never attempted a counter.
    Instead, be went from 500 metres out............with the inevitable result.

    Wiggins in 2012, Froome, 2013, Contador last year and now Porte: the dominant stage race rider of the season. (so far :wink: )
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • argyllflyerargyllflyer Posts: 893
    Pross wrote:
    Excellent, congratulations Tiralongo. Now there is a popular win in the World of Pro Cycling (apart from maybe the Brits and Scandis). Porte just sweeping these GC's up like child's play.
    o

    Why do you make clear comments like those? I for one am pleased for Tiralongo, I always like to see him get a win as he usually works so hard for others. As for Porte are you trying to insinuate something with these comments (having derided a pro rider for doing something similar)? There's no-one in the field you'd normally expect to push him in a lumpy stage race. Look at the top 5, Cataldo and Cunego are in there - both past their best.

    Especially as any win for Astana has to be taken with a very generous pinch of salt just now.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I agree re Duarte but then I never expect much from the Colombians - they are clearly not even 3rd best at anything and that includes climbing.
    Pross wrote:
    Excellent, congratulations Tiralongo. Now there is a popular win in the World of Pro Cycling (apart from maybe the Brits and Scandis). Porte just sweeping these GC's up like child's play.
    o

    Why do you make clear comments like those? I for one am pleased for Tiralongo, I always like to see him get a win as he usually works so hard for others. As for Porte are you trying to insinuate something with these comments (having derided a pro rider for doing something similar)? There's no-one in the field you'd normally expect to push him in a lumpy stage race. Look at the top 5, Cataldo and Cunego are in there - both past their best.

    Have a look at palmares for Porte in 2015. This race is easy compared to previous ones he won (and he won them all) despite having riders with GT top tens which is more than can be said for Porte's abysmal GT placing record (also shown on his wiki page).
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Good comments as usual from my man Tiralongo:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/tiralon ... l-trentino
    Contador is the Greatest
  • MacaloonMacaloon Posts: 5,545
    Have a look at palmares for Porte in 2015. This race is easy compared to previous ones he won (and he won them all) despite having riders with GT top tens which is more than can be said for Porte's abysmal GT placing record (also shown on his wiki page).

    Porte may well have finished on Froome's 2013 Tour podium if Movistar hadn't been more concerned with crushing him (Porte), to protect Valverde's lame prospects, than attacking Froome on *that* stage. The effort seemed to take its toll (as it did on fragile Froomey, and brittle Brad) and he's only now back on form. These results would have been no surprise two years ago.
    tdf13_st9_movistar_11.jpg
    Tour de France 2013, Stage 9. ES Postal provide Chris Froome with an honorary 150km escort.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,081
    "Porte's abysmal GT placing record"... !?! How many of these did he start as protected team leader?

    A prerequisite of "becoming very good" is that you weren't quite as good beforehand.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    edited April 2015
    So Porte has never been sole leader in a GT? Really? How sad for him as a professional.

    Yeah he might have been on the podium just like Contador would have won the Tour if he hadnt of broken his leg and he would have won the Tour when he was forced to sit out twice and then the other one where he came back under trained due to various reasons.

    First example that springs to mind is Kreuziger's placing as 2nd man in the Tour. As 2nd man you need to be able to place very well in case your team mate falters or crashes. Ag2r last year had two men up there.

    Last year his team leader crashed out early. Porte was sole leader. He didnt even manage top 20.

    Given his current amazing form (since Jan now straight) he may well fight for Giro GC 1st but it would be a huge turnaround from every other 3 week race he has been in (7 in the last 5 years).
    Contador is the Greatest
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    Yes the events of *THAT* stage (my god what a stage that was) have a particular narrative that says Porte lost 20 minutes ergo he's pants. Yes Porte lost twenty minutes but that's because a) Movistar where riding to shed him and b) he held the gap to them at 2 minutes for an age and only then decided to sit up because he decided in conjunction with the team car that it was better to conserve energy for the whole Tour so he could actually do the job he was supposed to do as Froome's super-mountain domestique rather than try for a podium place.

    Sky have had the double podium in grand tours before and it isn't always the best result for the team when one considers internal dynamics and egos.

    As for Porte's results last year, yes they were awful, he's the first to admit that but he was very sick. He finished the Tour with pneumonia. I find it very interesting the reaction to illness amongst cycling fans, with some riders people are happy to excuse/relate their performances with the rider being ill, with other riders there seems to be a collective myopia around considering someone's health in conjunction with their performance.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    So Porte has never been sole leader in a GT? Really? How sad for him as a professional.

    :roll:
    Yeah he might have been on the podium just like Contador would have won the Tour if he hadnt of broken his leg and he would have won the Tour when he was forced to sit out twice and then the other one where he came back under trained due to various reasons.

    First example that springs to mind is Kreuziger's placing as 2nd man in the Tour. As 2nd man you need to be able to place very well in case your team mate falters or crashes. Ag2r last year had two men up there.

    Last year his team leader crashed out early. Porte was sole leader. He didnt even manage top 20.

    Because he had pneumonia. You won't even go for a ride if there's the slightest chance of rain.
    Given his current amazing form (since Jan now straight) he may well fight for Giro GC 1st but it would be a huge turnaround from every other 3 week race he has been in (7 in the last 5 years).

    No like any other win for any other cyclist it would be the result of a collection of factors. Form, specific training, being in a position to be allowed to win i.e. being the protected team leader from the very beginning of the race, the team you have to support you, confidence, racing nous etc. etc.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    When Contador won his first GT his best position previously was 31st, Richie has had a 7th and 23rd, so If Contador can jump 30 places, Porte can jump 22.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 26,453
    Contador fans are getting anxious. The Giro was supposed to be a soft three week lap of honour for their man, leaving him fresh for a tilt at the double. Not going to happen now.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 18,147
    RichN95 wrote:
    Contador fans are getting anxious. The Giro was supposed to be a soft three week lap of honour for their man, leaving him fresh for a tilt at the double. Not going to happen now.

    An in form Porte v Contador is the best result for Pro Cycling Fans Globally.
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Further to my post up stairs:

    When Contador won the tour, he had only won one WT stage race, Paris Nice, before it. Porte has won 3 WT stage races. So if he won a GT, id say results wise he's less suspicious that Contador.
  • sjmclean wrote:
    When Contador won his first GT his best position previously was 31st, Richie has had a 7th and 23rd, so If Contador can jump 30 places, Porte can jump 22.

    You can't argue against facts (although you can if it's the fact about how many GTs he's won)
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Porte is totally my anti-man, but I envisaged this situation occurring back before the start of the season so backed him e/w for the Giro @ 13.00.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,081
    It's one thing to Insinuate that Porte's progression to become a serious GT contender is suspicious: but using Contador as a comparison, of all people, is ridiculous.

    The guy started his pro career under Manolo Saiz at ONCE; he then went onto Liberty Seguros, followed by Discovery... then Astana... then for Tinkov. He couldn't have chosen a more suspicious route unless he managed shoe-horn a retrospective spell at Festina followed by US Postal.
    Talking of which, Bert's trainer - Pepe Marti - was the bloke Landis said he got his drugs from when he was at US Postal...“nothing more than a known drug-trafficker". He got an 8 year ban - so this story was clearly corroborated elsewhere.
    Most of Contador's 11 year or so as a pro stink; ironically, the only whiff on Porte's career is that he rode for a team that had Bert as a leader.
  • ocdupalaisocdupalais Posts: 4,081
    Lib_Roadman2_Oct05_2.JPG

    This one always makes me laugh...
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs, countless smaller stage races, knows how to attack from 100km out, is the fan's favourite (English speaking countries excluded), is stylish and is a modest and kind man. The other is still trying to crack a top 5 in a GT. Lets hope he makes that target come true in his 6th year competing in GTs.

    Smj, I guess you never saw that Giro or that stage. I recommend you watch the whole thing as it was brilliant. Porte did well and was even leading the GC (due to a massive break that got a huge gap). He was also racing for Riis, was young and carefree, I was a fan and he even had (I know you dont like this) a top to toe pink kit when he was leading.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs, countless smaller stage races, knows how to attack from 100km out, is the fan's favourite (English speaking countries excluded), is stylish and is a modest and kind man. The other is still trying to crack a top 5 in a GT. Lets hope he makes that target come true in his 6th year competing in GTs.

    How many 100km attacks has Bert done then? I like Bert, think he's a decent bike rider and can be very exciting, but he can also be calculating and ... gasp, boring. If there was no need for Bertie to do heroics, he wouldn't.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 18,147
    iainf72 wrote:
    think he's a decent bike rider and can be very exciting.

    So a 6 and a half then? :wink:
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    iainf72 wrote:
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs, countless smaller stage races, knows how to attack from 100km out, is the fan's favourite (English speaking countries excluded), is stylish and is a modest and kind man. The other is still trying to crack a top 5 in a GT. Lets hope he makes that target come true in his 6th year competing in GTs.

    How many 100km attacks has Bert done then? I like Bert, think he's a decent bike rider and can be very exciting, but he can also be calculating and ... gasp, boring. If there was no need for Bertie to do heroics, he wouldn't.

    He is very conscious of not riding in a stupid defensive manner as he knows what the fans want.

    He is not all conquering which makes it more interesting. Taking 30 secs here and there.

    You know full well that he is the master of long range attacks, going from further out and more frequently than any other rider. You watch enough cycling that I dont have to list a few examples for you.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,827
    Talk about rose tinted fan worship. Re-watch last year's Vuelta and count the long range attacks. As Iain said, he's a very good pro cyclist and adapts his riding style to suit his form and do what he needs to win. In 2012 his only chance of winning the Vuelta was a do or die long range attack. I doubt what the fans want has ever entered his head. The thing I will say is he's prepared to sacrifice a podium place for the chance of a win which is refreshing in this day and age but also easier to do when you have a lot of big wins already on your palmares.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He won the 2008 Giro.

    His victory was boring. He didn't even win a stage. But he rode sensibly and did what was required. The race he was stripped of for doping, 2010 TdF he was also not heroic. But he did what was required.

    As Pross just said, he's prepared to throw it away to win and I like that. I can only think of a couple of long range attacks he's done - 3 maybe? Or 4. Usually when his back was against the wall.

    If he had a team as strong as Sky, he'd ride exactly like Porte does.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • The_BoyThe_Boy Posts: 3,099
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs,

    That's not how you spell 'Anquetil'.
    Team My Man 2018: David gaudu, Pierre Latour, Romain Bardet, Thibaut pinot, Alexandre Geniez, Florian Senechal, Warren Barguil, Benoit Cosnefroy
  • Of all his "100km attacks" I can only remember one of them ever working.

    Even the one he tried in Paris Nice 09 was easily controlled by Caisse
  • salsiccia1salsiccia1 Posts: 3,723
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs

    Neither of them have won 8 GTs. Your maths is really bad.

    Seriously though, is anyone really trying to compare them? Their achievements aren't comparable, but that doesn't mean that Porte isn't a damn good rider and has no business winning races strongly. If he didn't ride for Sky I doubt you'd have a problem with him, FF.
    It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kendrick Lamar has got a hot new b-side on his next single. A cycling re-rub of King Kunta

    Rap along yourself.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRK7PVJFbS8

    I got a race to win
    I don't want you skinny legged Sky riders sittin' in my throne again
    (Aye aye climber whats happenin’ climber, Bert back in the yellow climber)
    I'm behind (He behind), but I ain't stressin'
    True champions, one question

    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I win the stage got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him, Conta
    Stylish man taking no losses
    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I run the stage, got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him

    When you got the watts (What's the watts?)
    The watts is the power that be
    You can smell it when I'm ridin’ up the Alpe
    (Oh yes we can, oh yes we can)
    I can dig attacking, but a attacker with a mountain train
    What the fck happened?
    (Oh no) I swore I wouldn't tell
    But most of you suck wheels like you got the form of a 100 kilo man
    (A 100 kilo man)
    Something's in the steak (Something's in the steak)
    And if I got to suck wheels for some yellow then I'd rather be a bum than a motherfckin' baller

    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I win the stage got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him, Conta
    Stylish man taking no losses
    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I run the stage, got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him

    When you got the watts (What's the watts?)
    The watts brought it out of Riccardo Ricco
    Manipulated Denis Menchov with red blood cells
    24/7, 365 days times two
    I was contemplatin' gettin' on the gear
    Just to go back to the Tour see my enemies and say...

    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I win the stage got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him, Conta
    Stylish man taking no losses
    Porte where you when I was attackin''?
    Now I run the stage, got the whole world talkin', King Conta
    Everybody wanna cut the legs off him

    You skinny english speaking Sky rider
    I was gonna destroy a couple riders but they did it to themselves
    Everybody's fallin’ off they don't even need my help
    This stage is elementary, I'll probably go in the last 2k
    If I shoot when I win and veer to the left
    Stuck a steak in my vein, everybody's screamin’ "Conta"
    I should probably run for DS when I'm done, to be honest

    [Got bored at this point]
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    Yes comparing Porte to Contador is ridiculous. One has won 8 GTs, countless smaller stage races, knows how to attack from 100km out, is the fan's favourite (English speaking countries excluded), is stylish and is a modest and kind man. The other is still trying to crack a top 5 in a GT. Lets hope he makes that target come true in his 6th year competing in GTs.

    Smj, I guess you never saw that Giro or that stage. I recommend you watch the whole thing as it was brilliant. Porte did well and was even leading the GC (due to a massive break that got a huge gap). He was also racing for Riis, was young and carefree, I was a fan and he even had (I know you dont like this) a top to toe pink kit when he was leading.

    You're mostly right there, except from I have watched the Giro and was aware of the way he rode it.

    That's not what I'm saying though, you haven't read my post properly.
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