Three Days De Panne 2015 *Spoilers*

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

What you don't understand is that it is irrelevant how much work he did. he is sprinter, it is up to the rest to drop him & Kristoff

He is a sprinter? Pretty sh*t sprinter then.

That's just nasty. No reason for it. I'm sure he's never claimed he was up there with Cav and Kittel, or even Greipel.

frenchfighter

^^I completely agree with you I just detest people whose tactic, and basically their only tactic, is to deliberately do as little work as possible.

It is a tactic certainly but it is one with no class and no excitement. If majority of people rode like that the fan base would shrink to almost nothing. It also has negative connotations to most fans and thus reflects badly on the sponsor. A rider with verve and who doesn't ride in the shadows is what the sponsors want. There is a reason that Voeckler is relatively rolling in sponsorship.

It's like when an ambulance comes past, everyone pulls over, but one car is tailgating the ambulance. Its not illegal, but its not the correct way to conduct oneself.

frenchfighter

No tA Doctor wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

ddraver wrote:

What you don't understand is that it is irrelevant how much work he did. he is sprinter, it is up to the rest to drop him & Kristoff

He is a sprinter? Pretty sh*t sprinter then.

That's just nasty. No reason for it. I'm sure he's never claimed he was up there with Cav and Kittel, or even Greipel.

It's not nasty, it is just a statement of fact:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jens_Debusschere

If you consider yourself a sprinter on a WT team then you are expected to win sprints and place highly in sprints. If you are not then you are expected to win in other ways (which Debu has no chance of doing given the way he rides). If you are neither of those then you are a domestique which is a perfectly acceptable and valuable role.

ddraver

he's 25 and racing classics (now). That he's there at the end at all would be a success for most of the peloton!

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

^^I completely agree with you I just detest people whose tactic, and basically their only tactic, is to deliberately do as little work as possible.

It is a tactic certainly but it is one with no class and no excitement. If majority of people rode like that the fan base would shrink to almost nothing. It also has negative connotations to most fans and thus reflects badly on the sponsor. A rider with verve and who doesn't ride in the shadows is what the sponsors want. There is a reason that Voeckler is relatively rolling in sponsorship.

It's like when an ambulance comes past, everyone pulls over, but one car is tailgating the ambulance. Its not illegal, but its not the correct way to conduct oneself.

You basically detest all sprinters then? It's their job to do the absolute minimal work to get to the end of a race with enough left in the tank to exploit the single gift they have - to finish a race fast. The best of them have taken sitting on a wheel to an art-form. All their training goes into having explosive power, not into being able to pull on the front. Yet you want them to deliberately blunt their blade by pulling for the group?

It's up to the group to drop the sprinter instead of carrying him to the line. If he won't pull then you shouldn't pull either - unless you're stupid or desperate.

Voeckler may be rolling in sponsorship money, but he's a monumental waste of talent. Personally I think his show-boating and hamming it up for the cameras reflects badly on his sponsors.

frenchfighter

Is he a sprinter though...I thought sprinters win and highly often.

No need to has this out I think as we both know we have different views of racing tactics and riders and draw enjoyment from the sport for different reasons.

I dislike him and his tactics, that's about the end of it. I am entitled to have and voice that opinion. If people disagree with me then fine, just do not get upset about it.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Is he a sprinter though...I thought sprinters win and highly often.

No need to has this out I think as we both know we have different views of racing tactics and riders and draw enjoyment from the sport for different reasons.

I dislike him and his tactics, that's about the end of it. I am entitled to have and voice that opinion. If people disagree with me then fine, just do not get upset about it.

It's not that you prefer one rider over another, or prefer panache over tactically astute riding, it's that you're incredibly judgemental about it. I don't get upset about it, but when people lecture you on tactics it's because you sometimes come across as having a very limited understanding of and appreciation for cycle racing. Personally, I like the nuances, I like the tactics, I like the fact that there are very different types of rider and very different types of parcours and that this throws up a huge variety of situations that riders need to address to try and get a win. If we didn't have sprinters sitting in we wouldn't see rouleurs having to puzzle out how to get rid of them. I'm not saying you have to like it when the sprinter wins, but the picture of it being some sort of moral degeneracy and general unworthiness to sit in - and the argument that it isn't "what the fans want to see" is just shallow and unworthy of you.

thomthom

frenchfighter wrote:

^^I completely agree with you I just detest people whose tactic, and basically their only tactic, is to deliberately do as little work as possible.

It is a tactic certainly but it is one with no class and no excitement. If majority of people rode like that the fan base would shrink to almost nothing. It also has negative connotations to most fans and thus reflects badly on the sponsor.

Jesus.. He had been in TWO breaks before being caught by last group.

What should he have done? Pulled with the others? It would have made no difference but losing even more to Kristoff in the end.

Don't talk nonsene when you couldn't even be bothered to watch the race.

frenchfighter

No tA Doctor wrote:

when people lecture you on tactics it's because you sometimes come across as having a very limited understanding of and appreciation for cycle racing

Well this is clearly not the case on both points. Those that believe it are deluding themselves, not that I have any care to attempt to alter their view.

It's most probably because they think they are being clever and struggle to comprehend how my opinion can be so different to theirs.

I understand everything. Doesn't mean I have to accept or like something because it is a 'tactic' though.

Anonymous

What about Cav, Kittel, Delkenkolb for example?


p.s a breakaway of 12 have 7! minutes

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

when people lecture you on tactics it's because you sometimes come across as having a very limited understanding of and appreciation for cycle racing

Well this is clearly not the case on both points. Those that believe it are deluding themselves, not that I have any care to attempt to alter their view.

It's most probably because they think they are being clever and struggle to comprehend how my opinion can be so different to theirs.

I understand everything. Doesn't mean I have to accept or like something because it is a 'tactic' though.

Your arrogance is an different, though connected, issue.

Never mind, each to their own.

dish_dash

frenchfighter wrote:

I understand everything.

That's got to be a signature...

The_Boy

dish_dash wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

I understand everything.

That's got to be a signature...

Way ahead of you...

mr_poll

frenchfighter wrote:

It's like when an ambulance comes past, everyone pulls over, but one car is tailgating the ambulance. Its not illegal, but its not the correct way to conduct oneself.

Unless of course that car is driven by someone with a useful skill, like an A&E Consultant, who is tailgating to offer help at the emergency.

Lotto Soudal had three in a break of 6, I cannot see why you have any issue with the person with the "skill" to potentially finish off the race "tailgating" the efforts of his teammates and other riders whose teams aren't as represented in the break.

Last time I watched the Tinkoff form a train up a mountain I am pretty sure your man Bertie was at the back of the train waiting for the last few km - no one criticised him for not being at the front doing his turn. Just sensible tactics, same as Lotto Soudal y.day.

Dorset_Boy

So FF criticises a man who was in two breaks yesterday and did his fair share of the work with his team mate when there were just the two of them, for not winning the race, a race he clearly didn't watch and so knew nothing about.
He then spouts some extreme arrogance about knowing everything. :shock:

With your comments Frenchie, you really do suggest to others that you know absolutely naff all about bike racing, yet you claim to watch loads of it. :roll:

However as you block anyone with a contrary view to your own (another example of your arrogance), you probably won't get to read this.

Anonymous

I've called it in the "I'm calling it now thread", FF is Oleg Tinkov. I've thought it for a while.

Anonymous

118K to go. Break has 6.15

outsider78

I only understand very little about cycling but every time I see that Debusschere guy, he either sucks wheels or comes second.

smithy21

Now on Eurosport. Looks like a nice enough day.

92.8 km to go. 6 mins 31 the gap.

The_Boy

Echelons!!!

The_Boy

Hmmmmmm. I may have been hasty.

The_Boy

Nope. Definitely breaking up

blazing_saddles

He he, it's going to be an awfully long 90kms if you are already in the second half of the bunch.They haven't even hit the real crosswinds yet.

ddraver

Not the forum man on the ground, but one of the men around the ground, it is still flipping windy!

blazing_saddles

Proper heavyweight racing this.
Not for the namby pamby GT glamour boys.

smithy21

Balls- going to have to head out of the office in about 10 mins.

Wont be back in time to see the break reeled in and then Wiggo shred them all from 40km

emadden

#runwithsean ....

FFS.

The_Boy

Calmed down a bit and largely back together. Gap to break going back out.

frenchfighter

Looks like Sjy have had a talking to. They are riding up near the front all day as a good unit. Always making sure not to hit the front at all though, even as much as stepping off the gas when they near it.

Anonymous

Echelons and some breaking up at the front of the bunch