CIRC report

12357…11

Comments

  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Joelsim wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Listening to Millar on Radio 5 and as usual he made some good points.

    1. If you speak with riders who are doping or did previously and ask how many riders are doping now you will get a high estimate as it is how they justify their own actions.

    2. More younger, current riders who weren't on the pro scene at the height of the problems should have been interviewed to get a more accurate picture of the current situation.

    3. In Millar's opinion 85-90% of riders doping would have been likely at the peak. It's hard to estimate current levels but definitely a minority.

    4. Millar tried to get an interview but the commission weren't very flexible to his racing programme.


    I don't see any reason why Millar would under-estimate doping in the current peloton so I'm more inclined to accept his opinion than an unnamed pro. I certainly don't think cycling is clean (I don't think I've ever seen anyone claim it is) and we get regular reminders that it isn't but all you have to do is look at racing today against back then (and I don't mean individual stages chosen to make a point - have a look at how hard riders find it to repeat strong GT performances over 2 or 3 seasons for example).

    I also think that despite flaws the UCI have to be applauded for going ahead with this report when it was always going to trigger a negative media response while other sports continue to bury their heads in the sand and pretend their sports are squeaky clean.

    If you look at Millar's lack of wanting to talk, it's disappointing. The guy who runs Dopology said that he was approached and the CIRC were more than willing to go to Belgium to meet him, even though his site was based solely on what was in the public domain.

    Factor in an ardent anti-doper reputation, riding for probably the cleanest team...


    Hang on... Actual professional cyclists get told they dont have time to talk to just anybody, they can't bend to accommodate a guy who sat on the WADA athlete panel, but some dude who runs a website gets the call?

    Digger and Festina Girl must be fuming

    Exactly. He himself suggests he didn't quite make the effort to see them. Disappointing.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    I was more looking at their priorities than his... Anybody wants to know about Millar's experiences can just spend a tenner in the kindle store
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Goodness me this is a bit light on juicy detail isn't it. 200+ pages and nothing new :roll:

    Only one small reference to Contador on this thread but I would have assumed more people would have hashed it out- not that it is very interesting. Here are the details:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-co ... g-positive

    I am glad they point out the TUE abuse. I think that is a serious problem and if riders want a TUE then it has to be published on a very accessible and searchable database.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    frenchfighter wrote:

    I am glad they point out the TUE abuse. I think that is a serious problem and if riders want a TUE then it has to be published on a very accessible and searchable database.

    Searchable by whom?

    Would you like your health information to be available to all and sundry?
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Goodness me this is a bit light on juicy detail isn't it. 200+ pages and nothing new :roll:

    Only one small reference to Contador on this thread but I would have assumed more people would have hashed it out- not that it is very interesting. Here are the details:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-co ... g-positive

    I am glad they point out the TUE abuse. I think that is a serious problem and if riders want a TUE then it has to be published on a very accessible and searchable database.

    Ideally that would be great but you have the problem of their confidential health data to circumvent.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Goodness me this is a bit light on juicy detail isn't it. 200+ pages and nothing new :roll:

    Only one small reference to Contador on this thread but I would have assumed more people would have hashed it out- not that it is very interesting. Here are the details:
    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/circ-co ... g-positive

    I am glad they point out the TUE abuse. I think that is a serious problem and if riders want a TUE then it has to be published on a very accessible and searchable database.

    It is. The UCI have a system for this. Its just when officials take the law into ow n hands that stuff goes off piste.

    I'm not really in favour of the system being searchable and usable by anyone other than those directly impacted by it. None of our business
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.


    There's a difference between English speaking and being English. 90% of the peloton are English speaking :D
  • rob churchill
    rob churchill Posts: 272
    Pross wrote:
    Listening to Millar on Radio 5 and as usual he made some good points.

    1. If you speak with riders who are doping or did previously and ask how many riders are doping now you will get a high estimate as it is how they justify their own actions.

    Yup. The guy who said 90% should be top of the list for the new middle-of-the-night knock on the door from the testers.
    I have a policy of only posting comment on the internet under my real name. This is to moderate my natural instinct to flame your fatuous, ill-informed, irrational, credulous, bigoted, semi-literate opinions to carbon, you knuckle-dragging f***wits.
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Does anyone really care that Millar don't talk to the panel? Does he really somehow speak for the entire peloton? Or can he offer something not already mentioned by the people they DID interview?

    There are at least 100 other people I'm disappointed that didn't talk to the panel before Millar even comes to mind.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,173
    rob churchill wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Listening to Millar on Radio 5 and as usual he made some good points.

    1. If you speak with riders who are doping or did previously and ask how many riders are doping now you will get a high estimate as it is how they justify their own actions.

    Yup. The guy who said 90% should be top of the list for the new middle-of-the-night knock on the door from the testers.
    It was probably someone like Vayer though. He needs the existence of doping more than most.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,919
    rob churchill wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Listening to Millar on Radio 5 and as usual he made some good points.

    1. If you speak with riders who are doping or did previously and ask how many riders are doping now you will get a high estimate as it is how they justify their own actions.

    Yup. The guy who said 90% should be top of the list for the new middle-of-the-night knock on the door from the testers.


    That's the way to get an honest answer....
    _
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    iainf72 wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:

    I am glad they point out the TUE abuse. I think that is a serious problem and if riders want a TUE then it has to be published on a very accessible and searchable database.

    Searchable by whom?

    Would you like your health information to be available to all and sundry?

    Anyone but there would be a filter on 'highly sensitive or too personal' data. If as a rider you are not happy for people to question your use of medication etc then you will think twice about putting something on there you know you are only doing for performance recovery enhancing reasons.

    The gov bodies should also be much stricter on what is allowed.

    DG, I have searched for it before and never found it. If you have a link you can provide that would be great.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.

    Do you know who Iain Forfar is btw? Not that it is for me to say or that it means much; I'm just curious.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    I am pleased that this report confirms my complete innocence
    -Verbruggen

    :lol:
    Contador is the Greatest
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,173
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.
    Also only two members of the MPCC's thirteen man committee spoke to them.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    sherer wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.


    There's a difference between English speaking and being English. 90% of the peloton are English speaking :D

    You're very right, I'm making my own conclusions. Apologies.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    frenchfighter wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.

    Do you know who Iain Forfar is btw? Not that it is for me to say or that it means much; I'm just curious.

    I don't no, I seen him on here (I think) and came up in suggested followers on twitter, who is he?

    Edit: Is it you?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    RichN95 wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Iain Forfar from twitter: 50% of the riders we know spoke to CIRC are English speaking. 33% of team personnel.

    If that's the case it shows me why I think Sky are clean. Very few riders during that time from the UK, but still the UK riders are happy to come out and talk, whereas the Spanish, Italians, French riders not interested in speaking. Protecting them and their kin.
    Also only two members of the MPCC's thirteen man committee spoke to them.

    You only have to look at Vino's comments about membership with MPCC and then his teams current issues.
  • dimspace
    dimspace Posts: 53
    sjmclean wrote:
    The part on page 70 about one or two mountain bikers already doping before they came over. Cadel? I imagine he is one of the riders unnamed.

    Cadel isnt Canadian ;)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    dimspace wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    The part on page 70 about one or two mountain bikers already doping before they came over. Cadel? I imagine he is one of the riders unnamed.

    Cadel isnt Canadian ;)

    but it does mention 2 riders.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    sjmclean wrote:
    Edit: Is it you?

    No I do not have a twitter account.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    frenchfighter wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Edit: Is it you?

    No I do not have a twitter account.

    Who is it then?
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,173
    sjmclean wrote:
    dimspace wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    The part on page 70 about one or two mountain bikers already doping before they came over. Cadel? I imagine he is one of the riders unnamed.

    Cadel isnt Canadian ;)

    but it does mention 2 riders.
    It's Hesjedal and Rasmussen. It's been mentioned by Rasmussen before and admitted by Hesjedal.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    List of people who spoke:
    http://theraceradio.com/circ-participants/

    An appalling low number of riders speaking out.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    In terms of doping authorities under the governance of sporting and non-national juridical bodies (and even with national juridical bodies there are problems and limits) having access to personnel medical information will bring a whole load of shoot down onto the doping authorities/UCI from a whole host of quarters, national judiciary, supra-national bodies... WADA and the whereabouts system has already been dragged over the coals by the EU for instance. This sort of governance doesn't happen in a vacuum where regular rights don't exist. Cyclists are humans and have rights just like the rest of us, that cannot be legally terminated on signature of a contract.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Above The Cows wrote:
    In terms of doping authorities under the governance of sporting and non-national juridical bodies (and even with national juridical bodies there are problems and limits) having access to personnel medical information will bring a whole load of shoot down onto the doping authorities/UCI from a whole host of quarters, national judiciary, supra-national bodies... WADA and the whereabouts system has already been dragged over the coals by the EU for instance. This sort of governance doesn't happen in a vacuum where regular rights don't exist. Cyclists are humans and have rights just like the rest of us, that cannot be legally terminated on signature of a contract.

    True. Unfortunately, it plays into the hands of the modern doper in this particular sport.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,868
    sjmclean wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Edit: Is it you?

    No I do not have a twitter account.

    Who is it then?

    I'd suggest looking for forum members with a username containing the name Iain and possibly the first letter of the surname Forfar, possibly cross reference it against someone who tends to be fairly to the point in his posts.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Pross wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    sjmclean wrote:
    Edit: Is it you?

    No I do not have a twitter account.

    Who is it then?

    I'd suggest looking for forum members with a username containing the name Iain and possibly the first letter of the surname Forfar, possibly cross reference it against someone who tends to be fairly to the point in his posts.

    I know he's on here as well, that's why I got linked to him I imagine on twitter. Is that all? Am I mising something
  • alanp23
    alanp23 Posts: 696
    frenchfighter wrote:
    I am pleased that this report confirms my complete innocence
    -Verbruggen

    :lol:

    Yes, I heard him on 5Live (about 5.40pm) and that was pretty much the attitude he conveyed throughout the interview.
    Top Ten finisher - PTP Tour of Britain 2016

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