New Bora Clincher or Wheelsmith Aero 50?

Dizeee

I have finally narrowed down my wheelset choices to these two and am torn between which to go for.

The new Bora's are italian so match my bike, are supposed to be amazing, but are on pre order with very little information. Retailers cannot confirm whether they come with pads, skewers or tape plus cannot guarantee delivery dates.

The Wheelsmiths seem an excellent wheel, cheaper, unrivalled service and history and all seems to make a lot of sense. The only downside is that they are not Italian but that doesn't really matter I guess. They weigh the same, have equivalent aero value and I know I cna get hold of them pretty quick.

Help me decide as I have to buy soon before Spring!

ugo.santalucia

It's very straightforward... you want the Bora and want to convince yourself that you can make do with something else. Get the Bora... this is obviously a purchase not to make with your head, as the WS don't make sense either... if you don't get the Bora, you will get them next year and buy twice...
The skewers/rim tape/pads nonsense is bollox... who cares? QR are QR, tape cost 2 quid and if you can buy the Bora you can afford a set of pads

imposter2.0

Dizeee wrote:

The Wheelsmiths seem an excellent wheel, cheaper, unrivalled service and history and all seems to make a lot of sense. The only downside is that they are not Italian but that doesn't really matter I guess.

Are the Boras made in Italy? And does it matter anyway. You can buy Campag stickers on ebay.

Dizeee

Im just put off by delays and disappointment. I have already called two retailers this morning and there is already hints of massive over demand and release dates being put back. I don't want the equivalent of a Canyon buy where I get it at the end of the year, I want them now, to enjoy all year, and I don't want to part with cash and get stuck with no product.

The WS make a lot of sense to me, rave reviews wherever you look, plus a great deal cheaper than the Boras that RRP at 1500. If they don't come with pads etc then that's more again. That's significant when the WS wheels retail at £750.

ugo.santalucia

Dizeee wrote:

Im just put off by delays and disappointment. I have already called two retailers this morning and there is already hints of massive over demand and release dates being put back. I don't want the equivalent of a Canyon buy where I get it at the end of the year, I want them now, to enjoy all year, and I don't want to part with cash and get stuck with no product.

The WS make a lot of sense to me, rave reviews wherever you look, plus a great deal cheaper than the Boras that RRP at 1500. If they don't come with pads etc then that's more again. That's significant when the WS wheels retail at £750.

But then in 3 months time you will see the Bora available and you will buy them too... if cash is not a problem, then fine, otherwise patience is your weapon... it's not that you actually need them...

LegendLust

Dizeee wrote:

Im just put off by delays and disappointment. I have already called two retailers this morning and there is already hints of massive over demand and release dates being put back. I don't want the equivalent of a Canyon buy where I get it at the end of the year, I want them now, to enjoy all year, and I don't want to part with cash and get stuck with no product.

The WS make a lot of sense to me, rave reviews wherever you look, plus a great deal cheaper than the Boras that RRP at 1500. If they don't come with pads etc then that's more again. That's significant when the WS wheels retail at £750.

If you want Italian carbon clinchers have a look at the Miche SWR RC's. Now these are definately made in Italy. I've just got a pair and they are superb. Good write up here too http://road.cc/content/review/122172-mi ... her-wheels

Plus I think because of the weak Euro the RRP is now £1099. There are Miche dealers who are running the Miche Wheel Test Programme, where you can try the SWR's on an extended demo - check the Chicken Cyclekit website

mfin

A downside to the Miche is the graphics look crap, but if they are just stickers that can be removed then that doesn't matter.

holiver

Could you buy cheaper from Germany if they are available?

cswitch

aren't the Miche quite a bit heavier...thats what I picked up from a recent conversation but I could be wrong.

LegendLust

cswitch wrote:

aren't the Miche quite a bit heavier...thats what I picked up from a recent conversation but I could be wrong.

Only around 100-150gr

Dizeee

I have taken some proper advice on the Bora's and am told to forget it, nobody knows when and if the wheels are coming and I am not going to be one of those who pay, wait and nothing happens so they are out.

I have been recommended ENVE's, again, so I have looked again. They are more than I want to spend but everyone says they are the best wheels you can buy.

I have also been looking closely again at the Campag Bullet CULT which seems to fit the bill and for a price that I can live with.

Its a nightmare, I am never usually this indecisive!

ugo.santalucia

Dizeee wrote:

I have taken some proper advice on the Bora's and am told to forget it, nobody knows when and if the wheels are coming and I am not going to be one of those who pay, wait and nothing happens so they are out.

I have been recommended ENVE's, again, so I have looked again. They are more than I want to spend but everyone says they are the best wheels you can buy.

I have also been looking closely again at the Campag Bullet CULT which seems to fit the bill and for a price that I can live with.

Its a nightmare, I am never usually this indecisive!

The best you can buy is clearly not a clincher... so if you want the best you have to repeat yourself that you want tubulars until you are convinced. Deep section clinchers have a place in FLAT triathlons and iron man, other than that they are show-off wheels. If you want a pair of show off wheels, get the ones you like the look best. The Bullet look rather dreadful.
Why have you not considered Reynolds yet? They seem to me a decent price, look fab and they are safe to ride on... what's not to like?

napoleond

I'd get the Wheelsmiths, they really are great wheels (I have some 50mm and 60mm tubs and some light alloy wheels)
If you have to have the boras at a later date you could sell them with no issues but I suspect you'd just keep them...

Dizeee

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Dizeee wrote:

I have taken some proper advice on the Bora's and am told to forget it, nobody knows when and if the wheels are coming and I am not going to be one of those who pay, wait and nothing happens so they are out.

I have been recommended ENVE's, again, so I have looked again. They are more than I want to spend but everyone says they are the best wheels you can buy.

I have also been looking closely again at the Campag Bullet CULT which seems to fit the bill and for a price that I can live with.

Its a nightmare, I am never usually this indecisive!

The best you can buy is clearly not a clincher... so if you want the best you have to repeat yourself that you want tubulars until you are convinced. Deep section clinchers have a place in FLAT triathlons and iron man, other than that they are show-off wheels. If you want a pair of show off wheels, get the ones you like the look best. The Bullet look rather dreadful.
Why have you not considered Reynolds yet? They seem to me a decent price, look fab and they are safe to ride on... what's not to like?

So you think a wheel upgrade is not worth it? I hear a lot how much a deeper section can really benefit in terms of aeroness and therefore average speeds. I do a fair bit of riding, and even at this time of year can hold over a 20mph average on a 30miles ride with some lumpy bits chucked in. Surely a deeper more aero rim that takes off over 20mph will provide me with some gains?

napoleond

I assumed you wanted them for racing. If it's just for leisure riding, I'd not bother.

gweeds

Dizeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Dizeee wrote:

I have taken some proper advice on the Bora's and am told to forget it, nobody knows when and if the wheels are coming and I am not going to be one of those who pay, wait and nothing happens so they are out.

I have been recommended ENVE's, again, so I have looked again. They are more than I want to spend but everyone says they are the best wheels you can buy.

I have also been looking closely again at the Campag Bullet CULT which seems to fit the bill and for a price that I can live with.

Its a nightmare, I am never usually this indecisive!

The best you can buy is clearly not a clincher... so if you want the best you have to repeat yourself that you want tubulars until you are convinced. Deep section clinchers have a place in FLAT triathlons and iron man, other than that they are show-off wheels. If you want a pair of show off wheels, get the ones you like the look best. The Bullet look rather dreadful.
Why have you not considered Reynolds yet? They seem to me a decent price, look fab and they are safe to ride on... what's not to like?

So you think a wheel upgrade is not worth it? I hear a lot how much a deeper section can really benefit in terms of aeroness and therefore average speeds. I do a fair bit of riding, and even at this time of year can hold over a 20mph average on a 30miles ride with some lumpy bits chucked in. Surely a deeper more aero rim that takes off over 20mph will provide me with some gains?

If you want real gains spend £1500 with a good coach.

ugo.santalucia

Dizeee wrote:

So you think a wheel upgrade is not worth it? I hear a lot how much a deeper section can really benefit in terms of aeroness and therefore average speeds. I do a fair bit of riding, and even at this time of year can hold over a 20mph average on a 30miles ride with some lumpy bits chucked in. Surely a deeper more aero rim that takes off over 20mph will provide me with some gains?

at 20mph the aero advantage is in the 4-5 Watt ballpark. Assuming you can churn out 280-300 Watt for quite a long time, make what you want of it... if you use a calculator you can plot how faster you will go on average... I suspect not a lot

LegendLust

Dizeee wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Dizeee wrote:

I have taken some proper advice on the Bora's and am told to forget it, nobody knows when and if the wheels are coming and I am not going to be one of those who pay, wait and nothing happens so they are out.

I have been recommended ENVE's, again, so I have looked again. They are more than I want to spend but everyone says they are the best wheels you can buy.

I have also been looking closely again at the Campag Bullet CULT which seems to fit the bill and for a price that I can live with.

Its a nightmare, I am never usually this indecisive!

The best you can buy is clearly not a clincher... so if you want the best you have to repeat yourself that you want tubulars until you are convinced. Deep section clinchers have a place in FLAT triathlons and iron man, other than that they are show-off wheels. If you want a pair of show off wheels, get the ones you like the look best. The Bullet look rather dreadful.
Why have you not considered Reynolds yet? They seem to me a decent price, look fab and they are safe to ride on... what's not to like?

So you think a wheel upgrade is not worth it? I hear a lot how much a deeper section can really benefit in terms of aeroness and therefore average speeds. I do a fair bit of riding, and even at this time of year can hold over a 20mph average on a 30miles ride with some lumpy bits chucked in. Surely a deeper more aero rim that takes off over 20mph will provide me with some gains?

You can average 20mph for the whole 30 miles?

Dizeee

Yup. Often longer disances and / or faster.

napoleond

Dizeee wrote:

Yup. Often longer disances and / or faster.

Get racing then!

nibby

To the OP. I'm just as confused as you looks like the aero 50 wheelsmith tubs with a bit of decent coaching is the way to increase the av.speed?

I think the main thing is deciding why you want to upgrade your current wheels then go from there?

ugo.santalucia

nibby wrote:

To the OP. I'm just as confused as you looks like the aero 50 wheelsmith tubs with a bit of decent coaching is the way to increase the av.speed?

I think the main thing is deciding why you want to upgrade your current wheels then go from there?

If you want to increase speed, train harder, possibly with fitter guys and maybe seek advice on how to train. Throwing money at carbon wheels and aero bits and bops is a defeating attitude...

nibby

ugo.santalucia wrote:

nibby wrote:

To the OP. I'm just as confused as you looks like the aero 50 wheelsmith tubs with a bit of decent coaching is the way to increase the av.speed?

I think the main thing is deciding why you want to upgrade your current wheels then go from there?

If you want to increase speed, train harder, possibly with fitter guys and maybe seek advice on how to train. Throwing money at carbon wheels and aero bits and bops is a defeating attitude...

Totally agree.

But he might want to go fast and look the part at the same time Nowt wrong with that and those aeor 50 tubs from wheelsmith do look the part

sloppyschleckonds

Available in any finish as long as its UD Matte

LegendLust

nibby wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

nibby wrote:

To the OP. I'm just as confused as you looks like the aero 50 wheelsmith tubs with a bit of decent coaching is the way to increase the av.speed?

I think the main thing is deciding why you want to upgrade your current wheels then go from there?

If you want to increase speed, train harder, possibly with fitter guys and maybe seek advice on how to train. Throwing money at carbon wheels and aero bits and bops is a defeating attitude...

Totally agree.

But he might want to go fast and look the part at the same time Nowt wrong with that and those aeor 50 tubs from wheelsmith do look the part

The lad's already pretty fast.

nibby

LegendLust wrote:

The lad's already pretty fast.

He is, so let's say he's already got a coach and he's at his potential re fitness and he's wanting to know if upgrading his current wheels (which Im not sure what he currently has?) will increase his speed for general overall riding, say a fast club run.

He might not race or want to race, just improve his own performance stats.

And also wants the wheels to look good.

Is there an answer? And he might not want any of the above I'm just reading between the lines/ guessing

on-yer-bike

How many feet of climbing in that 30 miles? Cat 1 speed if you are on your own.
Paulo's right get the WS to satisfy your impatience then buy the Boras and sell the WS or keep them as winter wheels.
The Boras will come with pads and QRs and bags if thats a deal breaker.

ugo.santalucia

on-yer-bike wrote:

How many feet of climbing in that 30 miles? Cat 1 speed if you are on your own.

Don't be silly, I averaged 20 mph on my commute home yesterday with touring tyres and 50 or so sets of lights (mostly green or jumped).

Dizeee

Ok ok whoah there!

Firstly, having had this argument loads of times elsewhere, I am not interested in racing. No I am not scared, and I have gatecrashed a couple of handicaps for fun, but, most of my riding is done around having two kids, working 24 hour shifts as well as a wife who does the same. I have very limited windows of time, rely on commuting to work by bike and can rarely commit to any time on a weekend or weeknight, therefore racing just isn't on the radar. If I do things I do them properly, and all that would happen is frustration at being unable to attend events.

So, what I do is around 150 to 200 miles a week combined commuting, club runs and solo runs, depending on what I can commit to around kids and shifts. I use my entry level aluminium all year round, and have an aero carbon bike for summer and decent weekend runs. I am currently at around 1500 miles for the year and am already on my winter bike am seeing some good averages. I find they translate amazingly well when I get on my summer bike, so I am just wanting to upgrade the wheels on that 1) For aesthetics 2) For weight all be it I realise very small and 3) Because I have never owned a decent set of wheels and after 3 years of road riding at around 7000 miles per year, I think I am now ready for some.

So, I won't be expecting / wanting to be that much faster, although it would be nice if when travelling at around 25 mph I notice an increase in wheel efficiency. I would also hope my pace would make it more worthwhile for me to get a pair. I have had coaching before, my W/Kg was around the 4.4 mark last year although I no longer bother, as luckily I ride with some great guys, most far fitter and stronger than myself, and so I pick up a lot from them. Some of them race at a high level.

I am far from the fastest rider, but I am fairly confident in what I can do, so, it's definatley time for me to upgrade what is supposedly the most worthwhile upgrade of all. The bike is a De Rosa Carbon currently on stock Fulcrum Quattro's at 35 mm depth.

ugo.santalucia

In fairness you can't post a thread about carbon clinchers and expect sensible advice... it is bound to derail in a MTFU kind of way...

sloppyschleckonds

on-yer-bike wrote:

How many feet of climbing in that 30 miles? Cat 1 speed if you are on your own.

Was it Tempo pace?