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Out-of-saddle climbing on turbo trainer

mechanismmechanism Posts: 891
I'm looking for opinions on an out-of-saddle turbo trainer climbing workout as I couldn't find much information on the internet. Is this something people do?

With the front wheel elevated, and after a warm-up, the workout I've created goes a bit like:

2 x 5 mins out-of-saddle/1 min seated
3 mins recovery
3 x 2 mins out-of-saddle/30 secs seated
3 mins recovery
6 x 1 min out-of-saddle/30 secs seated
3 mins recovery
10 x 30 secs out-of-saddle/10 secs seated

Cheers.
«13

Posts

  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    One word - why?
  • NeXXusNeXXus Posts: 854
    Probably a good reason nothing exists on the internet.
    And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.
  • Imposter wrote:
    One word - why?

    Same reason as any training - to get better. That's was the idea anyway.
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    If your aim is to get better at doing out-of-saddle exercises on a turbo, then those sessions are spot on. If your aim is to improve fitness, then I would be more inclined to focus on seated time/intensity based efforts.

    Riding out of the saddle on a turbo bears almost no similarity to doing the same on the road.
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,784
    I rarely climb out of the saddle and only resort to it if I hit a very (for me) steep incline. I, like the OP, want to be more comfortable out of the saddle and I've tried to work on that on the turbo. I've found that when I do climb out of the saddle my HR rises pretty rapidly.
    What I've started doing (and this is only made up stuff, no science) is...
    After warming up I put the turbo (a Tacx with 10 resistance options) on #10 and go into my hardest gear...
    I go for 5 minutes standing, then drop the resistance to #9, another 5 minutes and drop it to #8, another 5 minutes and drop it to #7. At the end of that my legs are really hurting and my HR is well elevated. The downside is that during this my cadence is low and I'd like to raise that a bit.
    i find getting into a high(ish) cadence standing very hard.

    As I said, this is just me experimenting. However, since starting this I have found climbing out of the saddle out on the road a bit easier and natural.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • jgsijgsi Posts: 5,038
    All sounds like a gym spin class gone out of control
  • Dabber wrote:
    I've found that when I do climb out of the saddle my HR rises pretty rapidly.

    Everybody's HR goes up when standing. It's really just an indication of standing and nothing else.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,784
    Dabber wrote:
    I've found that when I do climb out of the saddle my HR rises pretty rapidly.

    Everybody's HR goes up when standing. It's really just an indication of standing and nothing else.

    Yes, I realise that but one of the things I wanted to try and do was to work through an elevated HR whilst standing and become accustomed to it.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • NeXXusNeXXus Posts: 854
    Dabber wrote:
    Dabber wrote:
    I've found that when I do climb out of the saddle my HR rises pretty rapidly.

    Everybody's HR goes up when standing. It's really just an indication of standing and nothing else.

    Yes, I realise that but one of the things I wanted to try and do was to work through an elevated HR whilst standing and become accustomed to it.
    You could always elevate your HR while sitting down :lol:
    And the people bowed and prayed, to the neon god they made.
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,784
    NeXXus wrote:
    Dabber wrote:
    Dabber wrote:
    I've found that when I do climb out of the saddle my HR rises pretty rapidly.

    Everybody's HR goes up when standing. It's really just an indication of standing and nothing else.

    Yes, I realise that but one of the things I wanted to try and do was to work through an elevated HR whilst standing and become accustomed to it.
    You could always elevate your HR while sitting down :lol:

    I do that regularly :D:D:D
    But I find it more "distressing" when my HR starts to escalate and I'm standing :(
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    Newsflash: it's the same HR - seated or standing.
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,784
    Imposter wrote:
    Newsflash: it's the same HR - seated or standing.
    Yes, but the body position is different and handling the elevated HR feels different to me and I'm trying to get used to that feeling of discomfort whilst standing. For instance, I am much more aware of my arms than when I am seated.
    If none of this feels any different to you... fine. You obviously don't need to try and make an improvement. I feel I need to get used to handling it when standing up so I'm experimenting on ways to try and improve.
    At the end of the day I'll probably still stay seated most of the time but it would be nice to have more options.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    Your bike is fixed on your turbo, right? Or do you have some kind of new, flexible turbo which allows the bike to move around under you - like it would if you were really out of the saddle?

    The point I'm making is that you cannot replicate true, out of the saddle riding on a turbo.
  • Imposter wrote:
    Your bike is fixed on your turbo, right? Or do you have some kind of new, flexible turbo which allows the bike to move around under you - like it would if you were really out of the saddle?

    The point I'm making is that you cannot replicate true, out of the saddle riding on a turbo.

    There is such a thing, I believe - the Rock'n'Roll - don't remember the brand
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    The Kurt Kinetic you mean - it doesn't move nearly enough to make it worthwhile..
  • twotyredtwotyred Posts: 822
    Kurt Kinetic Rock and Roll

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/91746710?
  • Imposter wrote:
    The Kurt Kinetic you mean - it doesn't move nearly enough to make it worthwhile..

    Never tried one so I've no idea though the video does indicate a reasonable amount of movement. I'm really not bothered though because I only stand on the turbo to give my sorry censored a break from being sat in the same place for an hour or two.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • imposter2.0imposter2.0 Posts: 11,729
    Imposter wrote:
    The Kurt Kinetic you mean - it doesn't move nearly enough to make it worthwhile..

    Never tried one so I've no idea though the video does indicate a reasonable amount of movement. I'm really not bothered though because I only stand on the turbo to give my sorry censored a break from being sat in the same place for an hour or two.
    Likewise - although I rarely spend longer than an hour on the turbo anyway..
  • dabberdabber Posts: 1,784
    Imposter wrote:
    Your bike is fixed on your turbo, right? Or do you have some kind of new, flexible turbo which allows the bike to move around under you - like it would if you were really out of the saddle?

    The point I'm making is that you cannot replicate true, out of the saddle riding on a turbo.

    I agree with you on that and that is definitely limiting.
    “You may think that; I couldn’t possibly comment!”

    Wilier Cento Uno SR/Wilier Mortirolo/Specialized Roubaix Comp/Kona Hei Hei/Calibre Bossnut
  • Imposter wrote:
    Likewise - although I rarely spend longer than an hour on the turbo anyway..

    Believe me, I'd rather not but needs must when the weather (snow and ice) dictates. 4 hours of high resistance climb simulation last winter was mind (and censored ) numbing.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Great thread, would read again. 3/10
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • Great thread, would read again. 3/10

    Well that contribution has dragged it up by its boot laces (as usual).

    I always smirk when I see your signature - it's so ironic
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Great thread, would read again. 3/10

    Well that contribution has dragged it up by its boot laces (as usual).

    I always smirk when I see your signature - it's so ironic

    Can you link your 'weight loss/ muscle' thread again? How tight are your jeans nowadays?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles

  • I always smirk when I see your signature - it's so ironic

    I know your cycling knowledge is limited, but you do know it's a Lance quote don't you?
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • mamba80mamba80 Posts: 5,032
    i m with MRS on this, SS your contributions are rarely worth reading, just one liner put downs or jibberish.

    Standing workouts (if you think you need them) like Imposter said, are better off done outside.
  • frisbeefrisbee Posts: 691
    Contador speaks about his out of the saddle training in this interview, he seems to go for duration instead of intervals. The amount of lean doesn't actually look that much.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vya4EgIX4lw

    Amazing when he starts playing at the end.

  • I always smirk when I see your signature - it's so ironic

    I know your cycling knowledge is limited, but you do know it's a Lance quote don't you?

    Met the guy, rode with him and have a personally autographed copy of "It's Not About the Bike"

    As I said, your signature is so ironic.
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • Great thread, would read again. 3/10

    Well that contribution has dragged it up by its boot laces (as usual).

    I always smirk when I see your signature - it's so ironic

    Can you link your 'weight loss/ muscle' thread again? How tight are your jeans nowadays?

    2 sizes smaller
    ROAD < Scott Foil HMX Di2, Volagi Liscio Di2, Jamis Renegade Elite Di2, Cube Reaction Race > ROUGH
  • bahzobbahzob Posts: 2,195
    OP: If you want to train this way and enjoy it ignore most of the useless comments above.

    As far as I am aware none of the contributors are especially good at climbing, either seated or standing.

    I've done 100s of climbs and overtaken 10000s of riders, many failing spectacularly when they get out of the saddle.

    They look like agony in slow motion, struggling to use brute strength to muscle one leg up over the top of the pedal then pausing briefly before trying to do the same with the next. Every sinew is stretching to breaking point and their faces are a rictus of pain.

    They are utterly different than Contador or the like. As with so much else if you want to ride like them then you need to train to ride like them, not just assume it will happen as if by magic.

    The best training ofc is on a real hill but you can practise on a turbo. What you suggest is along the right lines but I think doing minutes out of the saddle is a bit OTT. Even the best will rarely spend that amount of time, they will stand to kick a lead or get up an especially tough section but then sit down. For 5 minutes I would suggest something like 30s-60s at the start, sit for 3 minutes then 30-60s at the end, which is a bit like what you will do on short hill.

    The key thing though is to focus on style. It should feel as if you are dancing on top of the pedals with your weight centred over the bars with just small hip shift doing the weight transfer that provides the extra power. Your arms should be fairly relaxed, mainly for balance with most of your weight going through your feet. It's shifting your body all over the place and try to use your arms for strength that wastes energy and causes especially large HR spikes (HR standing will be greater than seated but not hugely).

    Try to apply power through as much of the stroke as possible. One issue with standing is that you try to stamp the pedal down hard making for very spiky power delivery. This is tiring. Be aware of the pressure on the soles of your feet, this should feel smooth, not jarring.

    You should get a feel of whether you are doing it right by how much the turbo is rocking. Ideally it should be as static as possible.

    Good luck, keep practising. If you do I'd guess you will comfortably be overtaking those that don't.
    Martin S. Newbury RC
  • bahzobbahzob Posts: 2,195
    edited February 2015
    frisbee wrote:
    Contador speaks about his out of the saddle training in this interview, he seems to go for duration instead of intervals. The amount of lean doesn't actually look that much.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vya4EgIX4lw

    Amazing when he starts playing at the end.

    Great link, thanks. Nice to see someone actually trying to be helpful. Amazing to hear him talk about doing 20 minutes out of the saddle. Still think that's a target to aim for rather than start doing from the beginning.

    Also nice to see even he swaps to a compact for the especially steep mountains of the Giro. As even he says climbing seated saves energy and you only want to stand when it's your choice and you want to attack. Many of the failed climbers I mentioned earlier are doing so because they have no choice due to them having inappropriate gearing.
    Martin S. Newbury RC
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